A Martial Victory...so far.

[Van Canna]

TSD, good questions/comments. The first question for us is ‘what do we really know about violence’?

“Experts” study and experience violence_ that is what sets them apart, much to our chagrin.

Let’s take one such expert _ in my book

Martial arts instructors do the best job they can at tailoring their instruction to their PERCEPTION of violence.

Most self-defense drills are practiced at an optimum distance where the attacker must take at least a half step to contact. This gives techniques like blocks enough time to have an effect. You rarely have this time or this distance in an assault.

No, this is not a diss on kumites as they are an important piece of the puzzle.

[Van Canna]

What do we teach, how and why?

Whatever technique you choose to teach must still work if the threat is close enough to touch your head with his elbow. The Threat chooses his location, usually to minimize the victim’s ability to move. Give some thought to how your technique will work if there is no room to turn or step.

How much of this do we really practice?

[Van Canna]

We go through our dojo workouts and go home with a bunch of assumptions.

You say>> WHAT is Van talking about? Here is the same expert, widely admired

Most martial artists train “to fight” and never define exactly what “fighting” is or look at their assumptions, their system’s assumptions and the presumed goals of the system. Without an honest assessment of your assumptions, and a critical look at LE goals, it will be difficult to adapt your skills to the needs of the students.

[Van Canna]

But don’t we have ‘deadly techniques’ in our Uechi arsenal?

Of curse we do. Techniques are potential deadly tools. But can we really use them? And what defines use?

The expert

If you don’t know a technique well enough to make it work on a larger, stronger and angry person, don’t try to teach it.

How do we ‘train to know’ this in the typical dojo workout?

[Van Canna]

Read this again

Strategic Training_

Most martial artists train “to fight” and never define exactly what “fighting” is or look at their assumptions, their system’s assumptions and the presumed goals of the system. Without an honest assessment of your assumptions, and a critical look at LE goals, it will be difficult to adapt your skills to the needs of the students.

So what defines ‘assumptions’?

Assumptions are the most basic ideas, things you are not really aware of.

In martial arts or combatives training, your assumptions are what you think a fight is like.

In most MA, assumptions include equal or no weapons, single opponent of similar size who starts in front of you at an initially safe distance.

This is the perception that a fight is like a match.

Every technique, every tactic and strategy in a given martial art originates from that art’s assumptions. Analyze yours right now, and if you say “My art makes no assumptions” you are deluding yourself.

The goal is one of your assumptions. The goal is what you need to get done. It is how you win. It may be points, submissions, knock out, clean throws or a touch to a legal target area. Your assumed goals have a huge effect on what your style looks like, what it does.

Now we see what makes this person an expert, at least in my book.

But you don't have to buy it.

[2Green]

I can fill in some background on the scenario since I live near the area where the attack took place.
North Dartmouth is a depressed area with a high percentage of muggings, criminal drug activity, and now, even, a new strip-club, made over from one of the roughest country bars I ever played in.
This is not a schoolground roughhousing incident. This is an area where you really don't want to be walking alone at night, especially on the weekend.
Swarmings are regularly reported in the news.

Anyone attacked in this area has a good reason to be VERY afraid, and yet this girl was able to respond instantly and effectively, with none of the fear-induced handicaps, and prevailed over not just one, but TWO attackers.

I just think it's amazing, and I ask the question:
"What happened to all the supposed chemical cocktail effects which have been the subject of countless pages of forum posts, and analyses?"
Van, you know this to be a fact. I know some of the new posters would have to dig back to find them.

THIS is what I mean when I say the "experts" could learn something from this girl's experience.
Was it her training? Conditioning? Mindset? Adrenaline deficit?
What training conditions could create such a fearless, effective response in a 15-year old girl?
Wouldn't we all like to teach/learn it if we could?
I sure would!
--------------------------------------------------
BTW, message for JP:
You can call me Neil, I'm not Sensei, and far from it. I'm not even a Shodan.
When I started posting in '98 I was a white belt with "2 Green stripes" so I just took the name to post with.
Welcome aboard by the way!

NM

[Van Canna]

Anyone attacked in this area has a good reason to be VERY afraid, and yet this girl was able to respond instantly and effectively, with none of the fear-induced handicaps, and prevailed over not just one, but TWO attackers.

Neil, excellent point. Let’s start with this.

First_ To keep in mind that the ‘message’ of our discussions and those of the experts is one of tool box ‘optimization’ _ that martial arts don't work was never claimed.

This is hard wired

Body alarm reaction finds its highest expression in the "fight or flight reflex." The latter was first quantified and systematically studied around the turn of the century by Dr. Walter Cannon (Harvard)

This triggers a number of physio-psychological effects that arise during serious confrontations_ It's rare for them to appear all at once, but it's equally rare for none of them to.

Fear ‘handicaps’ need not be such. Fear is your ally if you know how to harness it.

[Van Canna]

First consider the individual_I.e., who the person is genetically, and what she has become because of training, makes the difference.

Each time danger present itself one's internal response is like an echo. Each and every persons echo is different. This is the area of defensive preparedness that needs to be trained and understood.

This is the root of defense. If one wants to be prepared, as much as humanly possible, one must know and understand oneself and one's instinctive actions and/or reactions.

One must understand that instinctive awareness is a message from one's mental understanding, via stimulation of elements of threat, danger and emotions.

[Van Canna]

Fear and the instinctive action or non-action resulting from fear is as individual as one's hair style.

Sensory input stimulates instinctive action/re-action. It simply depends on the programming and conditions of one's emotional charged mind.

It boils down to the root of individuality. If one falls apart, he has an instinct of helplessness (cause and effect of his life and programming).

It is very important to identify this energy. If it is negative and causes one to freeze with great fright, total surrender, then one has to work this out in his training.

One has to train with this energy, working with it. One should work with an instructor who understands what is going on inside and can work it out.

All in a matter of training and stimulation. Once one has dealt with this emotional stimulation effectively, it becomes one's greatest strength.

One of the unfortunate realities of training, is finding that instructor that can really help you get to the deep issues that inhibit your abilities to deal with a real situation.

So why did the girl not freeze?

[Van Canna]

Why do some people freeze and others do not?

Primary factors of freezing consist of basic elements of individual life and conditioning. As a threat presents itself the mind begins its cycle, looking for a correct route of action/conclusion.

During this cycle the energy, mind and body responds like an echo. The internal organs begins their acceleration, chemicals are stimulated. First and foremost one needs be aware and get to know this rush of energy before danger presents itself.

This is a mode of existence that has to be experienced. If does not have a working relationship with this rush of energy then he will surely freeze.

[Van Canna]

What do you ‘inject’ your mushin with? We always read about mushin. How to define it?

Freezing comes from lack of knowledge; the mind cannot cycle because it has no information about the subject. What the mind has never conceived it cannot perform.

To be prepared for threat one needs to understand and train with stimulation of these energies, learning to work with them, understanding them, no different than a workout with a kick or punch, only the focus is different.

[Van Canna]

So why _ Do some people freeze?

One "freezes" because when the rush of neurotransmitters, that cause flight or fight mechanism, takes over the body, the individual misinterprets the messages, like the body feeling light, muscles trembling, one can not stay still, flooding of information by the eyes, etc.

These physical responses processed as "hey I've never experience these, I don't understand what is going on with me". This leads to a false sense of not being in control and subsequent freezing.

Neil,
I suggest you buy “Sharpening The Warrior’s Edge”
By Bruce K Siddle.

“The Psychology & Science of training” A classic in the field.

It will answer most of your questions.

[Mary S]

I often walk with a girlfriend not far from where this incident took place. When she is startled it seems more often than not she hits me!!!! I told one day if someone was coming to attack us and she hit me, chances are I would side with the bad guy!!!

I don't know what's worse, someone clutching you or hitting you when "stuff" happens!!!

[Bill Glasheen]

I'll go find that reference of how adenaline is metabolized in females. The study was done by the army so those don't usually show up on google.

The sexes are different; this we know. But when it comes to very basic autonomic nervous system responses, they really aren't that different.

I'm getting to the point where I think that the adrenline response is probably way more sophisticated that is known right now. Kind of like a defcon system that tailors itself to different events.

It isn't more sophisticated than is known right now, Dana. Volumes have been written about it in the physiology literature long before the law enforcement and combat community got interested in it.

Some of the simplifications I see written in the popular literature are... simplistic, to say the least. But we shouldn't blame the body of scientific knowledge for a lack of understanding by those who wish to understand and use it.

The only thing new is putting ideas of basic physiology and psychology into practice. We know that there is a nature and nurture component to a neurohormonal response. We know that the response is multifactorial, and there is variability in the population. We know you can alter the nature of your response with time.

The cutting edge then isn't so much in the basic science as it is in the applied science.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

A few things come to mind in this discussion.

First... I don't see why it was necessary to take a positive story, and have this single anecdote become a judgement on a body of knowledge.

* Girl gets jumped. Girl kicks butt. Good guy wins.

* The survival stress response (SSR) changes our performance.

Those are two statements, and one doesn't necessarily say something about the next.

And on the judgement thing...

I'm in the long, slow process of trying to get a quality Rhodesian Ridgeback puppy. I missed out on a Feb 1 delivery litter, and am now looking at maybe June 1. My poor boys are anxious, but we'll end up with a decent dog after all is said and done.

Ridges are best known for two traits. First, they're the only breed of dog with a ridge of hair growing backwards over their spine. It gives them quite the creepy look should you ever think to confront such an animal. Second, they are THE ONLY dog bred to hold a lion at bay - and live to talk about it.

Let's think about that latter trait for a bit. They hold a lion at bay. This isn't chit chat talk, folks; it's real life. This South African breed (with Asian and European roots) was a companion for folks who either needed farms protected or who liked actively to go out and hunt lions.

It is also know that RR are a bit difficult to train. They can be "hard headed." If you don't know what you are doing, said dog can train the family rather than the other way around.

Think about that... Do you think there is any connection between being able to hold a lion at bay - and live through it - and being stubborn? How long do you think such a dog would last "on the job" if it did exactly what its master told it to do?

The points I'm trying to make are the following:

1) The girl was jumped. She kicked butt.

2) The girl trained, and felt her training helped in the outcome.

3) We weren't there. But of course it's fun to Monday-morning quarterback.

You see... To some extent, being able to survive in the field means being able to make snap decisions about what is or is not appropriate. Fixed formulas get you killed. The study of principles and scenario training will get a person to the point that they can think on their feet and have a better chance of surviving.

Or maybe we should breed the Rhodesian Ridgeback to be completely obedient. That'll sure help it when facing the lion, right?


Heeelll no! That's my ass out there facing the damn lion!!!

When Darwin's principles of natural selection talk, maybe we should listen.



- Bill