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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:04 pm 
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During my last training at the Koshukai - intent was brought up as something that alters your body and how your body will work.

I'm about 3/4 of the way through watching the below.

http://www.whatthebleep.com/

Image

The film brings up an interesting proposition about how the brain is affected by experience and intent. Basically it kind of boils down to "if you always do what you've always done, you'll program your body to be addicted to being that way."

What's kicking around in my head right now are thoughts around the intent we form in our minds during training. And the intent you hold for your training partners.

How would it affect your training if you changed your intent for your training? How would it change the training of your dojo mates? How would it change who you are outside the dojo?

If your training feels stagnated - perhaps it is time to look at your thoughts about your training. If your development feels limited - what are you allowing to limit you?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:55 am 
Agreed Dana

I often beleive many folks cant because they convince themself how hard things are

how many decades it will take ....

And on the other hand Intent , Intent should lead all physical movement , it makes an amazing difference .

And this is a common theme to chinese martial arts IMHO .


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 Post subject: Try the Right Way
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:03 am 
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There are some similar philosophical/pedagogical precepts in the Indtroductory material to the yoga book I'm using.

Quote:
I cannot overemphasize the importance of trying the right way. It isthe how you try that is the single most important factor in the benefits you receive. The fact that you cannot do the postures perfectly , according to the directions in the book and the beautiful pictures of my students , should be of no consequence to you. These directions and the pictures are your ultimate goals for the postures. If you try hard today, apply your concentration one hundred percent, follow the directions step by step, and use your strength where called for, then you are doing a perfect posture for you for today. This is what it means to try the right way. You give a one hundred percent effort in all aspects, and you receive one hundred percent of the benefit medically, physically and mentally.


These words may well be experienced if not proven, more inspirational than solid informational.

The book was initially published with photographs in 1978. He has then and now pictures of two women students who have followed his routine and surprisingly the women look as youthful and robust now as they did in the 1978 exercise photographs.

From discussion with my son, I believe that Master Thompson is a student of and an advocate of energy medicine where much emphasis is placed upon imaging and intention and he shows applications to karate in his seminars.

My own teacher, Sensei Martin, gives few direct corrections, believing that proper modeling and explanation of techniques is adequate for most students and that individual corrections aren't put into effect by the majority of students until they reach an appropriate stage of "readiness" at which time they will self-correct from the proper exposition of the techniques by the class instructor.

He also believes that if a student has the intent to improve and works long enough and hard enough the student will get better to the degree his body and physical limitations allow.

Actually, trying to correct 400 students on an individual basis isn't realistic. He devotes his time to working with his class instructors and teaching growth areas of his business as in his Certified Instructor Training Program and partnering as a consultant with other Uechi dojo owners.

In these contexts, "Try the Right Way" means doing the right things :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:42 pm 
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"Intent" is one of those words like "tone" ...even in a musical context "tone" has three distinctly different meanings, plus other meanings outside the musical context.

I find "intent" is like that too. There are different meanings and ways to interpret it and apply it to training.

Some apply it to there overall reason for training, some to the class mindset, some to a specific method of performing certain striking techniques, and some to the frame of mind while performing ANY technique or Kata.

~N~

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:23 pm 
Stryke wrote:
Intent should lead all physical movement , it makes an amazing difference .
I agree mate. A wise Uechi senior use to talk about dead fish kata...kata without intent. Without intent it's all crap. So I guess the question is how do we teach to lead with intent. I've got one dead fish in my group. I'm trying to get the wee carp to project his intent outward instead of focusing on inward. Ohhh no I'm a chister!!!!!!!!!!!! 8O 8O 8O


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:39 pm 
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We've often had students who do their katas in their head WAY too much. Not only does it not foster full awareness but it also slows them down as they listen to whatever they are telling themselves in their heads.

I've had some success in the past with playing some good hard music (metallica, taiko drumming, etc) for some folks. Sometimes that gets their motor going because they focus their brain on the music instead of themselves.

Could also just be performance anxiety.

I've also seen such folks (adults only mind you) be able to perform with less thought if they've...er..um..be primed with a beer or two before class.

Usually a TERRIBLE idea for safety reasons - but for those way too intellectual folks it sometimes shuts down the frontal lobes enough for them to just do their karate instead of thinking about their karate.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:35 am 
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I've also seen such folks (adults only mind you) be able to perform with less thought if they've...er..um..be primed with a beer or two before class.


Replace the beer with wild turkey and 151 and that sounds like some of the Silat and Kuntao training I've done with my teacher. Only in my case it was more about survival and less about getting out of my head....... Now I'm all nostalgic :D

-wes


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:17 pm 
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Here's a thought..

I'm not sure it is possible to have true "Intent" without a living breathing partner or opponent to inspire, resist, absorb and focus that intent on...

"Intent" without an opponent is imaginary intent, a performance, like masturbatory dry land swimming, and IMO quite different.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:45 pm 
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Quote:

Replace the beer with wild turkey and 151 and that sounds like some of the Silat and Kuntao training I've done with my teacher. Only in my case it was more about survival and less about getting out of my head....... Now I'm all nostalgic

Care to expand on that a little?

Sincerely,

Norm Abrahamson


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:13 pm 
Quote:
Care to expand on that a little?


Just that the training was pretty rough and I still carry alot of 'reminders' of it to this day - 10 or so years later. It was more a case of "whatever got you through the day..." than anything else.

-wes


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:24 pm 
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Visualization is a widely accept methodology for improving performance. Framing such practice as empty and onanistic is, IMO, out of step with modern research.

http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&se=gg ... 59&er=deny

Journal Article Excerpt

Quote:
Effects of Self-Administered Visuo-Motor Behavioral Rehearsal on Sport Performance of Collegiate Athletes.

by Bethany A. Lohr , Forrest Scogin
The provision of psychological skill training for athletes has become a widely accepted practice (Petrie & Diehl, 1995). Previews have led to optimistic conclusions about the potential for psychological skill training in sports (Feltz & Landers, 1983; Murphy & Jowdy, 1992; Vealey & Walter, 1993). One psychological skill package, visuo-motor behavioral rehearsal (VMBR), was developed by Suinn (1972). Components of VMBR include relaxation training, visualization or mental imagery, and performance of the skill in a simulated stressful environment. These components provide the foundation of most psychological skill training programs used in sport psychology applications.
VMBR has been the subject of several experimental evaluations. For example, Weinberg, Seabourne, and Jackson (1981) compared the effects of relaxation training, imagery training, VMBR training and a placebo control on karate performance. The VMBR condition demonstrated significantly improved karate performance and decreased pre-competition state anxiety. Hall and Erffmeyer (1983) tested VMBR with women intercollegiate basketball players. They found that VMBR lead to significantly improved foul shooting. Gray (1990) and Andre and Means (1986) found that VMBR training lead to improved racquetball and Frisbee...


------------
And I don't even want to IMAGINE the liability issues if somebody got hurt training after drinking. So that's also something to consider. Probably a much better idea to stick with the jamming music instead of the fermented grains.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:39 pm 
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While I'll agree with the concept of intent; as it is presented by Dana, I will thoroughly disavow the film "What the Bleep do we know?", as some seriously unscientific, new-age-hippie claptrap.
I wouldn't pesonally place any credibility in *any* of the items that that film portrays.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:40 pm 
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But are they really the same?

I agree with visualization but I don't think that visualizing is nearly the same as doing..and far less useful IMO.

Some Chinese forms are not taught with "intent" as I think is thought of here because they are not a rehearsal for a fight.. They are more basic in terms of training balance and mechanics and to some extent energy quality.

You can have "intent" perhaps in my system when working the wooden dummy but it just doesn't get close to the true manifestation of when there is a clash of wills.

Kind of like in Physics, where the cat is not real until you take the cover off the box..

The intent is not real until it manifests.. You can visualize it but it’s not yet real, it’s but a shadow of true applied intent in the moment of the clash of wills.

Why do many karateka show wonderful "intent" when doing kata but sometimes fall apart when facing a real person? Because these two "intents" are not equal.

Just my take…

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:31 pm 
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Nope - they're not the same - they're two sides of a coin. In visualization you picture the optimum outcome (which doesn't mean things go perfeclty - but that you are able to overcome all the things that you visualize as barriers to your success).

In practice you apply - and with a non-compliant partner you will must deal with things not going according to plan.

Then you go back to visualization - relive the interaction with the non-compliant partner and rehease an optimum outcome. You re-establish your self-confidence, your belief in your skill, and create an image of success in your mind.

Now you go back to partner work and do it all again. It should be a balanced approach that is an iterative process. However some may be unbalanced in their training. They may have all application and no rehearsal while others may have all rehearsal and no application.

If application was all that mattered then football players would only scrimmage. But they don't - they pull apart football and work the pieces and the drills in perfect form and then scrimmage - or play games...and then go back to practice.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:51 pm 
In theory, practise and theory are the same :D
In practise they are not :wink:


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