Seichin

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Postby Dana Sheets » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:49 pm

You hit HARD before you grab, nothing like is ever done in class, some good options are right along the stomach line or on top of the 11th rib aka "floating." You're not just standing around waiting for the grab to work.
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Postby MikeK » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:36 pm

I agree Dana, that's how you would execute the technique. It's a good technique as a double strike to the ribs and a grab, but you still have a dropping of ones guard to execute it. What this means to me is that the other person is mentally or physically out of the fight for that moment, or they are a real tomato can. It's this view that makes me think that the arm crossing move has got to have a little shock and awe stored in it to allow you to execute the next move.

A few ideas of what the crossing arms mean to me:
against a punch or single handed grab the arms crossing can be dropping the elbows onto the back of the hand, a cover against a straight punch allowing you to follow the other guy back continuing the sequence, a ready position that makes the other guy have to go around your guard giving you his center with enough shock and awe targets to get you to the next sequence.

Against a two handed grab or choke the crossing arms are dropping onto the nerves on the forearms. This moves their head right into the outward movement which could be strikes or thumbs into the eyes. That should soften them up for a split second for the rib attack and move.

These are just how I would or have used the move, others with more skill than me and actually know Uechi (unlike me) will have their own, and better, interpretations. 8)
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Postby MikeK » Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:10 pm

What, nobody with any more apps? C'mon folks step up and share what you know. :D
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Postby Dana Sheets » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:39 pm

Okey dokey - so Seichin to me is about making the uke twist and turn in front of you (for the most part 'cause there's always a backwards for every forwards)

So in the nekko ashi dachi morote skuiauke, aka hawk chases sparrow you have a chance to pick a limb and twist. If you pick the arm you can twist at the elbow or the shoulder. Hide behind your arm if they punch in some manner at head height and then use that arm to grind down and rotate under. When you lift up the teacup you're lifting their elbow which forces them to bust their balance and either jump or fall to avoid the shoulder dislocation....and then...
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Postby 2Green » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:04 am

...if someone is literally shaking their (right) fist at you (happened to me), the swallow-chases move (left hand high) will trap their (right) wrist/fist, the right hand (low) hand traps the elbow.

When you execute, their right arm is brutally twisted outward to your left, their right. (To their "outside".)
If they don't spin with you, (and really, they can't), then their arm is plainly dislocated.

Just one practical and very effective application I stumbled on, and have used.
The threatening posture of the right-hand fist in your face is quite common, and this is a very quick, sneaky and brutally effective counter that requires almost no strength to execute.
You can slide back while twisting if you want to be nice.
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Of course, in "practicing" where the attacker now knows what to expect, they will most likely just muscle their arm against you, and proclaim that it is an "ineffective technique..." as usual.

~N~
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Postby Stryke » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:33 am

So Neil did you actually cause a dislocation with this ?

not that I dont think it could work .
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Postby benzocaine » Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:58 am

Stryke wrote:So Neil did you actually cause a dislocation with this ?

not that I dont think it could work .


I think Neil is decribing a variation of Ikkyo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW7L2ALPTVU It's the easiest of all aikido /juijitsu techniques (IMHO).

I always thought of it as an imobilizer, or a way to throw. Interesting that a dislocation was cause by this. But anything is possible. :?
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Postby Stryke » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:36 am

yeah Ben kinda how I visualised it , just curious , always good to have substantiated information about these techniques .
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Postby Dana Sheets » Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:21 pm

nope - I don't think that's the app Neil is writing about.

Person 1 - right arm shaking fist in Person 2's face

Person 2 places left hand on the inside of Person 1's wrist and their right hand under Person 1's elbow

Person 2 sweeps their left arm in a counter clockwise circle while their right hand sweeps up.

Person 1's right elbow is now approaching the height of their shoulder - if they don't spin quickly - because the muscles were relaxed and not expecting the two opposing forces - the shoulder will begin to separate or the body will twitch to try to spin away.
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Postby Stryke » Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:47 pm

ah I got ya , inside , cool 8)
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Postby Stryke » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:18 am

As a side note I ussually use the lock when someone reaches under my arm or and underhook , instead of the lef hand you use your body to secure it .
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Postby benzocaine » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:10 am

Not that it matters... but it's still an ikkyo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yldXwoVv44
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Postby Stryke » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:21 am

Nah Ben I think there talking about a different move , the arm being bent and the pressure not on the outside elbow/tricep

Imagine your arm in Sanchin position then without moving your hand rotate the elbow in and up

no idea if I`m on track :roll: :? :cry:

maybe I got it all wrong now , man for a picture eh ... :lol:
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Postby benzocaine » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:02 am

Oh I see.

Very good description Strike. :)

I still like Ikkyo better :P
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Postby 2Green » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:08 am

"So Neil did you actually cause a dislocation with this ?

not that I dont think it could work ." Stryke.
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No, I did not. It was one of those tense situations which never exploded. He backed down, so I laid back. I don't think he ever realized what a vulnerable thing it was to do: shaking a vertical forearm in the face of someone with an obvious and simple counter. I was pretty calm and ready for him.

You're probably right: he would have twisted with it. But that's a lot of body mass to respond to a quick small-limb rotation.
Maybe the question is: could I have really dislocated his arm?

I don't know. It might depend on how fast the twist was, and how threatened I felt. I recognized this guy, but he was really drunk and ready to swing. If he had continued, I would have as well, I had a plan, he just wanted to hit somebody. I was closest to him.
Frequently, that's how it goes down.

Same bar, I encountered a drunken patron swinging a half-broomstick in the entranceway one afternoon as I opened the outer door to load in.

You never know when this crazy stuff is going to happen so you have to be aware/prepared all the time, while being outwardly relaxed and friendly.

~N~
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