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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:39 pm 
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Cooper said Wednesday that the eyewitness identification procedures used in the case against the three players were unreliable, that no DNA supported the woman's story, that no other witness corroborated it, and that the woman contradicted herself.

"Based on the significant inconsistencies between the evidence and the various accounts given by the accusing witness, we believe these three individuals are innocent of these charges," he said.

Cooper said the charges resulted from a "tragic rush to accuse and a failure to verify serious allegations."

However, Cooper said no charges will be brought against the accuser, saying she "may actually believe" the many different versions of the stories she has told. "We believe it is in the best interest of justice not to bring charges," he said.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:45 pm 
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CRYSTAL GAIL MANGUM
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Meanwhile hell is being raised over a dumb comment by a DJ.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:49 pm 
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That's cold, Mike. Funny, but cold... ;)

{note: Mike's earlier comment had a bite to it... 8) }

But you bring up an interesting point, and maybe it's fair to throw it on the table. Here we have FEMALE athletes at Rutgers all of whom are at the top of THEIR game, and they get dissed by some insensitive idiot. They were just words, but they were totally off the mark.

Yes, blacks need to get their own house in order before pointing an accusing finger at Imus. Don't go telling us what Imus shouldn't say if you don't clean up your rap music. But still... No excuse.

Meanwhile, his comment would have been more appropriate for the accuser. The only problem is that I think she is a very sick woman. I'm not so ready to damn her. My not-so-professional opinion is that she needs some major pharmacologic intervention. If you aren't going to charge her, I think you should be compelled to order some help.

My anger is all towards Nifong at this point.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:26 pm 
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Bill

What really bothers me is that the lives of these guys are pretty much ruined.

They are going to have to drag around the word "rapist" connected with their names for the rest of their lives.

That stigma is unlikley to go away regardless of the legal verdict.

How they can they get a fair shake at a school where 80 plus prof's all but convicted them before there was even a trial?
80 plus people that could be their teachers down the road--and 80 plus teachers that could and did act with utter impunity---if the Admins allowed this to take place without any form of censure or oversight--how they can they trust that the school is going to protect them from other such attitudes and actions in the future.

How can they get a fair shake at a school where the entire team was suspended without a hearing for something that never took place?

How can these guys apply for jobs and know for sure that the reason they don't get them is "fair" and has nothing to do with these baseless accusations?

Are the legions of pundents that rushed to judegement read to offer to formal apology to the people whose lives they trashed?

Is the coach that gave up his job going to get it back?

There should be no tolerence for abuse---but there should also be no tolerence for NOT doing a through, detailed and careful investigation prior to ruining peoples lives.

I hope those wrongfully accused get enough money from the City, State and University to last the rest of their lives---they very well might need it.

There is plenty of shame to go around--sadly enough.

The NAACP lost a chance to make a real stand---one of the things that Nifong did was to violate line-up proceedures that had been put in place after decades of abuse of black men.
In this case, since the accused were white, they seemingly didn't feel the need to stongly defend the SOP.

I have a good friend that lives down south--happens to be black BTW, he is seriously worried by the apperant lack of fairness in Durham--to paraphrase him:

"I'm worried BECAUSE these are well off white guys with money and lawyors and people that know how to handle the press, and they STILL got railroaded---if they were young black and poor, with some legal aid worker--they would be probably be rotting in jail right about now."

He was appalled--for similar reasons--at the rush to judge the accused in this case.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:38 pm 
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To your point...

Quote:
Duke suspended Seligmann, 21, of Essex Fells, N.J., and Finnerty, 20, of Garden City, N.Y., after their arrest. Both were invited to return to campus this year, but neither accepted. Evans, 24, of Bethesda, Md., graduated the day before he was indicted.

In the uproar over the allegations, Duke canceled the rest of the team's 2006 season, the lacrosse coach was fired, and a schism opened up on the faculty between those who supported the athletes and those who accused them of getting away with loutish frat-boy behavior for too long.



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- Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:07 pm 
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USA Today invites comments to articles. As you might guess, their forum editors and contributers are ... well ... a little less restrained.

I won't bore you with the nasty comments after an article about all this.

But I will quote one from their Forum.

thrillite73 wrote:

Hmm. So far, what I'm learned from many of you people is the following:

1. Black people are victimized by white people every day and white people sit around and laugh about it.
2. White people are victimized by black people every day and black people think it's about damn time.
3. "White" is the only race capable of racism.
4. Boys who enjoy watching women strip deserved to be punished severely - first by Jesus, and then by the judicial system.
5. Even though this particular one wasn't raped, men should feel free to rape strippers because, after all, they are strippers. (This rule also applies to scantily-clad women.)
6. If the legal system somehow fails you, (and in our Utopian society, it never should) the best course of action is to sue some more. Sue everyone!

Sometimes I'm embarassed to be human.
- USA Today


- Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:09 pm 
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Willfully suppressing potentially exculpatory evidence should, IMO, be a criminal offense. Disbarment alone is too weak a response. The system relies extensively on the ethics of prosecutors, and when a prosecutor for whatever reason crosses a line like that, they need to be held up in shackles as an example to help other ethically challenged prosecutors to resist the temptation to do the same.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:46 pm 
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Glad you liked it Bill, but it did have a little too much bite.

I think a lot of what's going on also plays into the entire victimization thing. Ms. Mangum is a victim, the Rutgers gals are victims and a certain type of male is the bad guy. The accusations against the the Duke boys are very serious for all involved and their identities should have been protected as much as Ms. Mangum's.

I am disappointed in the Rutgers gals. They kicked ass on the court and then started boo hooing over some stupid comment. So much for the strong woman thing. The proper response to someone who says something like Imus said is, F-You A-hole, eat me, or kiss my ass. You don't let them ruin your accomplishments or bring you down.[/quote]

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:13 pm 
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Yes, blacks need to get their own house in order before pointing an accusing finger at Imus


Wow. I mean just, wow.
The very idea that "blacks" are a collective group of some kind and that one segment of that group needs to address and counter-balance another part is pattently absurd to me. These are two completely unrelated events involving completely unrelated people.

An exaggerated example to highlight the absurity of this kind of argument would go something like this:
"White people need to get their house in order before they go pointing the finger at terrorists" (i.e. Oklahoma vs Osama).

Quote:
I am disappointed in the Rutgers gals. They kicked ass on the court and then started boo hooing over some stupid comment. So much for the strong woman thing. The proper response to someone who says something like Imus said is, F-You A-hole, eat me, or kiss my ass. You don't let them ruin your accomplishments or bring you down.


The "gals" are meeting Imus in person, face to face, to address their issues. I think that is a far better response than a string of invectives. And it is a good example of trying to elevate the conversation and maintain the public dialogue on why such language is still inappropriate in a cross-racial context in the broadcast medium. They are calling him out face to face - I applaud them for that - it takes courage to do what they're doing.

The original tenor of this thread is understandable - that an attourney saw an opportunity for self-promotion and took it at the expense of all involved. However, the extension of that idea that makes broad judgemental statements about racial minorities is, to me, appalingly inappropirate.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:54 pm 
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Actually the two events do kind of dove tail. Both involve lots of people looking to promote themselves.

I think the entire Imus thing is silly and once again involves a bunch of guys making something out of nothing. I still think a a string of invectives is the appropriate response and trying to raise gutter talk above what it is is just a waste.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:52 am 
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Jeeze, Dana. I post how many times, and you rail me for one statement? My back is still stinging...
Dana wrote:

Wow. I mean just, wow.
The very idea that "blacks" are a collective group of some kind and that one segment of that group needs to address and counter-balance another part is pattently absurd to me. These are two completely unrelated events involving completely unrelated people.

Perhaps I could have articulated that better, Dana, but I stand behind the sentiment of the comment.

Where was the outrage when rap artist after rap artist dissed their sisters? There was a deafening silence. Why? It's artistic freedom. It's free speech. It's part of the gansta culture. We wouldn't understand...
Quote:
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.
- Martin Luther King


Thank God for Bill Cosby speaking up...

But one Anglo Saxon says virtually the same thing, and suddenly we have a major clusterf***

Yes, I do condemn a large portion of society of any color that responds to such abhorrent speech with silence, only to tell someone who isn't the right color that they can't say that. As was stated on the USA Today Forum (with tongue firmly planted in cheek)
thrillite73 wrote:

"White" is the only race capable of racism.

Yea. OK. Got it...

Got it my arse. :evil:
Dana wrote:

An exaggerated example to highlight the absurity of this kind of argument would go something like this:
"White people need to get their house in order before they go pointing the finger at terrorists" (i.e. Oklahoma vs Osama.)

Ahem...

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I believe Timothy McVeigh is pushing daisies. But thanks for the softball. ;)

'Nuff said.

- Bill


Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:04 am 
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Sadly race does figure into these things, as people seem to get more outraged when a person of race A is accused of doing X to person of race B. But as long as something is happening and it's kept within one race everyone is happy and the story never makes the news or is gone within one news cycle.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:39 am 
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There is the Platonic ideal...

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And then there are all the human spins on the theme. Artists have a field day with the concept.

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- Bill


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:04 am 
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Bill - you know I care for you. However, I will stand by my reasoning that the line you posted was inappropriate. Please do re-articulate your point more clearly because I, for one, would like to better understand your sentiment. Your second post still did not help me understand how the reaction of the Rugers women should be tempered or related, in any way, to contemporary rap music.

The discussion about the Duke players and the prosecutor was one thing - and that seemed to be going well. However, the discussion on Imus and the Rutgers women was going in a direction that did not seem to be going well.

I do hold, unapologeticaly, high standards for discussion of race, racism, and intolerance, particularly on my forum.

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