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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:43 pm 
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Bill, you're point is apparently that even after these basketball players shut up Imus, they'll still have a gangsta culture keeping them down. Yes and no. They're just backetball players... they're not appointed or even self appointed social commentators or theorists or party bigwigs or anything. Why are they responsible for instigating a revolt against gangsta mainstream just because someone insulted them? I mean, really... when someone gets the N word on a schoolground, are they to find a soapbox and call out everyone who isn't behaving as best one can in society? Perhaps that's what Hillary Clinton might have done if she found herself in such a situation, what with public speech and policy practice and advisors to back her up. But I don't think anyone is in a great position to tell these girls what they should have said at their news conference. They carried themselves well; not everyone is a great public speaker even with much time to prepare--ask our President.

And would calling out gangsta rap really have solved their "strafish" problem? It's not as if they buoyed the artform, as you imply by invoking the starfish multiplication story.

"Because we've turned ourselves into a legion of mindless consumer zombies unwilling to make any material sacrifice whatsoever for what we supposedly believe in."

Don't worry boys, he's not insulting you, me, or himself... he's just bemoaning the situation / generalizing / restating what you've already said--that trashy popular culture is too popular. He just said "we" have to get our own house in order, and if "black people" can be felt to need to do so, so can americans, no? Lots of supporters of this gangsta stuff aren't black (the majority?) and until that point, none of THEM had caught any ribbing for it, as if being white and supporting it is somehow less bothersome than being black and supporting it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:02 pm 
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You're welcome.

Someone in my office just said that if Imus had made his remark yesterday, the day of the VA Tech shootings, nobody would have noticed.

This is the nature of the media beast. The...um...anti-cream rises to the top. The story that will get the most eyeballs, the most play, the most repeats and the most online clicks - this is the nature of a market driven free press.

The stories that inform our electorate, encourage community dialogue, social action, awareness, local action, and other silly stuff like that can usually be found 1/2 way through section B.

Shock jocks have gotten a pass by society because the edge of the envelope is titillating i.e. we know who we've supposed to be and how we're supposed to act and what we're supposed to say out loud - but isn't fun sometimes to listen to folks on the fringes say fringy things? So millions upon millons listen and advertisers want to be where the millions are.

People call for the resignation of shock jocks every day. They really don't get much sympathy from their detractors.

People call for the end of divisive, derisive, and demeaning lyics in rap/hip hop/thrasher/ you name it music every day. They really don't get much media coverage.

Media coverage isn't always a good measure of grass-roots efforts - but it is a better measure of the impact of those efforts.

I don't buy rap an hip-hop. I used to, but I don't anymore. I don't buy lots of things I used to as I align my wallet with my values. I work at a professional level to create media that shares and models positive stuff and then get it out to the people who can use it.

Today's broadcast, cable, satellite, and internet media is about finding the spark and fanning it with the flames of opportunity. That used to be called something good like being "resourceful" or "ambitious" but when your resoucefulness and your ambitions come at the expense and well-being of others (i.e. the previously mentioned prosecutor an the previously mentioned shock jock) the people at whose expense you benefited will likely seek their return.

Karma.

The greater dialogue is why do we take pleasure in misfortune, why aren't we simply able to be nice to each other, why do some among us seek to tear people down instead of bringing everyone up?

And I believe that to a great extent the human condition is improving. I think we're moving along in the right direction. The last three years have been a big bump in the road - but the 100 years before that are pretty impressive.

American's are hung up about gender roles and race/ethnicity. For lots of complex reasons that vary quite a bit between people and regions.

When I took my philosophy classes in college it boiled down to, for me, a rather simplistic view that:
We should strive to be nice. When we are not nice there are negative consequences.

That's why my tagline hasn't changed in over a year.

Did you show compassion today Mr. Imus?
Did you show compassion today Mr. Nifong?

and then, of course, since we are all (thanks Mary) responsible for and beholden unto each other...
Did you show compassion today?
Did I show compassion today?

It is something we are all still working on. And the loud and somewhat annoying diatribes launched in the press over these and similar issues will help us work it out. Slowly, I think, sometimes too slowly, but eventually.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:18 pm 
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Dana Sheets wrote:
The...um...anti-cream rises to the top.


That's a good one. I'll have to remember that :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:52 pm 
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Quote:
The greater dialogue is why do we take pleasure in misfortune, why aren't we simply able to be nice to each other, why do some among us seek to tear people down instead of bringing everyone up?


Because the thought process is "it's better them than me".

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:29 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Ian

I don't begrudge the Rutgers women. They have classes to go to. It's been a long season, and they've obviously kept their noses to the grindstone.

I do however find several things fascinating.

1) Much is made about race/racism - even in this thread. (We are often a mirror of the society around us.) Meanwhile, one of the targets of the invective said SHE was upset that more wasn't made of the use of the word "ho." The same theme was articulated repeatedly by the 3 generations of African American women interviewed by Hoda Kotke on Dateline last Sunday.

I totally understand. Is anyone listening to them? Unfortunately most have used the heightened alertness of the press on a slow news day to advance their personal agendas. C'est la guerre.

2) You turned my starfish metaphor into a pretty fishy story. No worries... Must be you didn't grow up on the coast. ;)

- Bill


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:12 pm 
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Bill Glasheen wrote:
Ian

I do however find several things fascinating.

1) Much is made about race/racism - even in this thread. (We are often a mirror of the society around us.) Meanwhile, one of the targets of the invective said SHE was upset that more wasn't made of the use of the word "ho." The same theme was articulated repeatedly by the 3 generations of African American women interviewed by Hoda Kotke on Dateline last Sunday.

I totally understand. Is anyone listening to them? Unfortunately most have used the heightened alertness of the press on a slow news day to advance their personal agendas. C'est la guerre.



Thank you Bill. That was exactly the point I was trying to make.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:21 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Faces in the (Rutgers) crowd

Image
#12 KATIE ADAMS
G | Jr. | 5-10 | Ogden/Ogden, UT



Image
#22 MATEE AJAVON
G | Jr. | 5-8 | Malcolm X Shabazz/Newark, NJ



Image
#5 ESSENCE CARSON
F/G | Jr. | 6-0 | Rosa Parks(Eastside H.S.)/Paterson, NJ



Image
#4 DEE DEE JERNIGAN
G | Fr. | 5-11 | East Chicago/East Chicago, IN



Image
#43 RASHIDAT JUNAID
C | Fr. | 6-4 | Camden Catholic/Chesilhurst, N.J



Image
#24 MYIA MCCURDY
F | Fr. | 6-1 | Winton Woods/Cincinnati, OH



Image
#10 EPIPHANNY PRINCE
G | Fr. | 5-9 | Murry Bergtraum/Brooklyn, NY



Image
#35 JUDITH BRITTANY RAY
G | Fr. | 5-9 | Aquinas/Bronx, NY



Image
#15 KIA VAUGHN
C | So. | 6-4 | St. Michael's Academy/Bronx, NY



Image
#21 HEATHER ZURICH
F | So. | 6-1 | Pascack Valley/Montvale, NJ


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:02 am 
I think the focus on a musical culture is a bit of a strawman too .

Yeah it`s not flash , and doesnt project a good image , but dont blame the artform but the foks buying it . Are we seriously suggesting censorship ?

they said similar things about elvis and the devils music .....

want to encourage hip-hop ... well keep complaining about it .


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:49 pm
Posts: 3519
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
Bill Glasheen wrote:
The following exchange occurred earlier in this thread.

Dana wrote:

Bill Glasheen wrote:

***
Yes, blacks need to get their own house in order before pointing an accusing finger at Imus ***

***


Wow. I mean just, wow.
The very idea that "blacks" are a collective group of some kind and that one segment of that group needs to address and counter-balance another part is pattently absurd to me. These are two completely unrelated events involving completely unrelated people.

It's difficult for some who haven't lived the life I've lived and seen what I've seen to understand what I (unsuccessfully) tried to convey with that one line (amidst many). It comes across as racist.

But I've never shyed away from speaking my mind because I know where my heart is and I know what I'm talking about. I'm just not as good at articulating it as I could be.

Jason Whitlock is a columnist for a Kansas City newspaper.

Image

I couldn't have said this any better. I'll step aside and let a better man take the baton.

- Bill

Quote:
Posted on Wed, Apr. 11, 2007

COMMENTARY

Imus isn’t the real bad guy

Instead of wasting time on irrelevant shock jock, black leaders need to be fighting a growing gangster culture.

By JASON WHITLOCK - Columnist


Thank you, Don Imus. You’ve given us (black people) an excuse to avoid our real problem.

You’ve given Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson another opportunity to pretend that the old fight, which is now the safe and lucrative fight, is still the most important fight in our push for true economic and social equality.

You’ve given Vivian Stringer and Rutgers the chance to hold a nationally televised recruiting celebration expertly disguised as a news conference to respond to your poor attempt at humor.

Thank you, Don Imus. You extended Black History Month to April, and we can once again wallow in victimhood, protest like it’s 1965 and delude ourselves into believing that fixing your hatred is more necessary than eradicating our self-hatred.

The bigots win again.

While we’re fixated on a bad joke cracked by an irrelevant, bad shock jock, I’m sure at least one of the marvelous young women on the Rutgers basketball team is somewhere snapping her fingers to the beat of 50 Cent’s or Snoop Dogg’s or Young Jeezy’s latest ode glorifying nappy-headed pimps and hos.

I ain’t saying Jesse, Al and Vivian are gold-diggas, but they don’t have the heart to mount a legitimate campaign against the real black-folk killas.

It is us. At this time, we are our own worst enemies. We have allowed our youths to buy into a culture (hip hop) that has been perverted, corrupted and overtaken by prison culture. The music, attitude and behavior expressed in this culture is anti-black, anti-education, demeaning, self-destructive, pro-drug dealing and violent.

Rather than confront this heinous enemy from within, we sit back and wait for someone like Imus to have a slip of the tongue and make the mistake of repeating the things we say about ourselves.

It’s embarrassing. Dave Chappelle was offered $50 million to make racially insensitive jokes about black and white people on TV. He was hailed as a genius. Black comedians routinely crack jokes about white and black people, and we all laugh out loud.

I’m no Don Imus apologist. He and his tiny companion Mike Lupica blasted me after I fell out with ESPN. Imus is a hack.

But, in my view, he didn’t do anything outside the norm for shock jocks and comedians. He also offered an apology. That should’ve been the end of this whole affair. Instead, it’s only the beginning. It’s an opportunity for Stringer, Jackson and Sharpton to step on victim platforms and elevate themselves and their agenda$.

I watched the Rutgers news conference and was ashamed.

Martin Luther King Jr. spoke for eight minutes in 1963 at the March on Washington. At the time, black people could be lynched and denied fundamental rights with little thought. With the comments of a talk-show host most of her players had never heard of before last week serving as her excuse, Vivian Stringer rambled on for 30 minutes about the amazing season her team had.

Somehow, we’re supposed to believe that the comments of a man with virtually no connection to the sports world ruined Rutgers’ wonderful season. Had a broadcaster with credibility and a platform in the sports world uttered the words Imus did, I could understand a level of outrage.

But an hourlong press conference over a man who has already apologized, already been suspended and is already insignificant is just plain intellectually dishonest. This is opportunism. This is a distraction.

In the grand scheme, Don Imus is no threat to us in general and no threat to black women in particular. If his words are so powerful and so destructive and must be rebuked so forcefully, then what should we do about the idiot rappers on BET, MTV and every black-owned radio station in the country who use words much more powerful and much more destructive?

I don’t listen or watch Imus’ show regularly. Has he at any point glorified selling crack cocaine to black women? Has he celebrated black men shooting each other randomly? Has he suggested in any way that it’s cool to be a baby-daddy rather than a husband and a parent? Does he tell his listeners that they’re suckers for pursuing education and that they’re selling out their race if they do?

When Imus does any of that, call me and I’ll get upset. Until then, he is what he is — a washed-up shock jock who is very easy to ignore when you’re not looking to be made a victim.

No. We all know where the real battleground is. We know that the gangsta rappers and their followers in the athletic world have far bigger platforms to negatively define us than some old white man with a bad radio show. There’s no money and lots of danger in that battle, so Jesse and Al are going to sit it out.



As much of an idiot Louis Farakhan is(i so spelled that worng)

one thing he is against is gangsta rap.

From what i understand, he thinks hip hop can influence the youth positivly, but in his mind is being abused.


Lots of black leaders look at 'gangsta' culture with disdane.


Id like to point out that Chapelle's humour seemed alot like a critique of black culture to me, just that he layed it on in a way that it wasn't obvious.

Hell in his interview with oprah he pretty much said he didn't like his own humour, well atleast how it was percieved.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:23 pm 
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People are right to wonder why the racism catches more flack than the sexism. But they haven't noted, unless I missed it, that the sexism was race tinged. When you use the term "ho," esp in conjunction with "nappy haired," you're using a word with lots of connotation. The strictest definition is about female sexual promiscuity, but the picture conjured up is of a scene from a "gangsta" video with african american, inner city women. I'm not sure how much attention the whole thing would have gotten if only sexist words without racial connotation had been used, but its quite a reach to imply that sexism and racism were tossed out in equal doses and only the latter got attention.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:37 pm 
Don't you think that it would be cool if no one really cared 8) 8) ?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:21 pm 
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No


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