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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:43 am 
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Location: London, Ontario
Yup, absolutely. Who said,"it's martial arts not macho arts?"

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:12 am 
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just a little bit more than your opponent can handle , and continually ramp it up .

I can spar with chldren and full contact MMA guys , and everything in between .


but if your not training mentally your comfort levels , and how to handle violence , your really not doing MA
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Yeah with all due respect we are not talking about you :) ..we are talking about women.......and there seems to be some misunderstanding somewhere :? :? ....As I've said you can do light no contact sparring and you can do hard full contact sparring...you can't really ramp either up :roll: ..it's either non contact or it isn't...obviously there are stages in the full contact scenario were your levels of contact will change if you are fighting a full contact match of if you are fighting for your life then your blows wil be thrown with a bit more venom................

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but of course this takes skill and control , and a respect/realisation that your not going to get snotty and knock someone out if you cant handle it , and a secure enough ego to say whoa back down I`m not comfortable .
Yeah totally agree here Respect should always be shown to everyone...................and I will always be polite with folks and even let the occaisional blow go as an accepted accident..it's just when folks step over the line and think they can take the p*ss..................Well I think you know what I mean :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:53 am 
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Okey dokey,

Let's get back to concrete suggestions for Norm to try out with his students.

Is having female students practice the stare-down a good idea? If so, then should they start at the standard American 3 feet away and then move closer? If not, then why?

Let's talk specifics.

I teach my students to look each other in the eye during all exercises, from day one, as I was taught by my teacher. I find that spending several minutes looking in the eyes during arm-rubbing is a great start to this training.

The instructor should monitor eye contact during all drills - particularly conditioning drills and pre-arranged drills with stronger, more experienced partners.
In this manner, when free-fighting is introduced, the student already has practice in this skill.

Part of intent training is simply learning how to sustain your intent over a period of time. This promotes tenacity, perseverance, and confidence.

There is the intent needed for the student to face a student they know has superior skill and power. There is intent needed for the student to push themselves out of their comfort zone. These are the beginning levels of intent needed in order to face an unknown attacker in an unfamiliar environment.

One of the things we do is we organize cross-school sparring matches once a quarter or so. In this way our students get to experience working with different and mostly unknown training partners. This has done quite a bit to promote confidence in the students. Even if the student is not the better fighter in the match, he or she comes away with more faith in his or her ability to negotiate the unknown.

Students need opportunities to audition themselves in different situations so they can learn what they need to do up in their minds to flip the switch and summon the courage face what may be uncomfortable, difficult, and painful.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:10 am 
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‘Turtling’ is ‘turtling’ IMO no matter what you're looking at.. Doesn't have to mean turning away either IMO.. When one person is overwhelmed by their opponent they often turtle, even in high level competition, you will see folks just cover up or any number of things that fall into this category, sometimes it’s even a tactic as when Muhammad Ali did this kind of thing in Ropeadope....

Not sure what the idea is of staring the opponent in the eyes..

As far as what to look at... We teach folks to think and see of the opponent as a ball of energy, to face this "ball" and to visualize the entirety of this mass, and attack it's center..

Another thing we have always said is not to get scared backward, rather, get scared forward... If this works in terms of tactics, as it does for us, then I think it can help.. Face, follow, attack and get scared forward.. Meaning when you get scared don't go passive; go offensive with it.


Oh, and I like Marcus' 'smile thing'...

Probably posted this long ago… I picked this up years ago from one of my teachers.. Always smiling, esp when challengers would visit the school.. Very disarming.. and is supposed to automatically release certain chemicals into the brain that aids in helping us relax and stay loose.. I have also used this on freaks trying to stare me down.. It works very well. Not sure how a big ol' smile would translate over for women used against someone staring at them, has to be just right... 8O But a confident smile, and awareness as I mentioned in another post is a powerful street threat deterrent..

I think from a distance breif polite eye contact is correct.. No goading..through emotional transmission IMO..

If they move in, then 'awareness eye contact' I think is correct.. It says, I see you coming and I am ready..

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:47 pm 
Yeah Jim it's a big subject and you see so many folks who don't address the problems that they may face.
With the staring thing.that's old Samurai stuff as well..............and there is a lot talked about it in Aikido.you are not supposed to look into somebody's eyes because they may steal your Ki :lol: ................It's rather like a Kiai.when somebody really good does one the windows rattle and the hairs stand up on the back of your neck............probably an old form of psychology :roll:

In my new job I get to deal with a lot of cases of domestic violence and speak with victims .usually women who've been beaten up by their men :cry: .............it's a bit of an eye opener..not nice a bit harrowing............and I think IMHO martial arts are not really doing as much for women as they should 8O


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:21 pm 
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Well I don't have much detail on other cultures in this regard, but in mine, only a willing participant to a fight (as in, we're definitely not talking self-defense) would participate in a stare down.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:24 pm 
It's a mistake to presuppose what will happen in any confrontation...........I have used the stare along with bad language etc...........it's a kind of warning a "Don't f*k with me " sort of thing......I did it against a really scary bad guy..although at the time my mother was dieing of cancer.so maybe another day I wouldn't have used it.......... .it works.I scared the guy sch*ttless :lol: ...rather like this sort of thing .the Hakka

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o0pv6k37yE

and this is only a rugby football game :roll:

We all have our own life experiences :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:37 pm 
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jorvik wrote:
It's a mistake to presuppose what will happen in any confrontation.


I'm not presupposing anything about what will ensue. I'm saying that if you do this and a fight ensues, it is not self-defense, which is legal. Rather, it's fighting, which is generally illegal. Nobody's going to buy the "I was staring him down to prevent a fight" argument.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:52 pm 
If you think like that it won't matter :lol: .because you will lose :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:43 pm 
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Stares can be used for different things under different circumstances, but it's always meant to intimidate the other person. Now the surprise could be how that other person will act towards someone trying to intimidate them.

Quote:
Is having female students practice the stare-down a good idea? If so, then should they start at the standard American 3 feet away and then move closer? If not, then why?


I don't care about participating in a stare-down contest with anybody. If I notice someone staring at me with bad intent, then I'm going to try to give him a quick once over, look for weapons to use, exits, his friends and a bunch of other things that I won't see getting into a stare-down with him. At least that's the plan.

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Last edited by MikeK on Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:43 pm 
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Yeah with all due respect we are not talking about you


it`s a thread about method , and how I approach it is a method , it`s how you build confidence , in anyone , so with all due respect Ray go pick on someone else , not interested .

there are degrees of contact and ruleset , you must overcome fear gradually . You cant ever hope to get over fear of contact, without contact .

I would of hoped that was on topic .

interesting thread all .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:52 pm 
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"it`s a thread about method , and how I approach it is a method , it`s how you build confidence , in anyone , so with all due respect Ray go pick on someone else , not interested .

there are degrees of contact and ruleset , you must overcome fear gradually . You cant ever hope to get over fear of contact, without contact .


I'm not picking on anyone 8O .but we are talking about women.and I guess physically weaker men.however interesting to say not many of the psychos of this world ever think they are weaker.even when they are :lol: ...as to contact.that's really a fool's game.nobody in their right mind wants contact with a knife :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:11 pm 
Thats why it needs to be relative Ray , weaker folks need more time to devlop either the skills or the physicality to deal with real force , confidence must be built , not though ignorance and avoidance , but by progression .

you cant swim without getting wet , you cant learn to fight without getting hit , but the degree is controllable .

confidence in real ability is the only sane answer to fear .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:42 pm 
Which is what I said :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:04 pm 
why cant we agree ? :roll: , apart from adressing your statemnt abut me Ray , i`m not arguing with you , just presenting my opinion .

what you actually said was

Quote:
As I've said you can do light no contact sparring and you can do hard full contact sparring...you can't really ramp either up ..it's either non contact or it isn't.


I`m saying you can ramp and increase gradually when you have respect/trust and a good attitude/ego .

Im` submitting progression/slight pressure and constantly increasing the comfort zone , until you get to a level real pressure can be applied . If you agree great , i`m sure in retrospect you can see that was my initial point .



but I`m done here , thanks for the thread . and it`s fine if you agree/disagree too .

But I am on topic .


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