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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:50 am 
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:agrue:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:46 pm 
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And if you look at the little balloon carefully - you'll see that they're just about saying the same thing.
:)

Uechi doesn't "hang out" in the control/submission place, Uechi likes to hang out in the soft tissue damage, brain rocking, bone breaking place.

But it could hang out there...you just leave off the end bits and close your fists when you hit.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:53 am 
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While i think uechi-ryu is a style for personal defense, im more leaning toward what Jim is saying.

Not that Fivedragons is wrong, but EVERY move for t3h D3&dl3y streets, can be used for compliance or put someone down without killing them.


A rear naked choke can put somone to sleep, or it can kill them.

An arm bar can force someone to move, or to break the damn arm.



A punch to the head is a punch to the head. Face rakes and eye pokes.....well if you can't hit someone in the face with your fist, then you can't hit their little eyes with your fingers.

Now if you practice with a pair of goggles................


Anyway, yeah. My point is pretty obvious and im sure you guys all know about it.

Statin the obvious.

In yer forums.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:42 am 
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From my point of view, I see it like this:

When you start training Uechi, you have to ask yourself what kind of person you are, and if you really want to go down the path of REAL WORLD self defense.

You have to stand in front of the mirror and ask yourself " Do I really want to train to break some drunk's leg because he's swinging a bottle at me?"

Do I really want to learn reflexes that could save my life, or my loved ones' life, even if those reflexes put the attacker in a wheelchair for the next 30 years?

Can I sleep at night, good with that? Can I actually follow through with that?

These might not be the same questions a person asks themself when embarking upon a career in professional fighting, where contestants, according to their own testimony on local radio talk shows, "rarely get hurt".
( This was in an actual interview where UFC-style fighters were defending their sport against protests of brutality.)


I think you have to keep the questions/answers in context with the expected application, and these are different in the ring and in the street.

In the street, things escalate much more quickly and uncontrolled, whereas in the ring there is a safety zone where your opponent's buds are not going to jump in while you're trapped, and kick your head in.

So the skills for street fighting are related to ring fighting, but not directly correlated.
In fact, lots of really good street fighters are NOT experienced ring fighters, nor are they experienced Martial Artists.

~N~

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:39 am 
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2Green wrote:
You have to stand in front of the mirror and ask yourself " Do I really want to train to break some drunk's leg because he's swinging a bottle at me?"

Do I really want to learn reflexes that could save my life, or my loved ones' life, even if those reflexes put the attacker in a wheelchair for the next 30 years?

IMO most TMA Uechi or no, are going to find it hard enough to take the guy out or just stop him (in a non deadly fashion) and survive, let alone "cripple" or "kill" the BG with their oh so 'deadly techniques'.. In many cases the moves folks may think are deadly are going to fall down (folly).. How have these so called 'deadly techniques' been tested and refined? How many 250-300 pound ex-convicts have we seen maimed or killed by a 130 pound TMA? :lol:

More often than not simple good techniques REALISTICALLY with stopping power, continuity, accuracy and purpose (see thread) is what folks need to train--and don't.. This is also a problem in Wing Chun, where folks will 'think' their deadly techniques are going to save them when in reality they should be thinking basics, like power generation and doing real damage with their basic tools, which they often neglect, because it takes much more "work", sweat and pain, than does simply applying their "death moves".. :oops:

The human body is very resilient and with few exceptions even the most "deadly arts" aren't going to be 'oh so deadly' (with the exception of weapon use [FC]), the real challenge for most folks being just keeping their art functional..

Again IMO, the basic tenent in CMA and related arts is what this thread is all about, balance/structure destruction to aid in threat destruction, which can help folks address the former--keeping their art functional.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:07 pm 
agreed Jim , good post . While having mindset is also important , technicaly I agree .


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:49 am 
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I agree also, the big problem is that a lot of folks lack the actual intent that MUST be present to make even the BASIC techniques work.

This is what I mean by "standing in the mirror", it's the act of evaluating yourself and your training honestly.

It can be very difficult to do.

~N~

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:21 pm 
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JimHawkins wrote:
A nice post.


The more we train and watch MMA, the more we all realize how true your post is. When I first started training, I thought a single punch to the face would easily KO someone. Well that was quickly debunked. I still thought that a full power elbow or knee to the face would destroy someone. Now I know that's not always true either. Hell, in Pride people get their faces stomped on by standing opponents with little to no hope of a bell saving them, and they still don't always lose. 8O


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:08 pm 
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Thanks guys...

Getting back to the topic..

Lets look at the wauke..

What's the difference between applying this movement or parts of this movement while simply standing in place (or even backing up) with applying this kind of movement while maintaining your ground connection and applying forward pressure or energy from the whole body AND arms? Note that one can change angles and use movement before, during or after contact with the opponent is made..

Perhaps Marcus, who I think has experience with using some of these concepts, can address this with some of his findings in application..

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:59 am 
Hey Jim , it`s night and day , makes the facing of Uechi make sense , angling and shearing , with contact and some forward projection every attack they do is the balance disruption .

every wauke is a trap/manipulation , every draw a manipulation both on the lead and rear hand , one hand covers two , all the good chi-sau stuff is there . Uechi is a chinese bridging art .


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:12 pm 
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TSDguy wrote:
JimHawkins wrote:
A nice post.


The more we train and watch MMA, the more we all realize how true your post is. When I first started training, I thought a single punch to the face would easily KO someone. Well that was quickly debunked. I still thought that a full power elbow or knee to the face would destroy someone. Now I know that's not always true either. Hell, in Pride people get their faces stomped on by standing opponents with little to no hope of a bell saving them, and they still don't always lose. 8O


I don't know.....

Often when two guys exchange, yeah no one goes out by one punch.

But often a big shot atleast floors the guy...depending on who's fighting.

Look at cro-cop and his fight with randleman, or GSP and Matt Serra.

They didn't see it coming, and went down.







I hope this doesn't happen with Mark Hunt. I love the guy.





NO I DO NOT SUPPORT THE ONE PUNCH VICTORY/KILL.


But a BIG right hand, especially if it's unseen by the victim/opponent/you, can end the fight.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:16 pm 
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Stryke wrote:
all the good chi-sau stuff is there . Uechi is a chinese bridging
art .

These days I call it, "Crash and Bash"... 8)

-------------------------------------------------

Re: the single strike thing..

I think that using good mechanics and generating good power can happen in a lot of different kinds of strikes other than a 'big right'... The key is to learn how to generate that power and apply that power.. And one way to do that is to get inside, take a strong position, make his position weak and then apply that close range power--connected fighting, like ground and pound but standing--crash and bash..

We used to say...We don't want to steal his balance, hit him and take him down...We want to steal his balance, hit him and hold him up for more.... 8) :lol:

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"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:00 am 
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These days I call it, "Crash and Bash"...


and I thought I was using your language ... and your using mine :roll: :lol: 8O


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:54 am 
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Here's a simple exercise:

Take your thumb or fingers and rip one of the eyes out of your head, squash it, and bite through the tissue that is anchoring it to your brain.

That might be a little crude, so how about we do something more user friendly?

Take your thumb and insert it between the muscle that runs up the side of your neck and the esophagus. Close your fingers around the back of this strand of muscle and twist.

Jamb your thumb or fingers up and towards the skull, just inside the hinge of your jaw.

Put your fingers or thumb down into the space between the top of your ribcage and your adam's apple.

Very gently, strike with your fingers or thumb at a 45 degree angle behind the adam's apple, towards the spine.

Take that nifty nukite thingie that doesn't have any real purpose, and stick it up above the adam's apple, towards the center of the brain.

Strike the adam's apple straight on or at a 45 degree angle with the edge of your hand, or an elbow, or whatever.

Strike the throat with the junction between your thumb and the index finger, close your fingers behind the esophagus, pull and twist. (Yeah, chamber your hand)

strike the side of the adam's apple with a hammer fist.

Place your palms on the jaw and back of the head and rotate, bend and twist in three dimensions. At the point of most resistance, do the same thing in reverse.

Have fun with it, and be sure to incorporate it into your chi sao and push hands tournaments. :new-bday:


Last edited by fivedragons on Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:11 am 
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For some added fun, why don't we place our finger tips behind our earlobes and press upwards and towards the nose. Be sure to hold it there as long as you can, and push really hard. We can use the other hand for cool things like punching and stuff.


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