developing a martial mindset

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developing a martial mindset

Postby Shana Moore » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:58 pm

What kind of mindset do you feel is correct for proper practice, and how do you develop it in yourself and/or your students?

I'm looking at this in two ways:
There is the application mindset of a willingness to take action and do violence, if necessary, and how far you will take it. I am told and believe this is something that each person must consider and decide for themselves, in advance, so you won’t freeze. Each person must make peace with their own motivations and know what they are capable of doing, both physically and mentally.

Second, there is what I call the mindset of “martial mind”. This is characterized by alertness and an mental processing of tactics…a weighing of actions/reactions. This has often been referred to as being a sheepdog instead of sheep. This can be as simple as always being aware of your surroundings and it can be as complicated as always looking at a new move and the many ways it can be used as a block, a strike, a set up for another move, etc. There is currently a good discussion on “blocks” in Van Canna’s forum that demonstrates this viewpoint of looking at each move as a tool that can be used many ways. The discussion also talks about how one move can be used to pull your opponent off balance for a follow-up move.

This may come as a surprise to most people on this forum, but the general populace doesn’t think in this manner!

This can be good and bad, and we aren’t here to discuss the pros/cons of the martial mind. I simply am interested in how you develop these two mindsets in yourself, and if applicable, your students.

I'm particularly interested in if there are different tactics for teaching men and women.
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Postby maxwell ainley » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:26 pm

Hi Shana ,

This is really a starting point for what was said in the other thread " motivation /moulding " . a mindset is next to hopeless if we can't or arn't getting good attendance .
Ok they may have a violent aggressive mindset even with no M.A. training ,or a mindset that can meet pure violence head on .
At the other end of the spectrum we have meek and mild folk .

Personally I am not looking to produce either type mentioned so far, I am using those two types as a example ,the first needs control ,the second backbone .

With my three year sanchin process I can deal with both types ,one will develop control the other a backbone ,to meet violence the first type will operate better with added control ,in other words this way of training will highlight the control element ,for the other type it will highlight the backbone .
To do this type of study you need control ,you have to bring yourself under control to do it ,fot the other type you need back bone to stay with it , this back bone is produced by having to look in the mirror at ones self ,on a constant basis ,and not give in ,to not give in produces a spirit .

We are now developing a mindset .

Max.
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Postby Shana Moore » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:26 pm

Max, that addresses the agressive mindset, but it doesn't directly address the martial mindset of awareness and analysis...unless I'm missing the point? Or is it really as simple as "it's all in Sanchin"?
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Postby hoshin » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:18 am

i feel kata is a good method for the first mindset you mentioned, the willingness to do violence. there is a quote from a famous Roman stategist that says somthing to the effect "men who are drilled in war practice are assured victory while those who are not are mearly sheep draged to the slaughter" " Rome owes its greatness in war to no greater method then drill"
kata is our drill. after you have the actions memorized you should start to put feeling and emotinal content in your actions. visualize what you are doing, as if in a real combat situation.
the key to kata is muscle memory thru repitition as well as digging deep in your soul for the will to fight ,,,again.... and again... and again.
sometimes it is difficult to bring these feelings to the surface, especially for women who have repressed violence emotions all there lives. i think doing your kata alone after everyone has gone home with the lights down low is a good method. give yourself time to bring the emotion to the surface, then when you got it DO THE KATA.
the feeling that you bring up could be anything. anger,,fear,,confidence what ever you need to work on. again the key is to bring this into your kata thru repitition.

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Postby Stryke » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:52 am

I think both mindsets are related , it is encouraged by taking self responsibility and preparing onself to act deliberately with there convictions .

part of being truly responsible is accepting the realitys of violence and or obligation to protect ourselves and our beleifs if no other option .

this is all about being aware and tactical and accepting , but also largley of knowing oneself and ones convictions well before its needed .

so yes being able to drop the hammer , and being aware of what goes on around us and inside us .

this is a bigger topic than most dojos would comfortably approach .
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Postby Shana Moore » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:16 pm

Thank you gentlemen. I'm finding the decision mindset & awareness mindset are developing thru practice...the tactical mindset is just very new way of looking at things for me...I'm not sure if that's a woman thing (difference in processing), a learned behaviour, or just a "me" thing. I suspect a bit of all 3, but mainly the 2nd.

I'm just looking for ways to develop that tactical/reactive ability.
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Postby maxwell ainley » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:43 pm

Shana ,

I was working from the bottam upwards ,rather than go straight to a specific mindset ,which 99 times out of a hundred is undergoing change anyway .
In the early stages of the Kanbun method you arn't really into analysis ,you have enough on your plate attempting to stay with the method ,so really we are building grit ,this grit as transferable properties to the fight ,we are also sharpening the senses rather than analysis ,everything I am talking about is getting the student to absorbe or internalize whats being presented ,this is simple yet its totally overlooked ,so its not talk ,but a critical component to a fight ,observation .
So the mind state is building observation skills rather than analysis skills at these stages .

If you attempted to pin this mindstate undergoing development down ,you would fail,it would be more cloud like sort of moving shifting to keep pace with the observations imposed upon it via the methodology .
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Postby maxwell ainley » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:06 pm

This is a difficult methodology to carry out during this type of training ,most just can't resist talking through key factors they feel are vital .
A important feature and one thats overlooked is tongue control ,whats this to do with mindstate ? everything .

Each concept I am presenting overlaps and takes on board another " The students had to follow Kanbuns movements in absolute silence "
A martial mindset is in the making .

Remember Kanbun is not playing about with the students mind here, oh no There are enemies lurking ,and he as to get them prepared quick ,direct methods are vital ,he as to come from the bottam upwards all the theory in the world is of little use at this point .
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Postby hoshin » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:18 am

______________________________________________________________________
the tactical mindset is just very new way of looking at things for me
_______________________________________________________________________
Shana, could you explain this a little more for me. can you describe "tactical" .
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Postby hoshin » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:29 am

_______________________________________________________________________
looking at a new move and the many ways it can be used as a block, a strike, a set up for another move, etc.
_______________________________________________________________________

these are to me tactics. however i tend to file these in a different mental folder then mindset.

in a real encounter i might ..might have a pre thought about what i am going to do ..
" if this guy so much as flinches i am going to shin kick and smash his knee"
but i dont think you get that luxury very often. i think most of the time its just pure instinct and what ever comes out is what comes out.
that is why "drill" is so important. if you do an action 900 times and its now hard wired into your system is gonna come out ( if you dont freeze).
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Postby Shana Moore » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:55 am

hoshin wrote:______________________________________________________________________
the tactical mindset is just very new way of looking at things for me
_______________________________________________________________________
Shana, could you explain this a little more for me. can you describe "tactical" .


I think you got the idea, but it's not just an "in the moment" mindset.

For me, consciously thinking about a particular move, such as a wauke, and thinking of many different ways/targets/instances where I can use it...or thinking of what it will do to an opponent and how I can use that to possibly "set up" another move or combination.....those are simply new ways of thinking for me.

I don't want to simply learn the motions...I want to understand the applications, possible applications and develop the ability to put things together as needed...to go beyond the kata.

In other words, I think kata are many things, but one is to help you develop the muscle memory you speak of, and another is to consider multiple scenarios for a particular movement...and it's considering those scenarios that is so new to me.

I think many people, but particularly the majority of women, are simply not taught to think in this manner...and I think that is likely a shame, as it can probably apply to more than just martial situations....it's sorta like playing chess...that's the closest analogy I can put to it in my currently limited experience.

I think I simply need to keep practicing and learning, and this will...in part...come with time. I was just seeing if there were other ways for me to develop this mindset, as I think it's an important part of the learning process. Where form becomes function and function becomes instinct...I hope that makes sense, as that's my current way of seeing this....like many things, it may change... :lol: :roll:
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Postby Shana Moore » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:59 am

maxwell ainley wrote: I was working from the bottam upwards ,rather than go straight to a specific mindset ,which 99 times out of a hundred is undergoing change anyway .
In the early stages of the Kanbun method you arn't really into analysis ,you have enough on your plate attempting to stay with the method ,so really we are building grit ,this grit as transferable properties to the fight ,we are also sharpening the senses rather than analysis ,everything I am talking about is getting the student to absorbe or internalize whats being presented ,this is simple yet its totally overlooked ,so its not talk ,but a critical component to a fight ,observation .
So the mind state is building observation skills rather than analysis skills at these stages .


maxwell ainley wrote: ...tongue control...Each concept I am presenting overlaps and takes on board another " The students had to follow Kanbuns movements in absolute silence "
A martial mindset is in the making .


I am sighing and grinning at the same time...my biggest lesson, and this shows up time and again, is learning patience...and letting things develop.

Thanks Max, this makes a great deal of sense, and perhaps I should stop trying to analyze and simply do for a while..... :oops:
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Postby hoshin » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:12 am

_______________________________________________________________________
my biggest lesson, and this shows up time and again, is learning patience
_______________________________________________________________________

i am glad you brought this up. the study of application is a life long study. always learning somthing new about an action you may have been doing forever. if you are new to martial arts it is maybe helpfull for you and anyone who reads these pages to remember that some folks here have been doing this stuff for 30 to 40 years. the various applications and insight has developed over those long years. dont try to jump to the end of the ride. its the sights, stories and memories along the way that make the ride worthwhile.
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Postby maxwell ainley » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:41 pm

Shana,

Yes patience is a aspect of the martial mindset ,no question about that ,to work out tactics in the first place requires patience .
You can't really escape this ,unless your sensei or others are working tactics out for you ,in other words they are spoon feeding you .

There are lots of concepts etc, but you will know in your heart when you are truly ready to embrace them .Take Sanchin for a instance its the most advanced concept in uechi yet new comers start with it ,but it will always be at your unique level ,but it also allows our fundamentals to be worked , the martial mindset as to evolve through these fundamentals to evolve onwards to explore tactics etc.
Sanchin as fighting tactics ,most people rush by sanchin to get at the next set of tactics ,or the syllabus demands this and you don't know any other way , but then you may get brought back to sanchin later on to bring more scope and understanding to it ,these are really tactics of learning .

In the opposite method I always post about we don't rush by sanchin ,so we have to embrace a differant set of learning tactics ,to do this or embrace these learning tactics more patience is required than would be the norm ,this is part of tactics to learn this way .

Modern life lacks patience .
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Postby Shana Moore » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:52 pm

maxwell ainley wrote: Yes patience is a aspect of the martial mindset ,no question about that ,to work out tactics in the first place requires patience ...
Modern life lacks patience .


My club teaches sanchin at every level, & I think this is why.
I do feel my practice (and new daughter) are doing what years of adult life have not fully accomplished...patience is dawning....

Perhaps I simply lacked something worth and requiring said patience before?
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