your current thinking on conditioning

[Bill Glasheen]

i have been witness to a Uechi senior discussion where they were all saying that conditioning is out dated and useless.
that kind of thought worries me that the pengulem has gone to far in the other direction, yes over doing anything is bad, but not enough can be just as bad. as these seniors teach the next generation there is the real posiblity that conditioning would be a lost art.

It's up to this generation to explore the art of conditioning, hoshin, and to put the evidence in evidence-based. Like bodybuilding, powerlifting, Olympic lifting, weight training, and plyometrics, I suspect it will evolve over time.

The torch has now been passed on to us. Let us not **** up the opportunity.

- Bill

[MikeK]

however.
i have been witness to a Uechi senior discussion where they were all saying that conditioning is out dated and useless.

They could be right depending on what their goals are and what they're training consists of. Often the kind of conditioning karateka do is because of what karateka do. If you do some type of arm pounding then you have to condition your arms to do it, if you punch a makiwara then you have to condition yourself to do that, if you're going to use the bony part of the arm or leg to block then you have to condition that, and so on. It's mostly the same for any martial art or other sport, you condition for what you do and if you don't do X or Y then there's really not much point in conditioning for X or Y. So for them conditioning is out dated and useless.

IMO Karate is a little different than other sports as karate training methods are mostly in support of doing more karate without any real end game or specific goal. Not necessarily a bad thing to have no end point but I do think it leads to why karate seems to be focused on conditioning.

[Bill Glasheen]

IMO Karate is a little different than other sports as karate training methods are mostly in support of doing more karate without any real end game or specific goal. Not necessarily a bad thing to have no end point but I do think it leads to why karate seems to be focused on conditioning.

Hmm...

I was with you up until the "no end game" part.

I don't know about you, Mike, but I started martial arts to learn how to fight. Serendipitously I found a good lifestyle (a "do") that's more fun than running (booooring) and doesn't require a team like baseball. But I've kept the martial in my martial art. I keep the "Will this work??" acid test in my brain front and center with most everything I do (technique wise).

It is true that there are myriad approaches. If I'm going to grapple, I'll spend more time conditioning my neck. If I'm going to compete, I'm not going to worry so much about conditioning my hands as I'll be wearing gloves. And if I'm going to be practicing a striking art and don't want to be a shinguard weenie, then I'm going to condition my shins.

But Uechi Ryu isn't a sport style like Olympic TKD or BJJ. Yes it is classified as a "traditional" martial art, but only in that we are preserving a piece of history. And that history? Hand-to-hand combat from the Fuzhou region around the time of the Boxer Rebellion. There is at least a LITTLE martial in that martial art.

- Bill

[jorvik]

Quote
"Ray, on a tv serial (the one where the two guys go out for a few days training in a style and then fight..yeah, whatever...fun watching though) I saw some wing chung work with a wooden stand used to condition the forearms...isn't that similar to arm pounding? I wholly agree with you that you should train to usage...but it seems you are training to what you use, not what you might have to block with? I'm seeing some conflict in what you're saying, so please help clarify...and I'm missing something! (although, hoshin just reiterated my question and phrased it better...so clarification might be good for all!) "Shana

I am not saying don't do conditioning. I personnally don't see that much difference in Wing Chun or Uechi...I think the two styles can be wonderfully complimentary, I think that Wing-Chun fills in a lot of the gaps in Uechi and that Uechi offers a solution to some of the things that Wing-Chun does
When attacking,
but I am not an expert in either style.
As to the Wooden Dummy.that can be very hard or very soft depending on who teaches you or it can be soft and morph into hard. At this present time I have found a great teacher and frankly will pretty much do what he says to develop my art, if he says the dummy is hard then so be it

Now the reason some of my posts may seem contradictory
I grew up in a very rough area, and had lots of fights when I was a youngster. Strangely,( because I never intended) it I ended up working for the police/prosecutions department..and for the past 20 years or so I have had acces to information that the public don't get to see.......this gives me a very definite stance on things, and I will say things that may upset some people.

Seperate from doing martial arts I also just look at crimes, and I speculate on what I would have done, or how I could have taught somebody to cope with such a situation. Very often, in fact you can really say " All the Time" with violence that the perpetrator will see and try to exploit an advantage and they will use violence in a very casual and unfeeling manner.....to me that has always been very hard to comprehend, but it is pretty much a fact .....also appearances are deceptive. the scariest people have the nicest faces, very strong people don't always look very strong........and there are a thousand and one other possibilities to consider .................so what I do for myself ( and share with you here )

is optomise, and say what I believe are the most important things to do
I've already covered some ground, but there are some other points to make.....the first is that not all hats fit....there are things that I KNOW work for me. Based on personnal experiences...some folks have said that you shouldn't punch, your hands will break etc....but I have been in lots of fights and punched and my hands didn't break. What they say is Anocdotal, what I say is based on fact, My Fact in my life..what works for me may not work for you....Now conditioning....Yeah sure sounds like a fine idea.but if you ask me honestly do tell you how to defend yourself, I can't say that conditioning is that important......... I believe that being fit and strong is more important, partly because it helps you have a better life even if you don't ever have to use your martial arts, I believe that Kata and tradition are important because they show creativity and develop calm and they show you how other people developed these things in the past...and really I'm only just scratching the surface ........my first teacher used to tell me that karate taught you how to fight like a psychopath without becoming one.that's pretty much how I think

[MikeK]

I don't know about you, Mike, but I started martial arts to learn how to fight.

But did you take martial arts because fighting in some shape or form was inevitable? I don't mean believing that a fight was inevitable but knowing it was coming. That's one end point that separates one type of training from what we currently do in karate(generic usage). Let's face it, a lot of exotic conditioning is possible because we have time and a safe environment to do it. How much conditioning do you think someone gets in when training time is short. Also what kind of conditioning is done.

Serendipitously I found a good lifestyle (a "do") that's more fun than running (booooring) and doesn't require a team like baseball. But I've kept the martial in my martial art.

Hmmm, interesting. How do you keep the martial in your martial art if it's the equivalent of running or baseball?

[Bill Glasheen]

But did you take martial arts because fighting in some shape or form was inevitable?

Yes.

I grew up small for my age, Mike. Then when I hit 17 and was my maximum height, I weighed only 145. (I had entered college a year early, and was running on the track team.) Between being small and letting my freak flag fly (so to speak...), I was a target. A lot. It sort of comes with the territory in adolescence - particularly if YOU are the one who screwed up the curve in Algebra class. God was I glad finally to mingle with smarter people!

Basically I wanted to be left alone. Martial arts was about not having to worry about whether or not the redneck at the place I worked (cabinet factory) during the summer was going to beat the crap out of me because I had a "Impeach the president - Now more than ever!" bumper sticker. (A play on the Nixon "Re-elect the president - Now more than ever!" campaign slogan.)

After I quit cross country and started martial arts, I gained 30 pounds of lean muscle mass in one year. My physical appearance changed dramatically. My self confidence was brimming. And people finally left me the hell alone. I may have been a freak, but now I was a bit of a scary-looking freak.

So yes, Mike, I started martial arts with self-defense as THE raison d’être. And it served its purpose without me ever having to throw a single punch.

Let's face it, a lot of exotic conditioning is possible because we have time and a safe environment to do it. How much conditioning do you think someone gets in when training time is short.

More than if I hadn't done any at all.

Also what kind of conditioning is done.

I started with a hard Japanese style, similar to Shotokan. We did some striking on a pad - enough for me to learn how to hit w/o my wrist buckling. My instructor beat on us. A LOT. Especially the students he liked. God did I know it. Crazy MF Japanese... I sometimes wonder if he was taking WW II out on us. His whole modus operendum was about mindset conditioning. Van may understand what I'm talking about here.

Uechi came to me 2 years later. And we started off right away with the forearm pounding.

It didn't take long to learn how to take a hit SOMEWHERE... Basically I knew I wasn't going to fold on the first punch. That's a great start for someone who started as a bit of a weakling.

How do you keep the martial in your martial art if it's the equivalent of running or baseball?

I've literally taught thousands over the decades I have taught, Mike. So I know both from personal experience and from teaching that those outside activities (in my case baseball, track, and music) help a LOT in building the foundation for martial arts. In baseball I learned to hit and catch things coming at me at high speed. In track I developed speed and leg coordination. In music I learned about timing.

Martial is martial. But you can't do squat if you can't walk and chew gum at the same time. God do I know as a teacher... The most teachable people I've worked with have played music, done gymnastics, ridden horses, played baseball, done wrestling, etc., etc. And some of them made fantastic fighters.

I STILL cross-train in baseball, Mike. Even in my fifties, I go out to the batting cage in Goochland and practice in the 80 mph cage. Both right and left handed. It's great for timing, for eye-hand coordination, and for learning how to relax the arms and let the core do the work.

And now I TEACH music (to number 2 son) to continue work on my timing. I make him do his pieces to the metranome. Of course dad has to show him how first...

God there are students that I WISH would pick up a musical instrument. Aaarrrggghhh!!!!

- Bill

[Shana Moore]

First, apologies for the long response...trying to tie several comments together in a short time/space.

my first teacher used to tell me that karate taught you how to fight like a psychopath without becoming one.that's pretty much how I think

Ray, I've actually heard this thought before, but I don't feel experienced enough in the martial arts to comment. I can only say that it certainly does apply to the better MA's I've seen. I'd say the best MA's fight with mad skills, yet carry themselves with an internal system of honor and confidence.

Thanks for the clarification on your posts and your background. Interesting! Sounds like a good discussion over a good ale or stout sometime!
<><><>

Mike and Bill, interesting discussion on why you do martial arts and what external skills feed into your practice. I can see how any sport or activity that encourages hand/eye coordination and synchonizing differing but complimentary actions would aid your practice. In all things, I think the most important thing is to do it for yourself and for your own enjoyment of what you do. If you are doing it to impress others, or because someone told you to do x, then you will not gain as much from it than if you were doing it because of your own internal motivations.
<><><>
On the conditioning, i think Mike and Hoshin bring up some interesting points:

i have been witness to a Uechi senior discussion where they were all saying that conditioning is out dated and useless.

Hoshin,
In my humble - - and young - -opinion, I think conditioning is still included in a lot of training..otherwise, we would not be having this discussion, but I fear that it may not have as much focus as it appears to have had in the past. Obviously, I cannot speak from experience here; I can only speak from what I have read and the little I have done myself. I do think two things are at work here though: general lack of time (I know this is contrast to Mike's post, which I'll adress in a moment) and the rise of McDojos.

On the first, I think that some folks have more time to try esoteric hobbies and such. For them, Mike's point to having the time for the "exotic conditioning" applies. But our society in general is in a "do-do-now-run-run" mode that often leaves little time for the focused and daily practice that I believe true conditioning requires. In hearing the discussions, doing the research, and practicing some things on my own..I'm finding that I don't make any progress if I don't do something every single day...doesn't have to be a lot or crazy intense...but daily does seem to be required. Then again I'm still figuring it all out, so that may be lack of technique as well.

On the McDojos, I think there are so many pay as you go and fast track schools out there, which do not focus on the techniques, the back knowledge and history, etc. I'm not sure conditioning, as we are speaking here, has a place in those types of schools. So, more in depth schools and dojos exist, but they are not the majority, and hence the feeling that conditioning may be going away.

As to the discussion with Uechi seniors...hmmmmmm...i really have no opinion on that as of yet.
and...just to be a slight pain...still waiting on comments on those other systems

Mike,
I'd like to get more clarification on your comment

karate training methods are mostly in support of doing more karate without any real end game or specific goal. Not necessarily a bad thing to have no end point but I do think it leads to why karate seems to be focused on conditioning

Are you referring to folks who just do karate to have a hobby or something to do?
...folks who do karate simply to get better?
...folks who do karate to simply improve their knowledge?
...folks who just start because they want to "get in better shape" or "be able to protect themselves"?
all of the above?

Because I'm interpreting your coments as referring to most folks who, I believe, start for many various reasons, but continue because they find it a)feels good, b) gives them confidence c)helps them get in shape, etc. In other words, for whatever reason folks get into karate (to kick X's butt, for example), I think the reasons folks stay are more vague and varied, and...hopefully....are mainly becuase they enjoy it.

So please let me know if I'm waaaaay off base.

FWIW, I do believe that simply practicing a martial art should include development of a mindset that makes you more of a sheepdog than sheep. Otherwise, you are simply going through motions and not learning an adaptable skill. I also think you cannot advance if you do not develop that mindset of scenarios, options, etc. So, if someone is doing it just for fun/fitness, that might not be a goal, but if someone is doing it for progression as well as fun/fitness...then...hmmm...maybe i just answered my own question on your point...but please do clarify (stream of conscious writing can be so odd! sorry!)

Looking forward to everyone's responses!

[jorvik]

Quote
[b][b]"Ray, I've actually heard this thought before, but I don't feel experienced enough in the martial arts to comment. I can only say that it certainly does apply to the better MA's I've seen. I'd say the best MA's fight with mad skills, yet carry themselves with an internal system of honor and confidence.
Thanks for the clarification on your posts and your background. Interesting! Sounds like a good discussion over a good ale or stout sometime! "[/b] Shana [/b]


I love ale and stout ( but my actual favourite beers are from the Czech Republic ) but if we ever meet I'll buy the first round

With martial arts I still struggle now,............. people who use it on a day to day basis I suppose are different..but I am not one of those ( and frankly I don't want to be one either )...I like a quiet life .
The point that I was trying to make is that as a youngster we don't know how to fight but we fight people and get a certain amount of skill....then when we are older we do martial arts to advance our skill .....but does it?
often times they tells us to reject the things that seemed to work so well

now I've done lots of different martial arts............but I look back to when I was young and I know what worked for me then.........and many of the things that folks say now seem in total contradiction to my experience...........the whole concept of "Conditioning" seemed mad when I first encountered it.....Yeah, Learn to take a punch .NO learn to throw 5 for his one.......the guy who first introduced me to these ideas was a black belt who had trained in Okinawa..yet I beat him in sparring, although he was the first person that I'd ever sparred with ...........people who street fight, violent criminals do not think like this....only martial artists think like this....and that is our problem
So I think a little thought is necessary

[Shana Moore]

good points Ray...I think we should always challenge our assumptions. This is why I really pay attention to the words from those MAs that are also LEOs or military. I still may not agree with everything they say...at least for me, as I am NOT in their extreme situations.

That said, I think all MA and life in general needs to be adapted to what works for you. No two body types or mental landscapes are the same. I think formal training provides the foundation and outline, and your practice and experience fill in the body.

As for beers, I used to think I didn't like them. Then my ex started brewing beers and trying many brands...and I found I just didn't like most cheap American beers. I tend to like good ales and stouts...but the best I've tried recently was made by Trappist monks in....belgium? Chimay....noooiiiice!

[jorvik]

Chimay ,,,,,,don't get me started ....the single , the double or the triple .....they all go up in strength and you have to drink them like a spirit..and it's all down to the Benedictine Monks............. You can get a Guiness Export with 9 % alchohol............to an American it will rock you to your socks....but to a Scott it's nothing, or as they say "Nee Bother"
Wow Shana..I am seriously impressed ...............I had a few in Bruge
I've been to Belgium a few times..nice place, and good beer

[MikeK]

Mike,
I'd like to get more clarification on your comment

karate training methods are mostly in support of doing more karate without any real end game or specific goal. Not necessarily a bad thing to have no end point but I do think it leads to why karate seems to be focused on conditioning

Are you referring to folks who just do karate to have a hobby or something to do?

I'd say most of us are doing karate as a hobby, or at least I am at this point. I'm not training to fight in the ring, to take out bad guys or go test myself in a red light district like some of my favorite karate masters did. I do this because the techniques interest me.

When I say, "karate training methods are mostly in support of doing more karate without any other real end game or specific goal" that's pretty much what I mean, though I added a word to maybe be a little clearer. In my opinion and experience the main point of karate is to train karate and the conditioning is to help in the training of karate. Karate is almost a closed or isolated system (to borrow and abuse some terms from systems theory).

Karate is excellent for producing karateka with things like self defense and fighting as possible secondary side effects of the training, and with things like feeling good, gaining confidence and getting in shape as possible tertiary side effects. I have to believe that karate has survived mostly intact for so long because it is autopoietic, and once someone makes some changes in it's focus it morphs into something else, sometimes better, usually not IMO.

FWIW, I do believe that simply practicing a martial art should include development of a mindset that makes you more of a sheepdog than sheep. Otherwise, you are simply going through motions and not learning an adaptable skill. I also think you cannot advance if you do not develop that mindset of scenarios, options, etc. So, if someone is doing it just for fun/fitness, that might not be a goal, but if someone is doing it for progression as well as fun/fitness...then...hmmm...maybe i just answered my own question on your point...but please do clarify (stream of conscious writing can be so odd! sorry!)

I prefer wolves to sheepdogs. Wolves are more pro-active, independent and family oriented than the pooch.

Shana, when you say "doing it for progression" what are you progressing to, when will you know when you get there and what will you do when you arrive?
The first two parts of the question should be easy, the last part gives some people trouble.

[hoshin]

it is 2:30 am im a little tired so i apologise if things are a little sloppy

_______________________________________________________________________

There are several systems that all work together to create a conditioned body. You can not separate one from another, they are all interconnected.
Many people think that punching a makiwara is conditioning. While it is conditioning to a certain degree, this form of conditioning is only really working on the skeletal system and to a much lesser degree the connective tissue.
To be a comprehensive practice you need to include the muscles.

To do conditioning correctly you need to engage the muscles by squeezing them on contact. This contraction of the muscles all by itself puts stress on the bones and in turn the bones compensate like we mentioned before. It is this muscle contraction that that does a large portion of the bone building. This is why I do not like to put makiwara training in the same category as comprehensive conditioning. In makiwara training you are not stressing the bones in the same way. You are only activating the exterior repair response not the internal trebeculae building blocks.

How a muscle works is quite complicated. Put simply however,
An alpha motor neuron (or signal) is sent thru an axon cable, the cable is attached to a motor end plate that activates muscle fibers. This simple unit is called a motor unit. The contraction of the entire muscle is the result of many motor units firing at once. The magnitude of the contraction may be altered by altering the number of motor units that are activated and the frequency at which they are activated. Within the fibers there are bands or zones one band is called Myosin the other Actin. On a contraction the Myosin pulls the Actin bands that reside on each side of the Myosin until the Actin band on the left and right meet creating a bridge. When the motor unit activates the fibers there is a normal fiber recruitment strategy to use at little motor units and fibers as necessary first and then more as needed. This strategy may be to conserve energy but is also based on pervious experience.

In Arnold Schwarzenegger’s Encyclopedia of body building book he says;
“Your muscles will grow only when they are subjected to an over load. They will not respond to anything else. As you grow stronger , the only way to make your muscles continue to grow is by increasing the amount of work you force them to do…..”
Later in the book he talks about contracting the muscles;
“You will never be able to refine every single muscle in the body just by training.work outs tend to hit only the large muscles….one of the reasons contractions (which is after all isometrics) helped so much is that it works muscle areas that weight training often misses….you may stand in front of a mirror and flex your thighs, your pectoral or deltoids but how often have do you consider what lies in between these larger muscle groups?”
Arnold says contracting the muscles make the muscles harder to the touch.

What this means for conditioning.
Thru conditioning we can train the muscle to contract quicker and in a more dense formation. The muscle will learn to fire more motor units for a contraction thru experience making the muscle harder on contact protecting the body. Thru training we actually increase the fiber size as well as density. If we concentrate we can shift the area of contraction closer to the ends of the muscles if desired. A good example would be a kick that comes right above the knee. We can train the muscle to have a solid contraction in this area protecting the knee.
But we need to focus on contractions. Flex the muscle until it is tired during training. Just like a body builder lifts the weight until muscle failure as martial artists we need to strengthen the contractions thru rigorous repetition.




Independence.
The first quality one needs to learn is independence of the muscles.
A drummer in a rock band uses two sticks one in each hand. The typical rock beat is a 4/4. Meaning time is divided into four sections which equals one measure.
To do this he will use his right hand to hit the hi- hat cymbal and this will count off the four beats. Then using his left hand he will hit the snare drum once for every four hits from the right hand and usually on the fourth count.
Four beats will equal one measure. With his foot he will hit the bass drum once in the first measure and twice in the second measure.
In the beginning the student drummer will find that his hands and feet will all want to move together rather then when they are supposed to.
This is an example of independence. With time the drummer can do more complicated combinations where all hands and feet move “independently” of the others.

In conditioning we need to learn this independence of our muscles.
During sanchin testing we can train our conditioning by having a partner do arm pounding on one arm while the other arm completes sanchin thrusts or wauke.
This is complex independence because more then one muscle is involved. But we need to lean to take a hit on one side while striking with the other hand. You do not just want to contract the entire body and just be hit over and over.
Simple independence despite the term is much harder. Too only contract a single muscle or a very small area. At first it is hard just to “find” the muscle within your body. If I asked you to stand and contract only your Vastus lateralis or outer head of the quadricept I am sure you would be contracting your toes , calves, stomach ect. But may be unable to mentally “find” what you want. This is why the contact of conditioning is important it helps you concentrate on the area. And the harder your partner hits the more you will naturally flex that muscle. The harder you flex the more you get the desired result.
Over time you will find independence of your muscles. Like a mime you will be able to use only the muscle you want and when you want it. That is how they create the illusion it takes very fine muscle development and control.

The next step is to move while conditioning. Don’t just stand there and be hit. Learn to be in action but still be able to contract the forearm or even the thigh muscles. Contract the thigh while in mid step. Have your partner kick you while stepping and time the kick when your foot in off the floor. Do this then add striking at the same time.
This is when you start working on different muscle contractions. Isokinectics and isoinertial. Contracting as you push against the floor with your leg Vs contracting and pushing against other muscle contractions. You need more then one type.

[Shana Moore]

Mike,
I wasn't trying to put you on the spot, so sorry! I was really just curious. Thanks for your answer,a nd I would have to agree that most of us are doing this as a hobby, and the word "other" does help clarify, oddly enough!

"autopoietic" I'll admit I had to look this up to make sure I understood it's meaning, and I have to agree Karate is a self perpetuating and creative construct. With the changes in combat (guns, for example), I'm impressed that it is still considered valuable and worthwhile...and also glad!

I LOVE your comment on wolves and sheepdogs! If you actually know something about wolves and not the public misconception that they are vicious evil creatures, this is a great fit!

As for your questions, and I realize they were most rhetorical...for me...I have the obvious goal of someday having a black belt, but the real goal for me has no end date...it's to learn more and be better at what I do. As long as I am learning something and enjoying what I am doing, then it is worth it. So, I don't know if there is an arrival, but if there is, then my answer would be to learn something new or seek a new direction.

Good post Mike!

[Bill Glasheen]

Mike's post made me chuckle. Why? Because he took a common metaphor in the violence arena (wolves vs. sheep or "sheeple" vs. sheepdogs) and turned it on its ear. Mostly Mike just has a sense of humor about it all.

Also... I am with Mike in that I happen to love wolves. They are very social animals, and have very strict rules of engagement within their packs. If you have a dog or dogs - particularly one that isn't neutered and/or stupid and overly-domesticated - then you may observe a little of the behavior in canis familiaris that is more common and stronger in canis lupus. In my family, my dog considers himself to be at least equal to my wife and number 2 son, although he loves them both. Meanwhile, he and I have a very different relationship. And that doesn't mean more conflict. We just have an understanding of each other... It's vaguely wolf-like in nature.

When I used to work as a director of a research unit a few jobs ago, I had a beautiful picture of a wolf that graced the entrance of my office. It was a photo of a wolf peering out from behind a tree, with just one eye looking at you. It was a most piercing gaze.

He had my back.

- Bill

[Shana Moore]

Good stuff here, and I did NOT mean to guilt you into posting at o-dark thirty! No apologies necessary!

If I'm understanding this correctly, the squeeze you are talking about is the exact same reason you should contract your bicep at the top of a concentration curl? hmmm...I thought it just helped engage the muscle more (those smaller muscle fibers you mentioned), I never realized it could have benefits for the bone as well! Hmmm...will have to do some more reading on this. Thank you!

I also find your discussion of independence intriguing. It basically implies that partner work is necessary for proper conditioning. I think Bill also stated this in one of his post. I can see how you could do some of the focused muscle direction on your own, but it sounds like it would not be as strong or useful unless you had the variety and spontaneity a partner can provide. Is this correct?

Now, I think several folks have brought up a good question regarding the contractions, and I'm not sure if this is fully addressed in your post. The concept of flexing/contracting a muscle to protect a vital area makes sense; however, that also means you need to be quick and alert enough to do so in a fighting situation. How practical is this during an actual sparring or combat scenario?

Your discussion on independence speaks to being able to target specific muscles for contraction and while doing other actions. It also speaks to differnt type of contractions during different motions and scenarios, which is part of this question....but not all. Is the assumption here that your body will develop not only the skill and targeting abilities, but some measure of muscle memory as well? In other words, you will do as you train?

Please understand that I think this is great stuff, but I am curious what are your thoughts on this specific concern?

Once again, Hoshin, thank you!

Also, for my own curiousity and because I have not been on the boards a long time (and your profile is sparse) is this from personal experience and research or are you in the medical or sports field? That last is personal, but I always like to know the background behind my sources of information. So, if you don't mind, please let us know. If you do mind, I will understand. Thank you.