why do I really condition the body parts that I do?
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the parts of the body you condition are the ones on the exterior of the shell of the body.
inside and outside of the thighs especialy around the knees.
you can't condition the knee itself but you can help strenghten and support the knee structure with the connective tissue and muscles around the knee.
these areas are targeted because they allow the person to stand and move.
old saying ....if a man cant stand he cant fight.
the calves, i do this more for the ability to fend off a kick ment to sweep the leg as a take down attempt. generaly any kick here doesnt have much power so the conditioning factor is minimal but learning to maintain standing and absorb a kick and not be swept is valuable, but probably not that common, i personlly only ad this area because it fits well with the thigh exersizes.
the shins. very bony, hard surface. most people would hesitate to throw a hard shin against shin attack. fear of personal injury while trying to shin kick is a concern. so through training you will find you can slam your own shin against other peoples shin andother hard surfaces without sustaining serious injury...
(there is a clip out there on you tube of a guy throwing a shin kick and breaking his own leg in two. very nasty)
the forearm. they take most of the abuse during a fight while you are trying to cover the softer body and head. the more punishment they can take the better,
while an attaker does not target this area it is human instinct to cover the body and head with the arms.
the stomach, a hard muscular stomach helps protect the inner organs.
conditionng produces hard packed muscle fibers, more so then crunch situps alone.
the lats and muscles toward the rear of the rib cage.
this area would be targed because of its lack of defense and broken ribs can puncture the lungs.
the front of the ribcage does not have the muscular structure for protection , but does have the arms to help protect it. on the back of the rib cage the muscles are the only thing protecting against strikes here because the arms can not reach.
muscles are ,,Teres major, Infraspinatus , Rhomboids and mostly Latissimus dorsi.
there is not much you can do to protect the body in this area,so every little bit of muscle protection for the ribs helps.
Shinyu Gushi said when he was learning in his youth the Uechi guys would condition the connective tissue and muscles in the front of the neck.
they would actually throw open hand strikes to the neck but Kanyei thought this was too extreem and dangerous so the practice was dropped.
your current thinking on conditioning
Moderator: Available
how do I really use this conditioning pro-actively against someone with experience who wants to hurt me?
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i will use my shin to kick the front of your shin, your shin will snap in half, and you will die.
i will use the conditioned outer edge of my forearm to meet your round kick to the head, your shin will be weak and my forarm will snap your leg in two and you will be dead.
i will expose my well conditioned 6 pack of abs and all the girls will be mad at you for picking on me and they will attack you and you will die.
i mean really this question is rather silly so i give a silly response. the question is in the same thought process and why do i go to the gym. how does that pro-actively help me against someone with experience trying to smash my head into the curb. are you going to carry around a dumbell and throw it at them?
answer ...it doesnt really ,,but it does help.
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i will use my shin to kick the front of your shin, your shin will snap in half, and you will die.
i will use the conditioned outer edge of my forearm to meet your round kick to the head, your shin will be weak and my forarm will snap your leg in two and you will be dead.
i will expose my well conditioned 6 pack of abs and all the girls will be mad at you for picking on me and they will attack you and you will die.
i mean really this question is rather silly so i give a silly response. the question is in the same thought process and why do i go to the gym. how does that pro-actively help me against someone with experience trying to smash my head into the curb. are you going to carry around a dumbell and throw it at them?
answer ...it doesnt really ,,but it does help.
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jorvik
Quote
"Ray i dont mean to hop on your statement, but did you not read anything that has been posted here?
from this statement it sounds like you are looking at conditioning All wrong. "
Yes I did..Am I getting it wrong? I really don't know
...the original question was something in the order of " What is your take on conditioning?
and this was said by a women...so I answer in that context
.....I've already said about me but I will re-iterate......My Gung fu buddy thought that I did Shaolin conditioning because we could whack away at our forearms and he didn't respond and neither did I....the assumption being that I was conditioned , when I wasn't, I said that I didn't think it was that important....frankly I still don't , because I think that there arer more important things to develop in martial arts........look at this (and from a Uechi guy )
http://www.uechi-ryu-journal.com/genera ... -training/
now what is your take on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep2rovVDZYI
To me it is superficial Eye candy for wannabe karatekas..if it was me I would be hitting him on the head, especially when he tensed to take the hit
look at this now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP65_CiHzz0
their rule set is pathetic........I accept that this is sport.but look at what they take to the body...but it is always the headshot that takes the guiy out
............So what do you want to be or do?...
I don't know what you are....but................. I am fat,out of condition and with a false hip.............conditioning may work for you but it won't work for me
..that is my point
"Ray i dont mean to hop on your statement, but did you not read anything that has been posted here?
from this statement it sounds like you are looking at conditioning All wrong. "
Yes I did..Am I getting it wrong? I really don't know
...the original question was something in the order of " What is your take on conditioning?and this was said by a women...so I answer in that context
.....I've already said about me but I will re-iterate......My Gung fu buddy thought that I did Shaolin conditioning because we could whack away at our forearms and he didn't respond and neither did I....the assumption being that I was conditioned , when I wasn't, I said that I didn't think it was that important....frankly I still don't , because I think that there arer more important things to develop in martial arts........look at this (and from a Uechi guy )http://www.uechi-ryu-journal.com/genera ... -training/
now what is your take on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep2rovVDZYI
To me it is superficial Eye candy for wannabe karatekas..if it was me I would be hitting him on the head, especially when he tensed to take the hit
look at this now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP65_CiHzz0
their rule set is pathetic........I accept that this is sport.but look at what they take to the body...but it is always the headshot that takes the guiy out
............So what do you want to be or do?...I don't know what you are....but................. I am fat,out of condition and with a false hip.............conditioning may work for you but it won't work for me
..that is my pointRay,
first off lets get past the whole makiwara issue,
i like to use a makiwara but it does not fit into the same catagory as body conditioning that i am talking about. it does not engage the muscles in the same manner. the jury is still out for me ,if there is a non damaging way to train the hand like that.
as for your clips, yep thats a conditioned body, but it is being used for show.
my question for you would be, do you go to the gym, do you exersize at all? and if so why bother , you cant exersise your head, you will still get knocked out.
i guess we will have to put this baby to rest and agree that we disagree.
from my perspective conditioning is as usefull as going to the gym or running. its as plain as the nose on my face.
i have to assume you feel the same that conditioning does not exist or is usefull in any manner.
the comment i will agree with you on is , if the time spent conditioning is time well spent.
that is for the individual to decide and i said that at the begining.
as we all know many argue kumite is not worth the time, many say kata is not worth the time. you could pose that question for anything in life and there is no right or wrong answer there.
first off lets get past the whole makiwara issue,
i like to use a makiwara but it does not fit into the same catagory as body conditioning that i am talking about. it does not engage the muscles in the same manner. the jury is still out for me ,if there is a non damaging way to train the hand like that.
as for your clips, yep thats a conditioned body, but it is being used for show.
my question for you would be, do you go to the gym, do you exersize at all? and if so why bother , you cant exersise your head, you will still get knocked out.
i guess we will have to put this baby to rest and agree that we disagree.
from my perspective conditioning is as usefull as going to the gym or running. its as plain as the nose on my face.
i have to assume you feel the same that conditioning does not exist or is usefull in any manner.
the comment i will agree with you on is , if the time spent conditioning is time well spent.
that is for the individual to decide and i said that at the begining.
as we all know many argue kumite is not worth the time, many say kata is not worth the time. you could pose that question for anything in life and there is no right or wrong answer there.
So conditioning helps and it doesn't?hoshin wrote:how do I really use this conditioning pro-actively against someone with experience who wants to hurt me?
i mean really this question is rather silly so i give a silly response. the question is in the same thought process and why do i go to the gym. how does that pro-actively help me against someone with experience trying to smash my head into the curb. are you going to carry around a dumbell and throw it at them?
answer ...it doesnt really ,,but it does help.
Can you clarify what you mean?I can think of several reasons why going to the gym may pro-actively help me against someone with experience trying to smash my head into the curb. Let me ask, what do you train and condition in the gym that could help you in that situation?
Once again, here are a couple of open ended semi-rhetorical questions...
Ask yourself, why do I really condition the body parts that I do?
Ask yourself, how do I really use this conditioning pro-actively against someone with experience who wants to hurt me?
For Bill's folks, I've heard Bill mention something several times when teaching the first kyu kumite that could help with an answer to the questions. It had to do with targeting. It's not the only answer but an answer.
It's actually a good technique to buy a half second or so, Patrick McCarthy taught it to me at a seminar after I asked him about a certain group. Took about 2 minutes to learn the trick, the rest is just practice. We use it at the farm against chokes.Shinyu Gushi said when he was learning in his youth the Uechi guys would condition the connective tissue and muscles in the front of the neck.
they would actually throw open hand strikes to the neck but Kanyei thought this was too extreem and dangerous so the practice was dropped.
I was dreaming of the past...
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jorvik
Quote
"Shinyu Gushi said when he was learning in his youth the Uechi guys would condition the connective tissue and muscles in the front of the neck.
they would actually throw open hand strikes to the neck but Kanyei thought this was too extreem and dangerous so the practice was dropped."
Now that sounds pretty good
. The points that I am making about conditioning is really something which somebody else brought up about another subject and the point was how do we know it works? ....now in a lot of cases most of what we know is based on anacdotes...tales told by somebody else and not on personnal experience..some of it I go along with and some of it I don't....now with conditioning I can see why doing it to your shins may serve a purpose as Thai boxers kick to the legs and their defence is to block it with the shin, the forearm I am less likely to agree with because I know somebody who blocked a kick with his forearm and damaged his arm.this was during sparring, but it would have been the end of the fight if it wasn't also I've done some escrima and they tend to use the end of the elbow to block punches and that seems much more effective to me.
What happens in a lot of clubs is that folks go there and mentally absorb everything that is thrown at them and never question it..........The folks who think that a particular thing is daft, don't stay, so bad practices flourish in such an environment i.e. lots of willing,unquestioning students. I am not specifically talking about Uechi or any other particular style here.
With conditioing it comes pretty far down my list of things to do...in fact if it's a choice of pushups or conditioning I'd do pushups. The thing that I really don't like about conditioing and again not directed at anyone......although Kyokshinkai seem do do it the most.is when your whole style becomes based on being able to take a hit
Now there are a couple of people in Uechi that I admire such as Master Gushi and the late Master Toyama ........I believe that Master Toyama has said that the type of body pounding you see done in Sanchin testing was done only on special occasions...so originally I don't believe it was done in
the way we see it so often nowadays and I like Master Gushi's quote at the top.
Another thing that I don't understand is when you see juko kai folks doing their stuff the most critical people seem to be those who do conditioning
these are folks who actually do take hits to sensitive parts of the body such as the throat or groin............now I have been hit in the carotid sinus in a fight..actually it was more an assault done in a cowardly manner, but I went down real quick, so that quote from Master Gushi interests me.
"Shinyu Gushi said when he was learning in his youth the Uechi guys would condition the connective tissue and muscles in the front of the neck.
they would actually throw open hand strikes to the neck but Kanyei thought this was too extreem and dangerous so the practice was dropped."
Now that sounds pretty good
. The points that I am making about conditioning is really something which somebody else brought up about another subject and the point was how do we know it works? ....now in a lot of cases most of what we know is based on anacdotes...tales told by somebody else and not on personnal experience..some of it I go along with and some of it I don't....now with conditioning I can see why doing it to your shins may serve a purpose as Thai boxers kick to the legs and their defence is to block it with the shin, the forearm I am less likely to agree with because I know somebody who blocked a kick with his forearm and damaged his arm.this was during sparring, but it would have been the end of the fight if it wasn't also I've done some escrima and they tend to use the end of the elbow to block punches and that seems much more effective to me.What happens in a lot of clubs is that folks go there and mentally absorb everything that is thrown at them and never question it..........The folks who think that a particular thing is daft, don't stay, so bad practices flourish in such an environment i.e. lots of willing,unquestioning students. I am not specifically talking about Uechi or any other particular style here.
With conditioing it comes pretty far down my list of things to do...in fact if it's a choice of pushups or conditioning I'd do pushups. The thing that I really don't like about conditioing and again not directed at anyone......although Kyokshinkai seem do do it the most.is when your whole style becomes based on being able to take a hit
Now there are a couple of people in Uechi that I admire such as Master Gushi and the late Master Toyama ........I believe that Master Toyama has said that the type of body pounding you see done in Sanchin testing was done only on special occasions...so originally I don't believe it was done in
the way we see it so often nowadays and I like Master Gushi's quote at the top.
Another thing that I don't understand is when you see juko kai folks doing their stuff the most critical people seem to be those who do conditioning
these are folks who actually do take hits to sensitive parts of the body such as the throat or groin............now I have been hit in the carotid sinus in a fight..actually it was more an assault done in a cowardly manner, but I went down real quick, so that quote from Master Gushi interests me.
how do we know it works? ....
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how do you know doing pushups works?
i would argue that you can do push ups all day and you still will not be able to punch any harder.
i do agree that many people just follow the crowd and belive in false truths , i question the same practices.
now you meantion Thai fighters blocking with thier shins,
i thought all uechi people did that to,,i guess i am in the minority.
the problem i see with the question about if it works or not is that it puts me as the pro- conditioning advocate in a bit of a delema.
i have already stated i did 10 years of training before i even heard of conditioning the body. then another 10 after , from my PERSONAL experience it makes a huge difference.
now how do i prove that on a web page ,other then my personal testimonial?
now if i put out an invite to come train with me ,it comes off as a challenge. if i tell you about the all of people i have trained with and have spared or conditioned with and the results of those incounters it would seem like i am bragging and you wouldnt belive it anyway.
so my only way to try and prove something would be through science and medical documentation which is what i did.
all i can say is i thought i was king $^!# after 10 years of trianing. i steped on the uechi floor with my teacher the first day and he embarrised the crap out of me and broke my spirt when he had me kick and punch him with all i had , i mean with everything i had. i thought i could move mountains with my round kick and he just stood there with this puzzeled look on his face and said .." no no , really kick me, no i mean hard , go ahead kick come on now i thought you said you new how to kick, alright forget it,, here now punch me ...
and it went on and on and while many may look at that as a palor trick, when you are the guy who thought was tuff and experienced and could take on anyone and your kicking with all your might and its hurting your foot and hand just to hit this guy, ,,,,,,well its no parlor trick then ,,,its down right humbling and it you know it works..
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how do you know doing pushups works?
i would argue that you can do push ups all day and you still will not be able to punch any harder.
i do agree that many people just follow the crowd and belive in false truths , i question the same practices.
now you meantion Thai fighters blocking with thier shins,
i thought all uechi people did that to,,i guess i am in the minority.
the problem i see with the question about if it works or not is that it puts me as the pro- conditioning advocate in a bit of a delema.
i have already stated i did 10 years of training before i even heard of conditioning the body. then another 10 after , from my PERSONAL experience it makes a huge difference.
now how do i prove that on a web page ,other then my personal testimonial?
now if i put out an invite to come train with me ,it comes off as a challenge. if i tell you about the all of people i have trained with and have spared or conditioned with and the results of those incounters it would seem like i am bragging and you wouldnt belive it anyway.
so my only way to try and prove something would be through science and medical documentation which is what i did.
all i can say is i thought i was king $^!# after 10 years of trianing. i steped on the uechi floor with my teacher the first day and he embarrised the crap out of me and broke my spirt when he had me kick and punch him with all i had , i mean with everything i had. i thought i could move mountains with my round kick and he just stood there with this puzzeled look on his face and said .." no no , really kick me, no i mean hard , go ahead kick come on now i thought you said you new how to kick, alright forget it,, here now punch me ...
and it went on and on and while many may look at that as a palor trick, when you are the guy who thought was tuff and experienced and could take on anyone and your kicking with all your might and its hurting your foot and hand just to hit this guy, ,,,,,,well its no parlor trick then ,,,its down right humbling and it you know it works..
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jorvik
Hoshin
The original thread that mentioned about does a thing work was regards a blow to the temple. At first I thought the question was pretty dumb, but later I realised that it wasn't dumb at all, a lot of what we take as truths, very often aren't.
I can tell two tales which are a bit different from that. The first was with a Uechi guy who was very well conditioned and a body builder with a superb physic ( Sp) anyway I was sparring with him when he kicked me in the stomach and it knocked me back now he was a black belt and I was a white belt ....and you know there is something in me that just won't let a thing go, but he scared the hell out of me, anyway what I did was shin kick him with my shin as hard as I could on his leg and he gave me a rather sheepish look....and I figured that he had realised he was in the wrong....later I learned that I had hit him on a nerve bundle,the look on his face was pain 
.his conditioning didn't help..........
now there is another thing to look at...........I had a similar experience to you in a Uechi club to the one you mentioned above. A black belt was going hard on me. he swept me and as I went down I carried on sparring ...........he said " When I put you down you stay down".........I said that if I was in a streetfight I would have to keep on fighting.he gave me a condescending sneer.we carried on sparring and he started flicking his fingers casually in my eyes, I told him to stop.........once again the condescending sneer
..So I gave him a big ole right hook, lovely glancing blow that put him on his arse ....Now, I'm a lot calmer because I'm older..........a similar situation happened quite recently with another big guy and I realised that if I did the same trick I could lose my job and my pension .so I walked away
The guy who did that to you could quite easily do it to the wrong type of person...I for one would have kicked him in the head
The original thread that mentioned about does a thing work was regards a blow to the temple. At first I thought the question was pretty dumb, but later I realised that it wasn't dumb at all, a lot of what we take as truths, very often aren't.
I can tell two tales which are a bit different from that. The first was with a Uechi guy who was very well conditioned and a body builder with a superb physic ( Sp) anyway I was sparring with him when he kicked me in the stomach and it knocked me back now he was a black belt and I was a white belt
....and you know there is something in me that just won't let a thing go, but he scared the hell out of me, anyway what I did was shin kick him with my shin as hard as I could on his leg and he gave me a rather sheepish look....and I figured that he had realised he was in the wrong....later I learned that I had hit him on a nerve bundle,the look on his face was pain .his conditioning didn't help..........now there is another thing to look at...........I had a similar experience to you in a Uechi club to the one you mentioned above. A black belt was going hard on me. he swept me and as I went down I carried on sparring ...........he said " When I put you down you stay down".........I said that if I was in a streetfight I would have to keep on fighting.he gave me a condescending sneer.we carried on sparring and he started flicking his fingers casually in my eyes, I told him to stop.........once again the condescending sneer
..So I gave him a big ole right hook, lovely glancing blow that put him on his arse ....Now, I'm a lot calmer because I'm older..........a similar situation happened quite recently with another big guy and I realised that if I did the same trick I could lose my job and my pension .so I walked away The guy who did that to you could quite easily do it to the wrong type of person...I for one would have kicked him in the head
and this is why i hesitate to say some things , because you totaly misinterpreted what i was saying and missed the point.
your stories are examples of just plain old @$$^^0ls ,
bullies being bullies.
this was not like that at all!!
what happened to me was not him bulliing me at all, it was normal class.
i thought if i hit some someone they would crumble in pain, like you said the nerve center thing and all that. i could hit and have crumbled people
but i was hitting HIM. he was not hitting me, i was doing my best to hurt him, kick him with all i got and he just stood there like i was a child. not being mean, not trying to be condesending. just telling me it was ok to let it out that i didnt have to be afraid of hurting him.
( and i would like to point out i have never ,never seen anyone hit or kick as hard as him)
unless you know him or someone like that you will never understand. because i was so very humbled by him. i knew in my heart there was something very different here. something i have never seen before thru all my travels and visits to various dojos. i needed that!!!! i was probaly very arrogant and stuck in my thinking, and he showed me there is more.
he knew right well i needed to come down a few pegs. but he was in no way mean about it with me.
i stayed , he was my teacher for a long time. over time i gained what he had. a conditioned body. it took years and years and i will never reach the point he was at but doing arm pounding or something i could keep up with him where most could not. i am still humbled by all he can do. what he has accomplished for him self and i am very very proud to have had him as my teacher.
but i am done going on in this direction its not productive for anyone.
so your reality is not my reality.
im just glad i have mine. they are some of the best memories.
my teacher used to say "these ARE the good old days"
and he was right. to him i say thank you T !!
your stories are examples of just plain old @$$^^0ls ,
bullies being bullies.
this was not like that at all!!
what happened to me was not him bulliing me at all, it was normal class.
i thought if i hit some someone they would crumble in pain, like you said the nerve center thing and all that. i could hit and have crumbled people
but i was hitting HIM. he was not hitting me, i was doing my best to hurt him, kick him with all i got and he just stood there like i was a child. not being mean, not trying to be condesending. just telling me it was ok to let it out that i didnt have to be afraid of hurting him.
( and i would like to point out i have never ,never seen anyone hit or kick as hard as him)
unless you know him or someone like that you will never understand. because i was so very humbled by him. i knew in my heart there was something very different here. something i have never seen before thru all my travels and visits to various dojos. i needed that!!!! i was probaly very arrogant and stuck in my thinking, and he showed me there is more.
he knew right well i needed to come down a few pegs. but he was in no way mean about it with me.
i stayed , he was my teacher for a long time. over time i gained what he had. a conditioned body. it took years and years and i will never reach the point he was at but doing arm pounding or something i could keep up with him where most could not. i am still humbled by all he can do. what he has accomplished for him self and i am very very proud to have had him as my teacher.
but i am done going on in this direction its not productive for anyone.
so your reality is not my reality.
im just glad i have mine. they are some of the best memories.
my teacher used to say "these ARE the good old days"
and he was right. to him i say thank you T !!
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jorvik
Quote
"and this is why i hesitate to say some things , because you totaly misinterpreted what i was saying and missed the point.
your stories are examples of just plain old @$$^^0ls ,
bullies being bullies. "
Yeah, wellcome to the internet.
I like the thing about master Gushi though
Quote
"but i am done going on in this direction its not productive for anyone.
so your reality is not my reality.
im just glad i have mine. they are some of the best memories.
my teacher used to say "these ARE the good old days"
and he was right. to him i say thank you T !!"
No I wouldn't say that.....I'll certainly have a think about what you've said
and you have been polite and you sound like a credit to Uechi and karate generally
"and this is why i hesitate to say some things , because you totaly misinterpreted what i was saying and missed the point.
your stories are examples of just plain old @$$^^0ls ,
bullies being bullies. "
Yeah, wellcome to the internet.
I like the thing about master Gushi though
Quote
"but i am done going on in this direction its not productive for anyone.
so your reality is not my reality.
im just glad i have mine. they are some of the best memories.
my teacher used to say "these ARE the good old days"
and he was right. to him i say thank you T !!"
No I wouldn't say that.....I'll certainly have a think about what you've said
and you have been polite and you sound like a credit to Uechi and karate generally
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fivedragons
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:05 am
I'm going to try my best to express my thoughts in a way that might help someone out there and also not offend anyone. It is always hard for me.
Conditioning is good for you.
Forget about the serial killer with the submachine gun, you don't condition your body and your mind for bullets, you do it because it feels good, and it makes your body stronger, more youthful, and it MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD.
When Kanei made the decision to spread your art to the world, did he feel an urgent need to train everyone to be James Bond, or did he know that what he had learned from his father had value as a holistic approach to physical and mental health, and could HELP PEOPLE.
You know, we're all a bunch of paranoid retards when we talk about karate, because we have all come to this as a reaction to something in our lives that made us feel powerless, and we wanted to find an answer, something that would give us power and self esteem.
Maybe not, maybe some people actually start learning karate just because it seems like a fun and wholesome activity to engage in.
But those aren't the people who engage in debates for ten years about the best way to survive a predatory ambush.
I think Dana put it the best way, and thank you Dana for finally breaking through the rock and barnacle encrusted shell that I thought was my mind.
You know what, if you want to know how to kill someone, take a fuking gun and put a bullet through their brain.
What are we doing, trying to learn the best way to pretend that we are doing violence to people without actually doing violence to people?
It's ridiculous.
Conditioning strengthens the body and the mind.
Duh.
When I think back on all the crap that I learned from my teachers that didn't have anything to do with fighting, I have no choice but to laugh my ass off, because I DON"T GO OUT THE DOOR AND FIGHT PEOPLE IN THE MORNING.
I mean, I'm still coming to terms with the depth and value of all this stuff that has become part of my everyday existence, growth, maturity and health.
But karate has to be some kind of serious heavy thing, that was created specifically for you, and the demons that you have encountered in the past, and the demons that you continually conjure in the future.
Violence is very simple, and you don't need to take karate classes to learn how to hurt people.
Just fuking do it.
Anyways, I have never used my "karate" to hurt anyone and every day I practice "karate" without engaging in some kind of negative mind-screw of negativity.
Conditioning is good for you.
Forget about the serial killer with the submachine gun, you don't condition your body and your mind for bullets, you do it because it feels good, and it makes your body stronger, more youthful, and it MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD.
When Kanei made the decision to spread your art to the world, did he feel an urgent need to train everyone to be James Bond, or did he know that what he had learned from his father had value as a holistic approach to physical and mental health, and could HELP PEOPLE.
You know, we're all a bunch of paranoid retards when we talk about karate, because we have all come to this as a reaction to something in our lives that made us feel powerless, and we wanted to find an answer, something that would give us power and self esteem.
Maybe not, maybe some people actually start learning karate just because it seems like a fun and wholesome activity to engage in.
But those aren't the people who engage in debates for ten years about the best way to survive a predatory ambush.
I think Dana put it the best way, and thank you Dana for finally breaking through the rock and barnacle encrusted shell that I thought was my mind.
You know what, if you want to know how to kill someone, take a fuking gun and put a bullet through their brain.
What are we doing, trying to learn the best way to pretend that we are doing violence to people without actually doing violence to people?
It's ridiculous.
Conditioning strengthens the body and the mind.
Duh.
When I think back on all the crap that I learned from my teachers that didn't have anything to do with fighting, I have no choice but to laugh my ass off, because I DON"T GO OUT THE DOOR AND FIGHT PEOPLE IN THE MORNING.
I mean, I'm still coming to terms with the depth and value of all this stuff that has become part of my everyday existence, growth, maturity and health.
But karate has to be some kind of serious heavy thing, that was created specifically for you, and the demons that you have encountered in the past, and the demons that you continually conjure in the future.
Violence is very simple, and you don't need to take karate classes to learn how to hurt people.
Just fuking do it.
Anyways, I have never used my "karate" to hurt anyone and every day I practice "karate" without engaging in some kind of negative mind-screw of negativity.
Ray,
thank you for the compliment. you and i have both been on these forums for some time and i respect you and you bring value to these forums.
debate is logic and reason... an argument is emotinal.
i try my best to stick to debate and stay clear of arguments.
Fivedragons,
your post made me smile and laugh. a very well made statement.
thank you for the compliment. you and i have both been on these forums for some time and i respect you and you bring value to these forums.
debate is logic and reason... an argument is emotinal.
i try my best to stick to debate and stay clear of arguments.
Fivedragons,
your post made me smile and laugh. a very well made statement.
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Shana Moore
- Posts: 621
- Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:42 pm
- Location: Virginia
wow...step away for a day or so and see what interesting conversations happen!
Mike,
You actually ask some questions that I think everyone should ask themselves at some point, if nothing else to do a check no why they are doing what they are doing.
That said, I think Sue addressed one of my own reasons that I started looking into and beginning conditioning. I'm not looking to catch a bullet with my incredible knuckles or scare away attackers with my impressive shins 
I'm looking to do 4 things:
1-continue on a path toward better health and overall conditioning (and I think body conditioning will be part of my long term habit...just like weights and cardio)
2-learning to deal with/prepare for pain in a gentle, uncrazy way (that's the "stop the flinch" that I was trying to get at)
3-provide some moderate strengthening to my bones, and related systems, to help make me a little stronger against attack in sparring, what-have-you
4-explore the history of Uechi and martial arts in a very physical way
hoshin and mike, good discussions and interesting points to ponder. Thanks for keeping it interesting.
fivedragons, your post made me laugh...but point well made!
Mike,
You actually ask some questions that I think everyone should ask themselves at some point, if nothing else to do a check no why they are doing what they are doing.
That said, I think Sue addressed one of my own reasons that I started looking into and beginning conditioning. I'm not looking to catch a bullet with my incredible knuckles or scare away attackers with my impressive shins
I'm looking to do 4 things:
1-continue on a path toward better health and overall conditioning (and I think body conditioning will be part of my long term habit...just like weights and cardio)
2-learning to deal with/prepare for pain in a gentle, uncrazy way (that's the "stop the flinch" that I was trying to get at)
3-provide some moderate strengthening to my bones, and related systems, to help make me a little stronger against attack in sparring, what-have-you
4-explore the history of Uechi and martial arts in a very physical way
hoshin and mike, good discussions and interesting points to ponder. Thanks for keeping it interesting.
fivedragons, your post made me laugh...but point well made!
Live True, Laugh often
Shana
Shana
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jorvik
Quote
"Most people who argue against conditioning, or say it is a waste of time, are the ones who are too lazy to work out themselves, and are embarrassed about their lack of conditioning and have a poor self-image. In short, they are rationalizing their own shortcomings.
Jeff Cook"
It depends what you mean by conditioning......To me lifting weights and similar exercises are important and I class them as conditioning, also pushups and situps. I would never argue against doing them, they are a priority to me.
Now if you take conditioning to mean " arm pounding " etc.......then I would say in my experience the reverse is true. I know people who will quite happilly bang away at each others arms for an age and are yet very out of condition. Also I will make a point that I think is extremely important..............you should aim to learn techniques that are not based on physical fitness or strength, that you can just do.....and another point don't assume that because a guy is fat that he is out of condition or can't fight
......I mean look at Sumo wrestlers
"Most people who argue against conditioning, or say it is a waste of time, are the ones who are too lazy to work out themselves, and are embarrassed about their lack of conditioning and have a poor self-image. In short, they are rationalizing their own shortcomings.
Jeff Cook"
It depends what you mean by conditioning......To me lifting weights and similar exercises are important and I class them as conditioning, also pushups and situps. I would never argue against doing them, they are a priority to me.
Now if you take conditioning to mean " arm pounding " etc.......then I would say in my experience the reverse is true. I know people who will quite happilly bang away at each others arms for an age and are yet very out of condition. Also I will make a point that I think is extremely important..............you should aim to learn techniques that are not based on physical fitness or strength, that you can just do.....and another point don't assume that because a guy is fat that he is out of condition or can't fight
......I mean look at Sumo wrestlers