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I really don't know about that......from my line of work I would say that the commonest cause of death in a streetfight is a big ole haymaker, and then hitting your head on the concrete sidewalk.....I'd guess one of the deadliest forms of fighting real world would be sport Aikido ( Shudokan)...I don't know what happens in canada, but we are more worried about guys with knives than we are about bears. We have no bears ..but sadly no shortage of guys with knives

Adam and Ray,
Interesting discussion, but a bit off topic on conditioning..so I'm starting a new thread with some info I just found about how many fights go to ground....as I've heard the stats, but not the quoted sources...will look for more info as I have time...but please visit the new thread to continue this discussion on grappling, ground, etc.
thanks!

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Shana

Ever do ground work with knives? Difficult, but enlightening.

Just because people die by hitting their head on concrete when falling doesn't mean alot of fights don't go to the ground. Hell someone sits on top of you and starting pounding, your head probably starts bouncing off the ground...which could be concrete.

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"Ever do ground work with knives?
Difficult, but enlightening"No why would I ....ever treated a punch as a knife thrust?.ever thought what you would do against somebody who wants to open your face up .............folks with knives don't grapple generally.but there is always a "Black Swan " moment.....If you are training for the street you must train for that , not for some imagined attack..with knives it is over very quick, even accidentaly when they don't mean to kill..........I hate tournement style karate but that would probably work better than most things against a knife

Im not saying to deliberately go to the ground with a knife, just training it. The reason i like objects, especially shiny objects is psychology behind it. When it's shiney something goes off. Ive had a spetznaz guy talk about it too.

Haven't you seen videos of kniffings? they do often go to the ground? Or with the knifer sitting on top jabbing away with the blade.

Yep, knife defense is damn hard, you probably don't want to draw the fight out, and there isn't much margin of error. It's easy to get impaled.

Adam
Martial arts can get a bit like the Monty Python sketch where you have to defend yourself against an attack with a banana, or an orange
You really have to define for yourself where you want to go..knife defence is one of those subjects that is right out there with the faeries...all those folks out there teaching knife fighting and knife defence, or designing the ultimate fighting knife...I wonder how many of them have actually been in a knife fight or actually cut someone ( for the record I haven't either )

..........and with martial arts you have to practice for the most common attacks over the more exotic, so same with knife attacks

Adam and Ray,
my 2 cents:
IF you are at the level where you have learned the basics and are expanding your training, then I think training TO the concept of knife on the ground makes wonderful sense! I think we can all agree that you never know what will happen in a fight, especially one in which there are no referees or rules.

I can see disagreement on what you should train for and/or where to focus your time, but to argue over how likely a knife is to occur in a fight gone to ground.....seems kinda pointless. If you are truly in a nasty-no-holds-barred street fight, then any tool at your disposal is an open possibility, no matter where you are.

Sorry Ray, but your point in these last two posts just seems to contradict your earlier comments that anything can happen in a fight and you should be prepared for the worst.

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That said, this thread is really about conditioning, and grappling on the ground with a knife is a good training scenario, but not really about conditioning. If you are interested in furthering this discussion, please move it to the thread about how many fights end up on the ground, as that is more relevant there.

SO! BACK ON TOPIC, PLEASE!

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Shana

Here is a conditioning question, anyone use shin's or instep when conditioning(round kick question)

Thanks Adam for getting back on topic....we do a basic kick conditioning drill that alternates inside shin/outside thigh, outside shin/inside groin...and the attcker uses instep and top of foot for the kicks.....is that what you are asking?

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Shana

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"Sorry Ray, but your point in these last two posts just seems to contradict your earlier comments that anything can happen in a fight and you should be prepared for the worst. "

I don't think that it does ...basically I believe that pretty much anything can happen in a real fight, but that you should train for the most probable types of attack. I mean you may get attacked by a capoestra, but it is unlikely .
Also real fights do often have other stuff added to them that folks don't see, for example if I am with my wife and kids I have to think of their safety first.this is really what I mean by "Anything happening",,,,also you may get in a fight in an elevator or on a playing field even in a swimming pool.....but for training you should just use simple attacks and defences IMHO
That is why I am much more in favour of training for physicality, You know , hitting things, moving around, breaking distances down and stuff like that.
I had a private lesson with my Sifu last Sunday...and I was talking about Wooden Dummies..you may have seen them used by chunners.and we talked about conditioning using the dummy.....and he told me that half the class had asked him where to get Dummies from.......I said that they didn't interest me at all...for sure I'll use one when the time comes .but you really don't need one IMHO.
One thing that I would suggest for "Conditioning" is to either use small hand weights when you punch.or preferably train with Escrima sticks.these will improve your hand speed

Conditioning is only a by-product of the dummy work. Its main role is in entry and footwork...

Those who erroneously think WCK has little footwork, angling and leg moves will find dozens of leg techniques and lots of lateral/diagonal motion in this set.



Get that dummy! It represents a very important culmination of the concepts and mechanics in the system, and ties it all together in a single set..

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"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit

I guess one of the nice things about the dummy is that it is under your control ..if it hurts or gets boring then you can walk away..............ever use any Jow?........my friends getting me some " Iron strike" wine