open vs closed fist & why? (apologies to Rory)

A place to share ideas, concerns, questions, and thoughts about women and the martial arts.

Moderator: Megan Lieff

Postby MikeK » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:48 pm

JimHawkins wrote:I personally use the spear hand lead but I shy away from it when and if the occasion is serious or could become so--why?

1. I know there is a chance I might actually land on hard bone---ouch! I could break my fingers.

2. I know the chances of me landing the lead spear into the eye of the opponent is slim... Very small target..


Very true. To take care of that somewhat I keep the fingers relaxed and somewhat curved, with the palm facing a little forward. This way there is some give if you hit something hard, and if you hit too high on the head the fingers glance off still leaving the palm to hit them in the nose, forehead or at least in front of their eyes. One problem that some have with using fingers towards the eyes is that they keep their hand stiff and try to drive it in when it's not necessary, a quick, light flick or even a touch or tap is usually enough to get a reaction from the opponent, which has to be followed up with something more damaging. Like you said, make the connection and then go on the offense.


Btw: It's important and little known that wrapping the thumb under, as one 'grabs' any handle...will prevent smooth conversion from the grab to hitting with the same hand.. Anyone know why?


My preferred fist form when I'll be grabbing or shifting between open and closed hand forms.

Image

A Isshin-ryu fellow named Javier Martinez even makes an argument that the Issinryu fist may be indicating grabs in the kata.

Image

Image

Image
I was dreaming of the past...
MikeK
 
Posts: 3672
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:40 pm

Postby Van Canna » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:43 pm

This is a good read on punches :D

http://tinyurl.com/mwpvdn
Van
User avatar
Van Canna
 
Posts: 43648
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am

Postby JimHawkins » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:41 am

MikeK wrote:Very true. To take care of that somewhat I keep the fingers relaxed and somewhat curved, with the palm facing a little forward. This way there is some give if you hit something hard, and if you hit too high on the head the fingers glance off still leaving the palm to hit them in the nose, forehead or at least in front of their eyes. One problem that some have with using fingers towards the eyes is that they keep their hand stiff and try to drive it in when it's not necessary, a quick, light flick or even a touch or tap is usually enough to get a reaction from the opponent, which has to be followed up with something more damaging. Like you said, make the connection and then go on the offense.

Interesting, hey whatever works for you...

I like to enter with the fist also because it's consistent with the idea we use to throw only weapons which we intend to land.. IOW if for some strange reason my lead gets past their defense I want it to count lest there is a lost beat which can allow the opponent to convert, recover or continue his attack in that 'lost' beat...

My preferred fist form when I'll be grabbing or shifting between open and closed hand forms.

Image


The fists there are very similar to the fist I mentioned..

But I assume the contact point is the first two knuckles on the thumb side of the fist--as I recall from my reading on Isshin Ryu..

On the other hand hitting from the bottom with an up tilt offers a straight edge from fist to elbow. This can be helpful in sliding onto and issuing force/energy into the defense/offense, the contact splitting their center on the bridge...

So the thumb.. If you wrap it opposed the hand must first move back to disengage the thumb, then move forward to strike... Without the opposed thumb the hand can move forward undeterred to instantly strike from that location.. Also the opposing thumb grab can be vulnerable to joint manipulation specialists..
Shaolin
M Y V T K F
"Receive what comes, stay with what goes, upon loss of contact attack the line" – The Kuen Kuit
User avatar
JimHawkins
 
Posts: 2164
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:21 am
Location: NYC

Postby MikeK » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:21 am

JimHawkins wrote:Interesting, hey whatever works for you...


Exactly! Different people will find some hand forms work better for them than others because of physical attributes, ability in seeing and hitting targets, strategy, range, tactics, conditioning, experience and other factors to differing degrees. For me the technique works as a pre-emptive strike or at long hand range if the other guy is trying to keep from closing. If he's blitzing then it's on to elbows, knees and other things as the range has now changed.

JimHawkins wrote:I like to enter with the fist also because it's consistent with the idea we use to throw only weapons which we intend to land.. IOW if for some strange reason my lead gets past their defense I want it to count lest there is a lost beat which can allow the opponent to convert, recover or continue his attack in that 'lost' beat...


That's a very good approach. I intend to land everything too, but if I don't I do not mind getting a flinch, a blink or some other reaction that may help me get the follow ups in. 8)
I was dreaming of the past...
MikeK
 
Posts: 3672
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:40 pm

Wraps and punching.

Postby AAAhmed46 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:40 pm

What do you guys think of hand wraps when hitting the heavy bag?

Some boxers i talked to say you should always rap your hands, and that by not wrapping one will instinctivly pull back power in thier punches when hitting the heavy bag.


The other opinion i have heard is that by hitting the bag without wraps, you strengthen your wrists to take impact.


Any thoughts on wraps and punching?
AAAhmed46
 
Posts: 3498
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:49 pm
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Re: Wraps and punching.

Postby Jason Rees » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:15 pm

AAAhmed46 wrote:Some boxers i talked to say you should always rap your hands, and that by not wrapping one will instinctivly pull back power in thier punches when hitting the heavy bag.


For myself, I don't wrap. I worked my way up from hitting it lightly, until I could pummel at will without even thinking about my wrists.


AAAhmed46 wrote:The other opinion i have heard is that by hitting the bag without wraps, you strengthen your wrists to take impact.


I guess I'm in that camp. But I'm really interested in what somebody like Bill would have to say on the matter.
Life begins & ends cold, naked & covered in crap.
User avatar
Jason Rees
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1754
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:06 am
Location: USA

Postby AAAhmed46 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:54 pm

I'm on the fence.
AAAhmed46
 
Posts: 3498
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:49 pm
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Postby AAAhmed46 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:58 am

Been reading wim Demeeres(is that how you spell his name) book on heavy bag training. Talksa bout developing wrist strength using gloves first, then smaller gloves then hand wraps then bare hands.

Also talks about how some people can just go for it from day with all out, just by how they are built.

Guess i was over thinking it.


Great book, goes into this in great detail!
AAAhmed46
 
Posts: 3498
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:49 pm
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Postby Jake Steinmann » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:14 pm

I wrap my hands if I've doing long or seriously heavy amounts of bag or pad work. Otherwise, my hands feel like crap the next day.
User avatar
Jake Steinmann
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Newton, MA

Postby AAAhmed46 » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:49 pm

Jake Steinmann wrote:I wrap my hands if I've doing long or seriously heavy amounts of bag or pad work. Otherwise, my hands feel like crap the next day.


IVe sprained my wrist doing thai pad work before, so i know how you feel.
AAAhmed46
 
Posts: 3498
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:49 pm
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Previous

Return to Women and the Martial Arts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron