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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:47 am 
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Shana
The reason I showed the Satori aspect ;was from the sanchin perspective give my experience on slow in contrast to absolutley no knowledge of Satori and slow ,which also ties in with your questions " It sounds like a similarity to my Quigong practice and framing a spiritual practice".

My own inner attitude is based on satori ,which came through slow training on Sanchin just Sanchin ,I have no options but to explain in this mannerism to make it quite clear my position what slow actually means ,plus it would be extremley difficult for anyone to comment on the inner/external attitudes on the three year Sanchin unless one as actuall done it .
Its not your ordinary idea of what slow means ,plus I have attempted to explain the satori aspect of this specific training methodology .

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:19 pm 
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By slow do you mean super slow motion like a thrust might take 60 seconds to extend fully?

There are segments of our first set that is done traditionally this slow.. These sections of super slow are to ingrain an energy component.. IOW it's not a movement then but rather to cultivate a constant energy flow, vector and pressure within the tools...

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:34 pm 
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No Jim, not super slow ,with the inner attitude I have been relating any type of speed frame on movement could be embraced within this specific attitude ,and by the way Jim I have a lot of respect for you and your system .

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:37 pm 
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Thanks for the clarification and thank you very much for the compliment Max.. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:26 pm 
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harlan wrote:
Thank you for the replies. As for the 'opinion' part...that was a comment from what I now know to be just another internet VTG. But, it's comments like that that keep women, and beginners, from participating in forums.


And something, in my own small way, that I am trying to discourage. I hope you feel welcome here.

VTG?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:33 pm 
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JimHawkins wrote:
Shana Moore wrote:
What do you think is necessary for mastering a martial art?


Much more time than one is allotted in but one life...

Otherwise there is nothing mystical here. To get good in an art is no different than how one develops skill in any other physical activity: Lots of practice, good coaching and a healthy dose of innate ability doesn't hurt either....

Shana Moore wrote:
Do you think one should have a mental/spiritual depth or at least component to your martial art?


Yes and no..

There are many inner battles that folks must come to terms with.. IMO a good program should help students to move, step by step through whatever struggles they have inside or out... IMO most folks have the biggest issues when asked to take too large a step at one time.. Little by little, baby steps is key to a smooth advancement IMO..

A teacher of martial art can do many things but spiritual adviser is pushing it, especially on the commercial level...

Think boxing coach... Just because it comes from Asia it shouldn't be anymore mystical, magical or more of a spiritual experience than boxing is or training in any other sport, like gymnastics.. Humans are thinking machines and as such developing good physical performance means learning how to focus the mind..

Shana Moore wrote:
And lastly, is it up to the master or the student to frame this approach?


One can be given tips and pointers, you can be guided but the true inner and outer development is a solitary personal struggle and experience IMO.


Ah Jim, I am learning to truly appreciate your posts and point of view! :)

I agree that being from the Oriental world does not make something mystical in and of itself. I also think that the two do not necessarily go together, but they can. I think it depends on what you are seeking, and the teacher that you have. I do not think everyone wants the zen master who just happens to teach martial arts, but i'm sure some seek it. I was curious if folks thought it was important to Martial arts, a side effect, or completely separate.

i think it's pretty cool that we have mutlple perspectives respresented in this small sample size!

I ESPECIALLY like the way you approach learning in increments whether it be inner or outer battles. I would say that doesn't mean there won't be sudden leaps in understanding, but it's kinda like weight loss...most folks didn't get fat overnight, and they won't get slim overnight either (barring serious parasites or illness, that is :o :oops: ).

I guess true progress in martial arts, whether your focus be outer, inner, or both, is only obtained if you are in it for the long haul...and not the short flavour of the month.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:37 pm 
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Max (and do you prefer being called Max or Maxwell?),

So are you referring more to a mindfulness than an actual slow speed? It's not as much a timeframe as a state of being?

I've had rare instances in my beginning meditation practice and in my weaving where time loses meaning. It almost feels like time slows...but it's more that I am in total connection to what I am doing and/or my surroundings at that very moment.

Of course, as soon as I recognize that sensation, it goes away. 8O

Is that some of what you mean by slow?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:30 pm 
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Shana Moore wrote:
Max (and do you prefer being called Max or Maxwell?),

So are you referring more to a mindfulness than an actual slow speed? It's not as much a timeframe as a state of being?

I've had rare instances in my beginning meditation practice and in my weaving where time loses meaning. It almost feels like time slows...but it's more that I am in total connection to what I am doing and/or my surroundings at that very moment.

Of course, as soon as I recognize that sensation, it goes away. 8O


Shana ,only you and a carpenter at the firm I work for call me maxwell ,it really does not matter to me .

The reason I brought the satori experience into matters ,was among with the other things posted by myself was ; a type of source ,a real starting point for things spiritual ,along with its a confirming point ,with it you are more whole ,without one is fragmented to large degree,such as; I am mindfull now I have lost it ,mindfull was kept for ex amount of time ,then it vanished ,we now are aware of time in this context ,you the trainee arn't the MASTER yet ,with satori you see and embrace the Master within ,the Master is more whole ,not fragmented .

The Master is within time ,mindfullness is not lost, then found again and again its a constant that goes anywere any time .
The Master as a Will which was illuminated with satori ,prior to this satori there was singleness of purpose ,which can be now expressed as the Way .

Fragmented man as very little Will its in various degrees of fragmention ,I can watch my breathing for two hrs ,no breaks in attention ,yet this is not the Master who is as one with time ,inner struggle is at rest ,we now embrace something more of a constant .


Is that some of what you mean by slow?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:35 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:06 pm 
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A crucial point in this so called Slow training is to pin point methods that actually pinpoint the Will and work it .
So this involves direct employment of kick starting the will .

"As I said the "Master as a Will" but the novice as to get the will behind the training ,this will is fragmented ,but because you arn't aware of this Master inside, the training must constantly pinpoint it .test this fragmented will .

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:25 pm 
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Right , so we are going to target the Will slowly but surely ,now this just might give some meaning to slow training ,in relationship to inner and things that underlay technique .
Initially I may just see a group of techniques ,but I don't give much thought to the Will ,okay I feel it here and there ,buts thats about it, I am more interested in these techiniques etc.

I give more thought and attention to the Will when off color or down with a bout of flu ,if I only had the Will to shake this flu period of and feel better and get back to my techniques ,and life in general ,I just have not got the Will to go out Friday night .
Feeling great now ,the Will is already being forgot.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:57 pm 
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It never really created thought at the time why I forgot so quick ,we would travel miles to learn another new techinque ,we lived in a world of technique ,everything was a technique ,whats ya favorite technique ? just watch his mawashi geri its leathal etc.

He must have put a lot a work into that ,get on the receiving end of the technique was curtains ,I found out to my cost , but really it was all shallow no principles at .

Principles ;hey thats a new word ,must look that up in the dictionary ,hmm. Sanchin contains principles , wow thats it then ,who does Sanchin ?now it was all principles ,a principle for this principle for that , technique was now taking a back seat to the new buzz word principle .
Sheer greed for technique had turned full circle ,to greed for principle ,hey its not greed its learning a good mate said to me, we were as poor as church mouses has kids ,I know greed when see it , can smell a good mile way ,the indian in me .

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:06 pm 
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Sanchin is a principle a mate said ? no some one said its ,principles ,I am thinking too much talk too much speculation ,not enough actuall work /practice ,getting stuck in seemed like a better principle at the time to me .
Actions speak louder than words ,thats my motto my principle . Exmount of months later I was feeling something other than a principle ,something that was driving the principle ,anyway I always had a great deal of respect for this Dan grade with the leathal mawashi geri and obvious a typical dash of fear sprinkled in there , I bumped in to him on a fri night out ,he knew what I was doing in training etc, and he got very agressive /and cocky ,I said out side then we will sort this out ,at that moment I knew it was gonna be tecgnique v the Will , all my old fear had vanished along with any respect ,he was now facing a pretty strong will plus my own technique coupled to a principle ,he backed down and wimped off into the night .

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:41 pm 
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So there is a slow targeting of the Will ,in contrast to a slow targeting of a technique ,a big difference hey ,mentioned it like this to just take the mind away from the technique ,we cling to things thats all .

I feel the Will ,but feeling for the technique shoves it into second place ,l then lose the feel for the technique ,I persist then the Will reappears from no were ,or so it seem's ,my ego butts in on this ,thoughts swirl around like lights on a merry go round ,I can pack in any time I want ,I am even beginning now to forget my principle or motto "get stuck in " but my spirit is rejuvenated when I tell myself I Will do this .
My Will returns with a new vengance .

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:42 pm 
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Interesting thoughts and perspective Max. The "ego butting in" part I can relate to in my meditation practice (really attempts at this point, but ah well). Thank you.

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