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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 1998 2:49 am 
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Location: Mount Dora, Florida
(Posted by GEM)
My name is Dejanira Zaccagni and I studied Chinese Language and Literature at the "Istituto Universitario Orientale" of
Naples. In the domain of my studies of Chinese History I'm probing "The Contemporary Women Attitude toward Love and Sex and its Expression in Mass Media". Mr. Paolo Santangelo is following my research.

I would like to ask You how to find publications relating to the subject of my study. I hope You can help me. Thank You
sincerely,

Dejanira Zaccagni


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 1998 2:52 am 
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(posted by gem)
George san ,

Is Dejanira in this country or still in Italy ! I like to know her views as they apply to contemporary European women as opposed to Anglo Saxon women , and how any difference is expressed in European media vs. American media !Who is Paolo Santangelo and where is he domicilied at ?

Best ,

Van Canna


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 1998 2:54 am 
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From: J. D. Morenski
Date: 16 Sep 1998
Time: 05:22:56
Remote Name: 140.142.181.40

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GEM, Van Canna,

This lady should start with Goffman's (sp?) --check social sciences and sociology. The U. of C(hicago) press has some of his stuff. He is "dated" in the he has pass'd on. Then check his critics. That should be a good start.

--J.D.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 1998 11:12 pm 
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Thank you for the information on Dejanira Zaccagni of Italy ! I will contact her in Naples and see if She is willing to share her research with us on Lori’s forum ! Her work should be fascinating as I know how the European / Latin minds get into these things ….much different than the American views !

CASE IN POINT: today it was a beautiful day in Boston and I had a business lunch with four female high powered insurance executives of diverse backgrounds ! One of them is hiring me to investigate and manage a claim of wrongful death resulting from a killing in self defense in the Midwest ! The lunch meeting took place at the famous Quincy market … open air tables … piano bar and multicultural crowds swishing by in sweet harmony of contrasted international accents and mannerism !

As Lewinsky-gate reared it’s ugly head , a debate ensued among the usually demure ‘ all business’ minds … about love and sex and ‘ a man and a woman ‘ presumably triggered by the sensual imaging of the moment and as spearheaded by ‘Maria’ , a fiery , stylish , forty - something , Cuban import ! She argued passionately about her refusal to read the “Starr” report of graphic sex between Monica and Bill , that it would be a total intrusion to do so , that Americans have a very homespun view in matters of romance and primal drives…that most of the times they go hand in hand ; that Americans have difficulty remaining open to emotion , that they fail to accept the fact that as we grow ..we change ….that there are mysterious natural forces at work totally overwhelming …spawning suffocating needs which, if allowed to blossom >>bring us to a new level of ‘the beautiful life’ in stunning emotional discovery and awe !

She went on to observe that just such a discussion was creating the effect of immediate environment change i.e. , the company of friends becoming more intimate , the colors of the day taking on richer hues , time slowing down , the jazz notes from the piano overpowering in discernment of the senses ! And then she concluded that handling such awesome inner force called for a certain maturity of emotional platform which most Americans are sorely lacking as evidenced by the hideous , titillating invasion of privacy of Monica and Bill !

This , by the way , is the prevailing Italian and French view , along with the Latin !

Van Canna


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 1998 11:34 am 
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Location: Boston, MA
Van sensei,

I agree with your friend about the intrusion into the "privacy" of the Bill/Monica liaison. I have not and will not read the details of it, though I cannot avoid hearing some of "details" that are being discussed just about every where.

From what I can gather, much of this whole thing could have been avoided had Mr. Clinton stated right off that he had an "affair" with Ms. Lewinsky and make a stand to go no further in discussing a private matter. Instead, he possibily lied or played word games, under oath. This provided the ammunition to his enemies to dump the intimate details onto our laps.

It is also true that the exploration of our "passions" can lead to a deeper understanding of ourselves and possibilty further personal growth. These explorations, however, must be undertaken with honesty and due consideration of others who can be very much impacted by our actions. The "explorer" must have a certain level of maturity and judgment to balance the passion unless the explorer wishes to put himself and others at risk with his/her actions.

What stands out to me in this whole affair (no pun intended) is the lack of judgment and honesty by those involved. Mr. Clinton was not honest with his wife. He probably was not honest with Ms. Lewinsky or we would not have this public disclosure of her whining and pining. Mr. Clinton, in retrospect, lacked judgment in letting himself fall for and become involved in the desires of a young woman who clearly lacked the maturity to handle discretely such an affair. He became infatuated with a young woman who seemed to be infatuated with his power (Would she have been interested if he were private citizen Clinton?). The underlying lack of reciprocity or relative equality of emotional resources was a recipe for a personal and public disaster.

I am not opposed to nor really interested in what people do in their personal lives, as long as it doesn't directly impact me or others. "Spillage" generally will not occur when the personal relationship is entered into by two mature, consenting adults with an underlying basis of reciprocity or equality. But, when maturity, reciprocity and honesty are missing, well...

There are lessons to be learned from this affair and can be applied to our practices and daily lives.

david


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 1998 8:38 pm 
Hi Yall,

Frankly I don't give a hoot about the private lives of anyone else whehter Bill fooled around on Hillary or vice-versa. Its their lives and they should deal with these issues, no one else except for maybe Chelsea.

The Zippergate incident has nothing to do with sex but everything to do with a group of people who want this person out of office in the worst way and will do anything including grasping at straws to do so.

Additionally, I feel that this whole episode got out of hand is because there is tons of money to be made from such a juicy story which masks what I think is an attempt by some to ruin him and by others to get him out. This sex business masks the while issue and the media is having fun with it. Besides, there are no major world conflicts to talk about right now and these stories fill gaps between important incidents. Let Iran and Afganistan go at it and you will forget about the Clintons real fast as the world turns.

I'm not condoning the actions, just feel something is badly focused here...

Just a humble opinion!

Allen


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 1998 5:25 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 1998 6:01 am
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Location: Florida
To All:

Oh, please! Shall we look at the facts?

* Clinton was a federal employee(Commander-In-Chief?) who broke all the fed management personnel guidelines in allowing this relationship to build. A textbook case that in any other environment would have found him canned. Consensual? Not supposed to be possible under new fangled sexual harassment guidelines where the superior abuses power. As commander-in-chief, he may have broken the military rules of adultery and consorting with non-officers and could have been court-martialed if he were not Pres.

* An indescretion? Hmmm, what if ML was a Soviet operative, or militant group operative whose blackmail/extortion was for more than a nice job? Like giving China technological secrets. Wait, that's already happened...More like blatant, reckless judgement that could have placed our national security in jeopardy.

* It's about private, sexual matters? I don't think so! Isn't it about lying under oath, perhaps full blown perjury? Isn't it about possible witness tampering, obstruction of justice, stonewalling the grand jury?

* But the economy, things are running smoothly, let's not rock the boat with resignation or impeachment? How about blind luck or the fact that a few of the policies of Congress might have something to do with things.

* The Starr report is disgusting, what's wrong with Starr? Excuse, me, did we forget something - like maybe the guy who actually did this stuff - like maybe Clinton!

Anybody going to be watching 9:00 am Monday?

Wait a minute?What forum is this? Women in the Military? Oops,


John


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