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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 1998 1:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 875
Last night - a 16 year old boy from a professional, religious, pillar of the community type family was arrested on multiple rape and molestation charges involving girls ages 12-14. He forced them to commit various sex acts on him and restrained them in various ways. He is over 6 feet tall, 170 pounds, clean cut, well spoken, an athlete, a good student - and no one would have ever suspected - I know - I let my daughter spend the night over at his house once because his sister was/is my daughter's best friend! (He was not home that weekend!) Thank God my daughter is unscathed - and yes! I am sure about that - but I know of other little girls - know one of them personally, who is very dear to me - who are not. I want to rip out his throat. He is lucky he is in custody.

Just when I said I wasn't going to get personal - but I am venting some incredible rage here - and now I am going to the dojo to vent some more. Sometimes this world really *****!!!

Where is peace? Really?
Lori


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 1998 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 311
Location: Washington DC area, USA
My heart goes out to you.

I know if it were someone in my community who hurt children that I knew, AND could have possibly hurt my child I would be furious!!!!!!!!

Take care,

Cecil


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 1998 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 670
Clean cut pillar of the community, religious... sounds like Ted Bundy or in Boston, the infamous altar boy Eddie O'Brien who in the opinion of at least one shrink was a serial killer who got caught after his first victim.

Everyone is lucky he is behind bars, but for how long? Up here he could be tried as an adult, I hope FLA has the same laws. Craig Price, a monster from Rhode Island killed three people as a juvy and was nearly let out when he hit 21. Someone had the sense to keep him in on some infractions he committed while in jail.

I have two daughters and I cannot even begin to feel your rage and overpowering emotions when you consider "what if?"

Give your daughter another hug.

VTY

Kevin


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 1998 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 35
Lori

to see into ourselves and others truthfully we must accept what occurs, we don't have to like it, but we must not deny it... when we see what occurs, we may hope to see the myriad causes and may begin to relieve the suffering or some appropriate thing... that is the peace of the moment

joseph


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 1998 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 18, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 619
Lori,

As a mom my heart goes out to you and all whose children's fire has been crossed. The insanity just doesn't make sense. And it really bothers me that we seem to be hearing about crimes from teens and younger more and more.

The meaning of peace is illusive and escapes me, too, sometimes. From an old Norse word that means to fasten or bind together. It reminds me to show love to those who are bound to my life and dance in my heart.

It reminds me that when one of us hurts, we all do. Lori ... I send you a hug and I share your tears and hurt. Love, Jackie


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 1998 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 875
UPDATE

Thank you for the words of support/encouragement. Things are still in quite a turmoil here - since the accused was first arrested, 6 more girls came forward and the one that I know isn't one of those. Meanwhile the little sister of this creep is hardly holding it together - and then my daughter is concerned for them both... and there are other girls involved that they know also. It is really, really weird to have something like this hit so close to home.

He is still in custody, without bond - a decision is being made whether or not to try him as an adult - hearing set for December 1.

The father issued some type of statement today (he's a lawyer) denying his son's culpability and calling the accusations false and part of a "sexual hysteria". He didn't hear the tears of the little girl who confessed the disgusting details to me the other night - too afraid and embarrassed to tell her own mother. (She did finally after we spoke...)

I will be seeking counseling for the girls come monday - with the mothers' permission - perhaps the girls will find strength in numbers in trying to deal with this mess.

In the meantime I am just trying to be an ear and a shoulder and welcoming arms for these girls - so far they are anxious to take me up on it.

Wishing for peace,
Lori


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 1998 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 244
Location: Marblehead, MA USA
Lori, sorry to hear about this 16 yr old but unfortunately it exists. At least it came up fast not like these idiots that claim a priest or rabbi cornholed them 30 years ago and their lives have been a "hell every day" until they were compen$ated.
Have faith in the system. Or else post his bail and spend some time with him to try and "understand" him. I'm interested in what your husband thinks about it.
Don't change,Mike.


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 1998 6:13 pm 
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Posts: 875
Mr. Hurney,

Thanks for your condolences, but as you say "it exists." How we deal with it is the crux of the matter. The situation described in this thread is all too common today and it is all too easy to jump to conlusions. Each and every story had 3 sides - your side, my side, and the truth. We will never know the entire truth of this story - or any other that makes it to the public - but I do know the truth of what I have seen - and the pain now is no different in it's intensity than someone who was molested 30 years ago and has been living with it! These girls will carry the burden of the shame and guilt with them forever! Perhaps forever trashing their potential to have a healthy relationship with a man! There is absolutely no "better" "worse" or "at least" scenario here. Those that are falsely accused of crimes like these suffer as well as true victims and not those looking for some lawsuit $$$$.

So what can be the lesson in this? I know of one girl who was also wowed by this guy's charms - yet when approached by him in a more forward manner was able to respond strongly and forcibly staving off an emotionally injurious situation. Another little girl I know - where things were much much worse - does not have that self assurance. Driving home the point once more that

PREDATORS WANT VICTIMS NOT ADVERSARIES!!!

We all need to get this point across to our youth - straight out of the Gift of Fear - (Excellent book - should be required reading in all middle schools!) Along with the point that "no" means just that - NO and not "well, keep trying and maybe I'll give in!" Hormones aside - sure - I'll bet many of these girls were flattered by the attention - but lines need to be defined, drawn and enforced - and our children need to KNOW that when the lines get blurry, NO has got to mean NO and nothing else.

And we ALL need to remember not to make assumptions.

Peace,
Lori


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 1998 6:06 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 181
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Whoa! Victims are idiots? Please, grab a calendar, check out what era you are in, and recognize IQ or lack thereof has niether nexus nor correlation to being a victim. Last time I checked, predators didn't ask to see a Mensa card before deciding on a victim. Nor, do most victims choose the time and place of their healing. Thirty years doesn't seem too long to me. Nor does requiring a predator to compensate the victim seem unreasonable. What would you suggest a person who had been victimized as a child by a person in a position of trust and authority do? Remove them from them from their mailing list? Rebuke them severly?
Peace.


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 1998 6:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 875
Robb-san,

To whom are you addressing these questions?

I don't see where anyone in this thread called victims "idiots" or suggested that victims do not deserve some type of compensation...

IQ has nothing to do with a victim mentality - self confidence does.

You obviously feel strongly about this - that is good! Please clarify your remarks for the benefit of all.

Peace,
Lori


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 1998 11:28 am 
Hello Lori.

This is just an aside, another observation.

Earlier this week, while riding the subway, I heard several muffled screams from a teenage girl. Then I heard her yell 'rape' twice and everyone's eyes swung in the direction as the second call went out. There at the end of the subway car were a group of teenagers, both boys and girls.
As everyone turned to look, the group in the corner started smirking and laughing; it was just a big joke to them. When they got off at the next stop, we, the remaining passengers, looked at each other with smile-less crooked faces; no joke to us. I immediately wondered if they, the teens, hadn't laughed but persisted, would have sucked someone in. The time of day was wrong, but it could have been a perfect ambush to hit someone over the head and take his money.

I have four children, two are parents and one is a grandparent. When they were younger I worried about them, esp. about my daughter. Two of them had close calls by perverts. The one thing which carried a lot of mileage in preventing a catastrophe was that the local public school system educated children about such things and urged parents to openly discuss this and work out strategies of escape, etc. Not foolproof, but definitely a step in the right direction.

Allen


[This message has been edited by moulton (edited 11-20-98).]


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 1998 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 181
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Lori San,

I am referring to Mr. Hurney who stated, "not like these idiots that claim a priest or rabbi cornholed them 30 years ago and their lives have been a "hell every day" until they were compen$ated." Perhaps I have miscontrued his comment, but it appears to me he is referring to victims as idiots.
Peace.


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 1998 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 875
Robb-san,

Thanks for clarifying - perhaps Mr. Herney would care to elaborate somewhat.

J.D.-san,

Thanks for the commentary! The crime is indeed despicable and so are those who would make false accusations of the same! It is indeed a rough life - and how to separate the wheat from the chaff to protect the innocent...

Indeed we must be careful when using humor as it relates to these subjects - what one may find funny another may find a personal attack, (reference a certain "scotch" thread on another forum!) or it may strike a chord somewhere and cause further pain. It becomes even more important to keep the lines of communication open to clear up misunderstandings. My feelings on the use of humor here is that sometimes it is necessary to get over an uncomfortable situation, but all must be careful not to get too personal - to hell with politically correct - be honest, speak from the heart, and let the chips fall where they may as long as you're willing to stand by your words. (this is the collective "you" mind you) These forums are a place to explore the issues - not personal lives - find an aol chat room or a psychologist for those subjects. As for humor when dealing with such an emotionally charged subject - your words of caution are well taken J.D.-san - I hope by all.

Peace,
Lori


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 1998 4:58 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 181
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Anthony,

I would be the last person to advocate any particular level of English composition skills requirement. And, again, if I misread Mr. Hurney's post, I apologize. On the other hand, while this and other forums afford us a freedom of communication our founding fathers would find remarkable (and I hope embrace), free speech has never meant speech without constraint.

If I overreacted to Mr. Hurney, it was because too often we blame victims for being, well victims. And though there are clearly cases were these recollections of past abuse are either fantasy, suggestion of some well meaning therapist, or blatant attempts at extortion, there are cases where persons were abused as children and the only defense available was to suppress the hurt and suffering; to bury the pain and anger so deeply that even after thirty years it remains an ever present scar that cannot heal.

Lori's rage, the impetus of this thread, is shared by anyone with any sense of morality and decency. That she has also tempered her rage with compassion for the victims seems similarly a response we can all applaud.

I also share Mr. Hurney's frustration with those that would abuse the courts for their own gain. But, I am very grateful that those courts are there, and that those courts are open to all, even the idiots. While the courts cannot change the past for those who have been victims, the judicial system can provide some closure.

Peace.


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 Post subject: Raging Mother Bear
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 1998 7:58 am 
I don't think that anyone has any sympathy for false accusations and the devastation that they cause. However, the cry is for people who post to stand up for their words. Mr. Mike Hurney made the following statement:

"At least it came up fast not like these idiots that claim a priest or rabbi cornholed them 30 years ago and their lives have been a "hell every day" until they were compen$ated."

Pardon me, but it reads very clearly. Those people who were abused and threatened into silence as children, who now as adults can stand up and point a finger at the depraved %^&$% who assaulted them are "idiots". This is proven because they hit them where it is easest and hurts the most -- the pocket book. I have no doubt that in any litigation venue there will be those in it for just the $, but I suggest Mr. Hurney do some research into abuse victims. I have dealt with real victims and yes, that abuse did affect their entire lives.

The comment made blankets all victims who come forward to stop those priest etc. who are surpassingly STILL OUT THERE until they force the issue.

Is my interpretation wrong Mr. Hurney? If so please clarify, if not, I am with Robb on this one and no humour seen and no apology made.

Rick


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