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 Post subject: Respect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 1998 12:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 1897
Location: N. Andover, Ma. USA
Lori Chan,

I am new to the Japanese terms, yet do not want to place disrespect with my ignorance, would you please enlighten me on the proper title for an honored Female as yourself.

The use of "San" for men, I understand to mean Honorable, (Please correct me if I am wrong), so then what connotations does Chan have for Women. Also if in past posts I have insulted you by the use of "San" I offer my apologies.

Evan Pantazi


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 Post subject: Respect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 1998 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 875
Evan-san,

Ah this tricky respect thing! Don't worry about any unintended insult - I do not take offense at the use of -san, on the contrary, it is what I understand to be the traditional polite form of address for male or female adults - in my Japanese phrase book it is translated as: Mr. Mrs. or Miss. (There is a decided lack of gender in the Japanese language - unlike the latin/romance languages we are more familiar with.) We started using it as a form of address in our dojo for senior students before we learned the term "sempai" (older brother) and as you've noted - I use the -san suffix on the forums as an extension of respect to all participants (well the ones that are acting respectfully anyway!) Since we have now adapted the "sempai" term in our dojo for senior students, we use the -san suffix for all students of adult age.

The -chan suffix however, to my understanding, is a less formal suffix, generally used for children, close friends and sweethearts! I could be mistaken here, perhaps it is used more for female friends; not being personally acquainted with modern Japanese/Okinawan culture I am not an expert by any means - only a hobbyist of foreign language and I have been dabbling in Japanese for some time on my own - hence my -san/-chan usage. Currently we use -chan for the children in the dojo.

I would welcome clarification from anyone with knowledge on the subject to continue my education on language - but in the meantime please do not concern yourself with how you address me in your posts - you have always displayed the utmost respect in everything I have read of yours on these forums, and I am pleased that you share your knowledge with us here in this arena. Feel free to address me as Lori if you wish - we are fellow uechi-ka after all, and martial artists all the same.

Thank you for participating AND for your politeness!

Peace,
Lori


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 Post subject: Respect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 1998 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Lori and Evan: My dictionary says -chan is a suffix used to express intimacy and affection. It is also used as "a diminutive for children and pets."
Sounds like your usage is correct.
Happy New Year.
Rich


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 Post subject: Respect
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 1999 12:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 18, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 619
Lori-san, Evan-san, and RC-san,

Therefore, someone could call me Jackie Chan!! :} Couldn't resist!

Thanks for the clarification on terms.

<font=color=blue>HAPPY NEW YEAR</f>


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 Post subject: Respect
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 1999 1:40 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Heh-heh-heh. Much lighter and more enjoyable than what is evolving elsewhere on the forums.
Rich


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 Post subject: Respect
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 1999 10:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 405
Location: Tewksbury, MA USA
Evan-sensei & Group:

I'm just now getting caught up on the Forums and taking a look into some of the fascinating discussions taking place on George-sensei's Web. Awesome.

Knowing a bit about the Japanese language myself and knowing how seriously Lori-sensei takes her role as "woman" in the martial arts, I must admit that I was extremely surprised to see Evan-sensei's "Lori-chan" in the original post. That is, of course, until I thought harder about the fact that it was Evan who wrote it.

Bar none, Evan Pantazi is the kindest, most polite individual I have ever met in the martial arts. Evan owes me no respect, but that never keeps him from showing me more than my share--whether it be on the Net, at summer camps, or in our infrequent meetings here at home. Recognizing this, I know, as all of you know, that Evan would never knowingly insult anyone on these Forums or anywhere else.

That said, without launching into any longwinded discourse on Japanese, it is inappropriate for adult men to address adult women as "chan", unless they share some deeply intimate bond. (I originally thought that I might have missed some inside joke between Evan and Lori while I was away.)

Older men sometimes refer to (all) younger women with the "chan" suffix, but rather than being demeaning, it's a lot like calling Jennifer at the office "Jenny". You know, kind of "cutesie".

Still, please avoid referring to all but school age girls as "chan". Boys of this age, or "kohai" at the dojo or office can be referred to as "[name]-kun".

Everyone else on these Forums and in your lives should be referred to to as -san, -sensei, -shihan (in the martial arts only, of course) and the like.

Please let me know if I can clarify/be of more help.

Yoroshiku,

Gary


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 Post subject: Respect
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 1897
Location: N. Andover, Ma. USA
Khoury Sensei,

Wow, I said that? Pardon me Lori "Sensei" and My wishes for all a great new year!

Evan Pantazi


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 Post subject: Respect
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 1999 5:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
J.D.: " Light and refreshing"? Hmmmmmm.... Well, maybe your editor could find a way to keep the word count down. Perhaps we could label some of the exchanges with "Caution, can cause drowsiness." (A Joke, heheheheh).
Rich


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