Lori:
I ordered De Becker's book. I have just one child. I know you are a Mom in difficult times.
Just when, do you think, should we really apprise our children of the true dangers and "really bad things" that comprise a part of the world they will deal with.
I just wanted your thoughts. Elizabeth is eleven.
48 Hours just had two real heartening and heartbreaking stories about State Police Sargent Nagle "breaking" two "cold" cases. By coincidence, Sargent Nagle is the Son of the former Chief of the Plymouth Police. he never forgot the incidnet in the Park which occurred long before he was a police officer.
Mullin and Masters were the names of the cases.
Mrs. Masters went off for a ride on her bike in Myles Standish State Park in 1978, and was ambushed and killed. Just this year, Sergeant Nagle believes they they found the perpetrator, and they indicted him.
By "gods grace" he was in prison for a similar crime in Maine.
I know it sounds paranoid, but I NEVER EVER after that incident let my wife or daughter bike around in relatively remote parks without me, and without me being armed, even if with just a heavy cane.
My friend Arch in 1972 or so lost his girl friend who decided to hike a trail alone in the White Hills (NH) --she did not come back, I won't relate too many unnecessary details, but the theory remanins she was the victim of a "copycat" of T. Bundy. Arch still talks of it even though he is married now.
I certainly want to read DeBecker and I wish my wife to as well.
JOHN
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[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited 06-29-99).]
[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited 06-29-99).]
When Comes Childhoods End?
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JOHN THURSTON
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
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When Comes Childhoods End?
John-san,
Poignant thoughts for a Tuesday morning! But important - very much so - and thoughts that each parent cannot afford to ignore.
When to inform our children about the harsh realities of this world? Difficult to answer! So many variables enter in - daily routine, interaction with the public, maturity level of the child, time spent alone, and even the environment they are living in - although the worst can happen even in the best neighborhoods!
This is an issue I have struggled with as a parent as well - and I'm still not sure I know the best answer - I can only operate from my own instincts. I feel strongly as a parent and a teacher that truth and education go hand in hand - the hard part is to decide how much information to impart at what time.
My feelings on "safety education" are that it is never too soon to start giving children survival skills. Some of them can be put into a game or role-playing format. I've already started some basics with my toddler! How or when to say NO (Not to hard for a two-year-old) is one skill - not just as a game of defiance, but also as a "what-if" game... if someone tried to take you in their car, what would you say? NO! If your ball goes into the street will you run after it? NO! (get mommy) All kinds of "what-ifs" can be used, and certainly, at that tender of an age, they cannot really comprehend the meaning behind the game. But it's a foundation.
My own personal philosophy on how much information to give is this - I will give as much truth as the child wants and is able to ask for. For example, on the old "birds and the bees" routine, a very young child asks where babies come from and the first answer can be simple, devoid of details, because that may be all the child needs at the time. At age 4 or 5 they don't need the biology film, but a simple honest answer may be enough at the time. As the child grows and questions, more details can be provided as they indicate their readiness. In my opinion, the same method can be applied to safety training with the codicil that as parents, we are responsible for ensuring their safety and, while not terrifying the little ones and robbing them of all their innocence, just as we would teach them that touching a hot stove will hurt them, we need to get across some basic ideas of safety as well. Again, only as much as the child can handle and is ready for - which depends greatly upon the parent's intuition and guidance. A 4 or 5 year old does not need to hear the grisly details of a rape and mutilation murder, but they CAN hear that some people in the world hurt people, and mom and dad want to protect them and teach them how to help protect themselves.
DeBecker addresses this in Protecting the Gift - in the chapter "The Changing of the Gurard," where he writes: "How and when they learn is as important as what they learn." He goes on to quote a Dr. Ava Siegler who sums it up by saying: "While the mind is capable of absorbing all kinds of new experiences--indeed even thrives on stimulation--too much too soon can heighten the child's fear of the unknown and prevent the child from developing a sense of security in himself and his world."
So where does that leave us? Be honest with our kids but not too honest? DeBecker makes a great point about how far we go to protect our kids - we wouldn't want them to witness violence first hand, but we let them see in gruesome detail on the evening news the results of this violence - bodies, killings, abductions, etc. DeBecker recommends and I agree that the evening news should be rated R in houses with children (turn the damn thing off!)
So it comes down to a moving line that the parents must draw and adjust as the child matures. A helpless baby that cannot even walk must depend upon the parent for all aspects of their safety. As that child grows and begins to "stretch their wings" by playing outside with friends, or walking to school, they can take on more responsiblity for their safety. Not ALL, but SOME. Parents can still take measures like actually MEETING the parents of the children our child plays with. Not allowing overnights without knowing the circumstances and the people in the house as well as possible (even then it is risky!) But at this point the child is not in our sight at all times. We can send them out blindly or prepare them to the best of our ability. There are many wonderful suggestions in DeBecker's book as to how and what to present to our kids - I wish they gave this book out at the hospital with every new baby!
One example of the gradual approach used in the book was that of a mother whose son liked to get a hot dog from a vendor every day after school. First she bought the hot dogs for him, then she stood next to him while he bought them. Then she stood a few paces back while he made the purchase, eventually watching from the car and finally parking the car across the street so that the child would have to cross the street after making the purchase independently (while she watched!) This does a couple things - gives the child more confidence in his ability and lets the parent see the child making decisions that they can discuss and refine.
Another technique from the book that I really like is an expansion on the previous example - when out together on a shopping trip, the parent can give the child small tasks to perform, such as finding out what time it is from someone. The child chooses a stranger, finds out the time and tells the parent. Then the parent can discuss with the child why he chose that particular person, what made them feel comfortable asking them, why they didn't choose someone else, etc. (This expands on the idea that teaching our children to fear strangers is off-base - instead we need to help our children CHOOSE who to ask for help - for someday they may really need assistance, and better that the CHILD chooses rather than a predator choosing the child as a potential victim!) (Also, to choose a WOMAN to ask for help.)
DeBecker lists "The Test of Twelve" as a guideline or starting point. Children are NOT initially equipped to take responsiblity for their own safety. But there does come a day when the child can start to take a more active role. It is a gradual process and only the parent can truly know when and what they are ready to learn. I list the "Test of Twelve" here as a starting point.
The Test of Twelve
Do your children know...
1. How to honor their feelings--if someone makes them uncomfortable, that's an important signal;
2. You (the parents) are strong enough to hear about any experience they've had, no matter how unpleasant;
3. It's okay to rebuff and defy adults;
4. It's okay to be assertive;
5. How to ask for assistance or help;
6. How to choose who to ask;
7. How to describe their peril;
8. It's okay to strike, even to injure, someone if they believe they are in danger, and that you'll support any action they take as a result of feeling uncomfortable or afraid;
9. It's okay to make noise, scream, to yell, to run;
10. If someone ever tries to force them to go somewhere, what they should scream should include, "This is not my father" (because onlookers seeing a child scream or even struggle are likely to assume the adult is a parent);
11. If someone says "Don't yell," the thing to do is yell (and the corollary: If someone says "Don't tell," the thing to do is tell);
12. To fully resist ever going anywhere out of public view with someone they don't know, and particularly to resist going anywhere with someone who tries to persuade them.
Many of these can be worked into a children's karate class. I do not teach my children's classes as "self-defense" but integrate concepts like these when and where appropriate. Just as we don't teach a child that a specific technique is designed to kill, the concepts of karate STILL involve fighting, and part of on instructor's responsiblity, in my opinion is to say WHEN. I don't make it the emphasis of the class, (karate should be FUN at this age!) but I do interject concepts from the "test of twelve" to kids and parents whenever I get a chance.
Long answer to your post John-san! You will enjoy the book - please feel free to bring up any and all comments you have here.
Thanks for the thought-provoking question!
Peace,
Lori
Poignant thoughts for a Tuesday morning! But important - very much so - and thoughts that each parent cannot afford to ignore.
When to inform our children about the harsh realities of this world? Difficult to answer! So many variables enter in - daily routine, interaction with the public, maturity level of the child, time spent alone, and even the environment they are living in - although the worst can happen even in the best neighborhoods!
This is an issue I have struggled with as a parent as well - and I'm still not sure I know the best answer - I can only operate from my own instincts. I feel strongly as a parent and a teacher that truth and education go hand in hand - the hard part is to decide how much information to impart at what time.
My feelings on "safety education" are that it is never too soon to start giving children survival skills. Some of them can be put into a game or role-playing format. I've already started some basics with my toddler! How or when to say NO (Not to hard for a two-year-old) is one skill - not just as a game of defiance, but also as a "what-if" game... if someone tried to take you in their car, what would you say? NO! If your ball goes into the street will you run after it? NO! (get mommy) All kinds of "what-ifs" can be used, and certainly, at that tender of an age, they cannot really comprehend the meaning behind the game. But it's a foundation.
My own personal philosophy on how much information to give is this - I will give as much truth as the child wants and is able to ask for. For example, on the old "birds and the bees" routine, a very young child asks where babies come from and the first answer can be simple, devoid of details, because that may be all the child needs at the time. At age 4 or 5 they don't need the biology film, but a simple honest answer may be enough at the time. As the child grows and questions, more details can be provided as they indicate their readiness. In my opinion, the same method can be applied to safety training with the codicil that as parents, we are responsible for ensuring their safety and, while not terrifying the little ones and robbing them of all their innocence, just as we would teach them that touching a hot stove will hurt them, we need to get across some basic ideas of safety as well. Again, only as much as the child can handle and is ready for - which depends greatly upon the parent's intuition and guidance. A 4 or 5 year old does not need to hear the grisly details of a rape and mutilation murder, but they CAN hear that some people in the world hurt people, and mom and dad want to protect them and teach them how to help protect themselves.
DeBecker addresses this in Protecting the Gift - in the chapter "The Changing of the Gurard," where he writes: "How and when they learn is as important as what they learn." He goes on to quote a Dr. Ava Siegler who sums it up by saying: "While the mind is capable of absorbing all kinds of new experiences--indeed even thrives on stimulation--too much too soon can heighten the child's fear of the unknown and prevent the child from developing a sense of security in himself and his world."
So where does that leave us? Be honest with our kids but not too honest? DeBecker makes a great point about how far we go to protect our kids - we wouldn't want them to witness violence first hand, but we let them see in gruesome detail on the evening news the results of this violence - bodies, killings, abductions, etc. DeBecker recommends and I agree that the evening news should be rated R in houses with children (turn the damn thing off!)
So it comes down to a moving line that the parents must draw and adjust as the child matures. A helpless baby that cannot even walk must depend upon the parent for all aspects of their safety. As that child grows and begins to "stretch their wings" by playing outside with friends, or walking to school, they can take on more responsiblity for their safety. Not ALL, but SOME. Parents can still take measures like actually MEETING the parents of the children our child plays with. Not allowing overnights without knowing the circumstances and the people in the house as well as possible (even then it is risky!) But at this point the child is not in our sight at all times. We can send them out blindly or prepare them to the best of our ability. There are many wonderful suggestions in DeBecker's book as to how and what to present to our kids - I wish they gave this book out at the hospital with every new baby!
One example of the gradual approach used in the book was that of a mother whose son liked to get a hot dog from a vendor every day after school. First she bought the hot dogs for him, then she stood next to him while he bought them. Then she stood a few paces back while he made the purchase, eventually watching from the car and finally parking the car across the street so that the child would have to cross the street after making the purchase independently (while she watched!) This does a couple things - gives the child more confidence in his ability and lets the parent see the child making decisions that they can discuss and refine.
Another technique from the book that I really like is an expansion on the previous example - when out together on a shopping trip, the parent can give the child small tasks to perform, such as finding out what time it is from someone. The child chooses a stranger, finds out the time and tells the parent. Then the parent can discuss with the child why he chose that particular person, what made them feel comfortable asking them, why they didn't choose someone else, etc. (This expands on the idea that teaching our children to fear strangers is off-base - instead we need to help our children CHOOSE who to ask for help - for someday they may really need assistance, and better that the CHILD chooses rather than a predator choosing the child as a potential victim!) (Also, to choose a WOMAN to ask for help.)
DeBecker lists "The Test of Twelve" as a guideline or starting point. Children are NOT initially equipped to take responsiblity for their own safety. But there does come a day when the child can start to take a more active role. It is a gradual process and only the parent can truly know when and what they are ready to learn. I list the "Test of Twelve" here as a starting point.
The Test of Twelve
Do your children know...
1. How to honor their feelings--if someone makes them uncomfortable, that's an important signal;
2. You (the parents) are strong enough to hear about any experience they've had, no matter how unpleasant;
3. It's okay to rebuff and defy adults;
4. It's okay to be assertive;
5. How to ask for assistance or help;
6. How to choose who to ask;
7. How to describe their peril;
8. It's okay to strike, even to injure, someone if they believe they are in danger, and that you'll support any action they take as a result of feeling uncomfortable or afraid;
9. It's okay to make noise, scream, to yell, to run;
10. If someone ever tries to force them to go somewhere, what they should scream should include, "This is not my father" (because onlookers seeing a child scream or even struggle are likely to assume the adult is a parent);
11. If someone says "Don't yell," the thing to do is yell (and the corollary: If someone says "Don't tell," the thing to do is tell);
12. To fully resist ever going anywhere out of public view with someone they don't know, and particularly to resist going anywhere with someone who tries to persuade them.
Many of these can be worked into a children's karate class. I do not teach my children's classes as "self-defense" but integrate concepts like these when and where appropriate. Just as we don't teach a child that a specific technique is designed to kill, the concepts of karate STILL involve fighting, and part of on instructor's responsiblity, in my opinion is to say WHEN. I don't make it the emphasis of the class, (karate should be FUN at this age!) but I do interject concepts from the "test of twelve" to kids and parents whenever I get a chance.
Long answer to your post John-san! You will enjoy the book - please feel free to bring up any and all comments you have here.
Thanks for the thought-provoking question!
Peace,
Lori
-
JOHN THURSTON
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
- Contact:
When Comes Childhoods End?
J.D.;
It is clear that both you and Lori put a great deal of thought into these answers and I have printed them out for my wife to read as well.
I save quite a lot of material in my notebooks.
I have to digest the thoughts and get back in a bit.
That State Forest thing and my friend's girlfried disappearing were SCARY rememberances when you look at a young daughter.
I am normally somewhat critical of the media, but that particular 48 hours show managed to do a good job.
J.
------------------
[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited 06-29-99).]
It is clear that both you and Lori put a great deal of thought into these answers and I have printed them out for my wife to read as well.
I save quite a lot of material in my notebooks.
I have to digest the thoughts and get back in a bit.
That State Forest thing and my friend's girlfried disappearing were SCARY rememberances when you look at a young daughter.
I am normally somewhat critical of the media, but that particular 48 hours show managed to do a good job.
J.
------------------
[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited 06-29-99).]
When Comes Childhoods End?
John-san,
Ha! I have a couple of those notebooks myself...
The girlfriend's disappearance is certainly something that strikes close to home and has modified your behaviour - would that more of us could modify our behaviour BEFORE such an incident occurs!
I am apalled at the laissez-faire attitude of so many parents I've come in contact with over the years regarding where their children are and with who. My daughter has often thought me overly strict because I won't let her go spend the night at "Suzie's" house - who is the best friend of the month and who has never been to my house, who I don't know the parents, and who has recently become one of the "group" at the school cafeteria! "But mom, she gets straight A's!" "So what?" I reply. Don't know the parents, you're not going." "How about if I call on the phone and you can talk to them?" Still no way. I've got to have an established relationship with these people before I even allow my daughter to go to the house - AND - I live in a very nice neighborhood (so what!) populated with professionals and home-makers - grandparents and children - still doesn't cut it. Consequently my daughter has had VERY few sleep-overs at friend's houses, but they are mostly welcome here. It blows my mind that a parent will allow their child to come over and spend the night - without ever having met me or knowing my name. I always insist on contacting the parents at least by phone before the friend comes over, to make sure that they know that I'm home and that the kids really DO have permission to stay over. But still it amazes me that I even have to do this.
Great chapter again in the same book - (I really should get a commission!) is "Protecting Ophelia" - dealing with the special plight of raising girls - more from DeBecker:
<blockquote>Teenagers, especially girls, are the most victimized segment of our population...In a survey of prison inmates who had committed violence against young people, three quarters of the vitims were girls. Why? For starters, they offer less resistance and they pose less risk than adult women. Next, teenage girls are perceived as sexual objects, prohibited perhaps, but sexual nonetheless. The issue is complicated by the fact that teenage girls are themselves exploring the dynamics of male attention and they want to be acepted by men. Some girls mix immortality and budding sexuality, seeing fearlesness as a form of sophistication. This coincides with enhanced vulnerablity and exposure because teenage girls are at the stage to be away from parental supervision, to take a first job, have a first date, experiment with durgs and alcohol.</blockquote>
At your daughter's tender age of eleven John-san, you are just beginning the journey! Just wait till you are taking a walk with her and pass a construction site in a year or two! Even though you are by her side, the remarks you will no doubt hear will drive your fears for her even deeper into your heart. (Just happened to me during a walk with my daughter last week!) More and more I'm noticing that my daughter is getting noticed, and as such have stepped up safety discussions - again - I try to tread the line of not giving TOO much disgusting detail - but a teenager presents a new problem with their budding feelings of immortality mixed with all those raging hormones. Sometimes a shocking detail is necessary to drive the point home.
My daughter has said to me (teasingly and almost complaining) that EVERYTHING always seems to have a safety discussion! I respond that I'd rather talk about how to prevent problems than repair damage from a serious situation - she actually agrees! She tells me that sometimes she does get sick of hearing about it - but admits that she feels better equipped to deal with some problems as a result of our discussions. In our more "adult" discussions I am happy to see her display a common sense attitude toward my "strictness" as she calls it - and has grudgingly admitted that my "stupid rules" have no doubt kept her out of a few scrapes... (for example the account of the best friend's brother up on rape charges that I wrote about a couple months back.)
It's so hard to be a parent these days - J.D. mentions the imprint of his father's ring on his backside - worked for him! And no doubt many others! But now just try it and you are likely to have every social organization you can name and some you haven't heard of all over your case, legally and otherwise! Then we add the number of single-parent homes - absent fathers - (not to be sexist but there is a PROVEN correlation between absent fathers and serious problems with children) over-worked and harried primary care-givers - be it a single mom OR dad - day care centers lying about licenses - violence on the news - enough! You know the challenges! You live them as well. But the upshot of this little tirade is that part of protecting our children is establishing rules and guidelines and sticking to them! No matter how busy we are or how much wheedling goes on. My daughter is a MASTER wheedler - yet she knows that there some issues with NO compromise - and visiting with friends is one of them - I have to know the parents, then when she does go, I must have telephone confirmation the parents are home, the address and phone number written on the board in the kitchen, and an EXACT time of return. She KNOWS that if she is not in the door at that time I had better hear from her BEFORE the deadline or I'm on the phone to the police. She's pushed it - (can't count how many last minute calls I get from her about 5 minutes before deadline) - but to date the rule has always been stuck to. Difficult on a teenager at times to deal with such restraints on their freedom, but as we have discussed, this same rule can be a lifesaver if/when she is in a situation where she is becoming uncomfortable because of peer pressure (drugs, sex, whatever) where she can blame her "meddlesome mom" as being likely to show up at any time and if she can't be gotten a hold of then for sure mom's calling the cops - I used this same technique myself as a teenage babysitter when the mother was out of town and the father came home unexpectedly and started putting the "moves" on me - my father showed up with guns blazing... BECAUSE he knew where I was and we had a time table set up. Too many parents trust their kids - and they should, but they should not trust the people they come in contact with!
Wow, you really found a subject that got the fingers flying on the keyboard! Enough of my ranting already. But thanks for bringing up what I consider to be a very important subject.
J.D.-san,
Interesting question! I always poll parents before a child starts taking karate - asking what they are looking for - self-confidence, discipline, and self-defense are the top three answers. I have not kept records of these oral responses but the registration form has a place to list "reason for taking karate classes" and there are quite a few listings of "self-defense" - not that we live in an area of high crime, but this issue is definitely on parents' minds. We've never presented the classes in a "self-defense" light. I've only been teaching children's classes for about the last nine years or so, and approximately 150-200 kids have been in the program at one time or another - and this view seems to be consistent. Again, I don't approach the classes as "self-defense" but the public equates karate with "self-defense" to some extent. Again, I don't teach the kids, "ok - shoken to the solar plexus and temple strike of doom and death" but we DO discuss targets - and dealing with little people we invariably come up with how to work this on someone bigger. We work on breaking holds and targets from a "shorter" point of view - and again, this is not the EMPHASIS of the class - but it can't be ignored entirely.
As an instructor, my approach to the children's classes involves FUN and FITNESS - but I can't discount a parent's interest in having their child aware of a technique that may help them get away from a predator. DeBecker's "test of twelve" even advocates telling kids that it is OK to strike or hit someone that is trying to hurt them or place them in danger. Given the age group of the kids I teach, this is modified accordingly. If asked, I always give an honest answer - and the emphasis, if any, is placed on AWARENESS and AVOIDACE before any ACTION is taken. But again, karate is action, and I'm not going to brush the subject under the rug completely. Too many adults do. Primarily, I think that there is a responsiblity on the part of the instructor to inform the kids of some personal safety issues, just as it is the instructor's responsiblity to tell the kids they can't go using a shoken on their buddie's arm at recess or on the back of little Janie's neck in math class. If you are going to teach a kid to punch and kick - better tell them when it's ok - you've got to teach them when NOT to as well.
It's a fine line! And no doubt some instructors lean heavier to one side or the other as far as even mentioning self-defense issues. I can easily see a successful marketing technique preying on parent's fears: "Bring your kids to karate class! We'll make them street smart and teach them how to get away from the bad guys!" Ever check a parent's magazine out? Look at the ads! Tons of "safety" equipment: shoelace address tags, fingerprint laminating kits, DNA sampling kits (cotton swabs and sandwich baggies usually!) Can you see the marketing potential? I'm not going down that road - but neither can I completely ignore one of the things parents are looking for when they enroll their kids.
Other opinions? To what extent do you teach self-defense or safety concepts to kids? Or to what extent do you think safety should be taught as part of a kid's karate class?
Peace,
Lori
Ha! I have a couple of those notebooks myself...
The girlfriend's disappearance is certainly something that strikes close to home and has modified your behaviour - would that more of us could modify our behaviour BEFORE such an incident occurs!
I am apalled at the laissez-faire attitude of so many parents I've come in contact with over the years regarding where their children are and with who. My daughter has often thought me overly strict because I won't let her go spend the night at "Suzie's" house - who is the best friend of the month and who has never been to my house, who I don't know the parents, and who has recently become one of the "group" at the school cafeteria! "But mom, she gets straight A's!" "So what?" I reply. Don't know the parents, you're not going." "How about if I call on the phone and you can talk to them?" Still no way. I've got to have an established relationship with these people before I even allow my daughter to go to the house - AND - I live in a very nice neighborhood (so what!) populated with professionals and home-makers - grandparents and children - still doesn't cut it. Consequently my daughter has had VERY few sleep-overs at friend's houses, but they are mostly welcome here. It blows my mind that a parent will allow their child to come over and spend the night - without ever having met me or knowing my name. I always insist on contacting the parents at least by phone before the friend comes over, to make sure that they know that I'm home and that the kids really DO have permission to stay over. But still it amazes me that I even have to do this.
Great chapter again in the same book - (I really should get a commission!) is "Protecting Ophelia" - dealing with the special plight of raising girls - more from DeBecker:
<blockquote>Teenagers, especially girls, are the most victimized segment of our population...In a survey of prison inmates who had committed violence against young people, three quarters of the vitims were girls. Why? For starters, they offer less resistance and they pose less risk than adult women. Next, teenage girls are perceived as sexual objects, prohibited perhaps, but sexual nonetheless. The issue is complicated by the fact that teenage girls are themselves exploring the dynamics of male attention and they want to be acepted by men. Some girls mix immortality and budding sexuality, seeing fearlesness as a form of sophistication. This coincides with enhanced vulnerablity and exposure because teenage girls are at the stage to be away from parental supervision, to take a first job, have a first date, experiment with durgs and alcohol.</blockquote>
At your daughter's tender age of eleven John-san, you are just beginning the journey! Just wait till you are taking a walk with her and pass a construction site in a year or two! Even though you are by her side, the remarks you will no doubt hear will drive your fears for her even deeper into your heart. (Just happened to me during a walk with my daughter last week!) More and more I'm noticing that my daughter is getting noticed, and as such have stepped up safety discussions - again - I try to tread the line of not giving TOO much disgusting detail - but a teenager presents a new problem with their budding feelings of immortality mixed with all those raging hormones. Sometimes a shocking detail is necessary to drive the point home.
My daughter has said to me (teasingly and almost complaining) that EVERYTHING always seems to have a safety discussion! I respond that I'd rather talk about how to prevent problems than repair damage from a serious situation - she actually agrees! She tells me that sometimes she does get sick of hearing about it - but admits that she feels better equipped to deal with some problems as a result of our discussions. In our more "adult" discussions I am happy to see her display a common sense attitude toward my "strictness" as she calls it - and has grudgingly admitted that my "stupid rules" have no doubt kept her out of a few scrapes... (for example the account of the best friend's brother up on rape charges that I wrote about a couple months back.)
It's so hard to be a parent these days - J.D. mentions the imprint of his father's ring on his backside - worked for him! And no doubt many others! But now just try it and you are likely to have every social organization you can name and some you haven't heard of all over your case, legally and otherwise! Then we add the number of single-parent homes - absent fathers - (not to be sexist but there is a PROVEN correlation between absent fathers and serious problems with children) over-worked and harried primary care-givers - be it a single mom OR dad - day care centers lying about licenses - violence on the news - enough! You know the challenges! You live them as well. But the upshot of this little tirade is that part of protecting our children is establishing rules and guidelines and sticking to them! No matter how busy we are or how much wheedling goes on. My daughter is a MASTER wheedler - yet she knows that there some issues with NO compromise - and visiting with friends is one of them - I have to know the parents, then when she does go, I must have telephone confirmation the parents are home, the address and phone number written on the board in the kitchen, and an EXACT time of return. She KNOWS that if she is not in the door at that time I had better hear from her BEFORE the deadline or I'm on the phone to the police. She's pushed it - (can't count how many last minute calls I get from her about 5 minutes before deadline) - but to date the rule has always been stuck to. Difficult on a teenager at times to deal with such restraints on their freedom, but as we have discussed, this same rule can be a lifesaver if/when she is in a situation where she is becoming uncomfortable because of peer pressure (drugs, sex, whatever) where she can blame her "meddlesome mom" as being likely to show up at any time and if she can't be gotten a hold of then for sure mom's calling the cops - I used this same technique myself as a teenage babysitter when the mother was out of town and the father came home unexpectedly and started putting the "moves" on me - my father showed up with guns blazing... BECAUSE he knew where I was and we had a time table set up. Too many parents trust their kids - and they should, but they should not trust the people they come in contact with!
Wow, you really found a subject that got the fingers flying on the keyboard! Enough of my ranting already. But thanks for bringing up what I consider to be a very important subject.
J.D.-san,
Interesting question! I always poll parents before a child starts taking karate - asking what they are looking for - self-confidence, discipline, and self-defense are the top three answers. I have not kept records of these oral responses but the registration form has a place to list "reason for taking karate classes" and there are quite a few listings of "self-defense" - not that we live in an area of high crime, but this issue is definitely on parents' minds. We've never presented the classes in a "self-defense" light. I've only been teaching children's classes for about the last nine years or so, and approximately 150-200 kids have been in the program at one time or another - and this view seems to be consistent. Again, I don't approach the classes as "self-defense" but the public equates karate with "self-defense" to some extent. Again, I don't teach the kids, "ok - shoken to the solar plexus and temple strike of doom and death" but we DO discuss targets - and dealing with little people we invariably come up with how to work this on someone bigger. We work on breaking holds and targets from a "shorter" point of view - and again, this is not the EMPHASIS of the class - but it can't be ignored entirely.
As an instructor, my approach to the children's classes involves FUN and FITNESS - but I can't discount a parent's interest in having their child aware of a technique that may help them get away from a predator. DeBecker's "test of twelve" even advocates telling kids that it is OK to strike or hit someone that is trying to hurt them or place them in danger. Given the age group of the kids I teach, this is modified accordingly. If asked, I always give an honest answer - and the emphasis, if any, is placed on AWARENESS and AVOIDACE before any ACTION is taken. But again, karate is action, and I'm not going to brush the subject under the rug completely. Too many adults do. Primarily, I think that there is a responsiblity on the part of the instructor to inform the kids of some personal safety issues, just as it is the instructor's responsiblity to tell the kids they can't go using a shoken on their buddie's arm at recess or on the back of little Janie's neck in math class. If you are going to teach a kid to punch and kick - better tell them when it's ok - you've got to teach them when NOT to as well.
It's a fine line! And no doubt some instructors lean heavier to one side or the other as far as even mentioning self-defense issues. I can easily see a successful marketing technique preying on parent's fears: "Bring your kids to karate class! We'll make them street smart and teach them how to get away from the bad guys!" Ever check a parent's magazine out? Look at the ads! Tons of "safety" equipment: shoelace address tags, fingerprint laminating kits, DNA sampling kits (cotton swabs and sandwich baggies usually!) Can you see the marketing potential? I'm not going down that road - but neither can I completely ignore one of the things parents are looking for when they enroll their kids.
Other opinions? To what extent do you teach self-defense or safety concepts to kids? Or to what extent do you think safety should be taught as part of a kid's karate class?
Peace,
Lori
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JOHN THURSTON
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When Comes Childhoods End?
Lori San:
Youself and Sensei Van and J. D., have made it clear that such things as "situational awareness", "listening to rhat little voice inside that says don't go there", "discretion is the better part of valor" "some foot speed" are as important to young girls as any "techniques of doom".
The book I just receieved "The Great Battles of Antiquity" usually ends with a tactical analysis, the one which actually fits the best here (out of their "rules") is always" pick your battles, don't let the other guy do it for you".
If this were possible for our children, I would feel safer.
J.
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[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited 06-29-99).]
Youself and Sensei Van and J. D., have made it clear that such things as "situational awareness", "listening to rhat little voice inside that says don't go there", "discretion is the better part of valor" "some foot speed" are as important to young girls as any "techniques of doom".
The book I just receieved "The Great Battles of Antiquity" usually ends with a tactical analysis, the one which actually fits the best here (out of their "rules") is always" pick your battles, don't let the other guy do it for you".
If this were possible for our children, I would feel safer.
J.
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[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited 06-29-99).]
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JOHN THURSTON
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
- Contact:
When Comes Childhoods End?
Lori san:
Any answer beyod thank you right now is all I can muster.
Thanks.
More later.
J
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[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited 06-29-99).]
Any answer beyod thank you right now is all I can muster.
Thanks.
More later.
J
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[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited 06-29-99).]
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RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
When Comes Childhoods End?
Hi guys. My daughter is 18 and my son is 16. And my safety lectures never end.
At dinner today I reminded my daughter that there were several attempted armed robberies in the lot of the theater she was heading off to. Stay alert! As my son was about to drive off to see a friend I reminded him of his 9pm curfew when driving.
Also, I make certain to read the 'crime report' out loud on occasion to let them know that it can happen to someone even in our 'nice' part of town. They are annoyed but put up with it, and are better for it.
Yes, we must be ever vigilant, as they (as I once did) think they are immortal.
Regards, Rich
At dinner today I reminded my daughter that there were several attempted armed robberies in the lot of the theater she was heading off to. Stay alert! As my son was about to drive off to see a friend I reminded him of his 9pm curfew when driving.
Also, I make certain to read the 'crime report' out loud on occasion to let them know that it can happen to someone even in our 'nice' part of town. They are annoyed but put up with it, and are better for it.
Yes, we must be ever vigilant, as they (as I once did) think they are immortal.
Regards, Rich
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JOHN THURSTON
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
- Contact:
When Comes Childhoods End?
Rich San;
Hello;
I have an article of note for you which I will post on my forum-you have probably seen it.
De Becker's two books came today, so, once more into the breach!!
Todays safety lesson included a viewing of a Tai Chi Gim (razor edged and not a practice weapon) and a firearm; so, I said, the difference?
I don't know.
One is never to be treated as unloaded, the other never actually ever is unloaded.
What to do if she sees a firearms at a friend's house?
I don't know.
Leave.
But dad you have guns?
Well, I have to lock them up don't you think there's a reason?
Oh.
Can't wait for the construction sites.
Some of the Ads by the outfit "Coalition Against handgun Violence" suggest NOT letting a child go to a home where there are firearms. Well, if some of my daughter's friends parents do not wish them to come here for that reason (a good one) all I can do is offer a right to inspect for safety.
It's a good reason to get to know the parents of children's friends???
J.
J.
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Hello;
I have an article of note for you which I will post on my forum-you have probably seen it.
De Becker's two books came today, so, once more into the breach!!
Todays safety lesson included a viewing of a Tai Chi Gim (razor edged and not a practice weapon) and a firearm; so, I said, the difference?
I don't know.
One is never to be treated as unloaded, the other never actually ever is unloaded.
What to do if she sees a firearms at a friend's house?
I don't know.
Leave.
But dad you have guns?
Well, I have to lock them up don't you think there's a reason?
Oh.
Can't wait for the construction sites.
Some of the Ads by the outfit "Coalition Against handgun Violence" suggest NOT letting a child go to a home where there are firearms. Well, if some of my daughter's friends parents do not wish them to come here for that reason (a good one) all I can do is offer a right to inspect for safety.
It's a good reason to get to know the parents of children's friends???
J.
J.
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