Lori-san
I know you are currently busy evading Floyd, but...
With your permission, I would like to start a new discussion on finding your kiai.
I have been working on Kanshiwa Kata now for about 3-4 weeks. Technically it isn't too bad (for a beginner), but my big problem is the kiai at the elbow strike. In fact, about a week ago while working on it in class, my sensei (sorry, I know you sometimes read the posts) walked by and asked, "Did someone just step on a mouse?" I don't know what the problem is, but I have no "roar" whatsoever. The other new students don't have a problem with it.(note they are all male.)
So the question is...Is this something that the majority of women face at some time or another...or am I alone in this? And if you guys had problems developing it, what helped you get over it?
And for the gentlemen who visit this site, your thoughts, and if you have ever had problems.
All thoughts and opinions welcomed.
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Shelly
Roar of Spirit
Moderator: Available
Roar of Spirit
Shelly:
Like many things we learn in karate, the kiai is elusive and difficult to develop. I am still working on mine. I have been taught that producing a true kiai emination is a sound that is not really manifested by our brain attempting to make a particular type sound that is articulated. Instead, it is the result of an explosive expulsion of the air in the lungs by constriction of the diaphram, the hara and pretty much most of the body.
This is where the benefit of doing this exercise is derived, other than the benefit of startling or distracting your opponent, which is not to be discounted to be sure.
But the main thrust seems to be the fusing of the mind, body and spirit into a synthesis that produces a greater level of strength, intention and power in the strike.
So, there is no real "sound" that you should try to replicate. Instead, work on the forcing of the air out as a dynamic exercise and don't pay too much heed to the sound you make at first. Otherwise, you will fall into the trap of wanting to "sound" advanced, and not working on the technique itself.
What you may be hearing from those who you feel have " got it" better than you, may not be a full or real kiai, but instead, more of a facsimile.
True, an effective and proper kiai sounds impressive, but it is only a biproduct of the exercise. Work on the exercise and not the sound.
Just my "kyu" cents worth!
JohnC
Like many things we learn in karate, the kiai is elusive and difficult to develop. I am still working on mine. I have been taught that producing a true kiai emination is a sound that is not really manifested by our brain attempting to make a particular type sound that is articulated. Instead, it is the result of an explosive expulsion of the air in the lungs by constriction of the diaphram, the hara and pretty much most of the body.
This is where the benefit of doing this exercise is derived, other than the benefit of startling or distracting your opponent, which is not to be discounted to be sure.
But the main thrust seems to be the fusing of the mind, body and spirit into a synthesis that produces a greater level of strength, intention and power in the strike.
So, there is no real "sound" that you should try to replicate. Instead, work on the forcing of the air out as a dynamic exercise and don't pay too much heed to the sound you make at first. Otherwise, you will fall into the trap of wanting to "sound" advanced, and not working on the technique itself.
What you may be hearing from those who you feel have " got it" better than you, may not be a full or real kiai, but instead, more of a facsimile.
True, an effective and proper kiai sounds impressive, but it is only a biproduct of the exercise. Work on the exercise and not the sound.
Just my "kyu" cents worth!
JohnC
Roar of Spirit
Shelly:
There are lots of kiais.If you want an excercise for kiai, here is one from Japan, samurai used it.
Step out from a natural stance to the left or right into a good, low shiko Dachi(level four horse stance) and stomp the foot you are stepping out with kind of hard into the floor as you exhale and shout from the abdomen.
Use a one syllable sound such as Ei!, Ya!, or Oh! Be careful when using multisyllabic kiai, they may mean something really bad in Japanese or Chinese.:-)Those three are fine, however.
The feet should wind up at a ninety degree angle to each other to facilitate correct centripetal pressure in the abdomen, which will make your 'shout of spirit' much louder.
Remember-sharp and short-don't exhale all the breath-opponent will see this and attack.
As a beginner I used this old excercise and it worked well for me.It will for you, too!:-)Also helps in developing the power in the abdomen and waist regions.
John
There are lots of kiais.If you want an excercise for kiai, here is one from Japan, samurai used it.
Step out from a natural stance to the left or right into a good, low shiko Dachi(level four horse stance) and stomp the foot you are stepping out with kind of hard into the floor as you exhale and shout from the abdomen.
Use a one syllable sound such as Ei!, Ya!, or Oh! Be careful when using multisyllabic kiai, they may mean something really bad in Japanese or Chinese.:-)Those three are fine, however.
The feet should wind up at a ninety degree angle to each other to facilitate correct centripetal pressure in the abdomen, which will make your 'shout of spirit' much louder.
Remember-sharp and short-don't exhale all the breath-opponent will see this and attack.
As a beginner I used this old excercise and it worked well for me.It will for you, too!:-)Also helps in developing the power in the abdomen and waist regions.
John
Roar of Spirit
I never got into "kiai", or developing it. But the "energy of harmony" is in the spirit. Develop the spirit, even the roar of one's silence cuts through and chills the heart of the opponent.
david
david
Roar of Spirit
Shelly,
lots of my students, male and female hae this problem and I remember from the distant past my own struggles.
Whether it is the kiai of a battle cry, a 'grunt' of effort, or a vibrational vocalization or to tighten a 'soft' part to receive a strike, it all starts with relaxing and letting loose. Just go for it, and repeat until you are no longer concerned about the sound or whether no one is listening. Self conciousness stifles the natural expression of any skill.
If it is a squeak, so be it but make it the loudest strongest sqeak you can offer. Even my own sensei still sqeaks like an adolescent sometimes but you can bet no one teases him! Loud is better than long and pitch is irrelavent.
Good luck,
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Ted T.
The Fighting Old Man
lots of my students, male and female hae this problem and I remember from the distant past my own struggles.
Whether it is the kiai of a battle cry, a 'grunt' of effort, or a vibrational vocalization or to tighten a 'soft' part to receive a strike, it all starts with relaxing and letting loose. Just go for it, and repeat until you are no longer concerned about the sound or whether no one is listening. Self conciousness stifles the natural expression of any skill.
If it is a squeak, so be it but make it the loudest strongest sqeak you can offer. Even my own sensei still sqeaks like an adolescent sometimes but you can bet no one teases him! Loud is better than long and pitch is irrelavent.
Good luck,
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Ted T.
The Fighting Old Man
Roar of Spirit
Shelly
This is a common problem when it comes to Kiai's. A Kiai is not just about making a loud noise. When you look at it that way nine out of ten times the sound is coming from your throat, which makes it squeaky and rather empty, sounds more like someone is screaming. When a person Kiais in a Kata it's a statement. The student is saying "this is my most powerful strike and I am at my most focused point." Immediately after the kiai if someone were to test the student they would find the stomach to be very focused. That's why the Kiai has to come from the gut or diaphragm. When you focus your stomach and push your belly out and you force that little bit of air out through your mouth, that's the same process as a kiai except with sound. By thinking about your focus, your kiai will become more solid, it may not become louder but who cares? I could stand there and scream at the top of my lungs, which would be really loud. But if someone where to hit me in the stomach I would fold like a house of cards.
So to sum up, concentrate on your focus and your kiai will follow.
This is a common problem when it comes to Kiai's. A Kiai is not just about making a loud noise. When you look at it that way nine out of ten times the sound is coming from your throat, which makes it squeaky and rather empty, sounds more like someone is screaming. When a person Kiais in a Kata it's a statement. The student is saying "this is my most powerful strike and I am at my most focused point." Immediately after the kiai if someone were to test the student they would find the stomach to be very focused. That's why the Kiai has to come from the gut or diaphragm. When you focus your stomach and push your belly out and you force that little bit of air out through your mouth, that's the same process as a kiai except with sound. By thinking about your focus, your kiai will become more solid, it may not become louder but who cares? I could stand there and scream at the top of my lungs, which would be really loud. But if someone where to hit me in the stomach I would fold like a house of cards.
So to sum up, concentrate on your focus and your kiai will follow.
Roar of Spirit
Shelly - at our dojo we don't "pratice kiai". Now I'm not advocating not doing it and of course you shouldn't go against the instruction in your dojo but what I am saying is if it ain't natural you can't force it. It seems that with karate the more you force the less it works. As you develop power and focus in your moves, it will come. In seisan kata I know there are points (forward elbow strike, knee strike, shoken) where it just happens. I am not sure if this is because I am feeling the strength of the movements or because of the length of time of working out or what. When I first started doing kanshiwa kata I was amazed at the power behind the movements (this is still my favourite kata - I love the front kick shoken at the end of it)- have you tried to visualize putting your elbow strike or final shoken through a brick wall. Think of the power you should incorporate to do that - mind over matter. Have you read any books on chi gong? They may help you figure out where the focus of your power lies and where your "kiai" comes from. Hang in there, it will come.
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Roar of Spirit
Shelly-San:
The drill I gave here works.I used it, and used to paralyze an entire Air Force Barracks full of people with my kiai.:-)
Use it five times a day and terrify your friends, family and loved ones.
What's life if you can't have a little fun once in a while?<g>
John P.S> You will achieve very quick results with this method if you remember to exhale with the stomach contraction.I got methods for everything in martial arts except hostage situatios(Van Sensei gave us a lot, there) and for what Evan just posted.A new use for sanchin unlike anything you've ever seen.:-)Everybody go look!
John
The drill I gave here works.I used it, and used to paralyze an entire Air Force Barracks full of people with my kiai.:-)
Use it five times a day and terrify your friends, family and loved ones.
What's life if you can't have a little fun once in a while?<g>
John P.S> You will achieve very quick results with this method if you remember to exhale with the stomach contraction.I got methods for everything in martial arts except hostage situatios(Van Sensei gave us a lot, there) and for what Evan just posted.A new use for sanchin unlike anything you've ever seen.:-)Everybody go look!
John
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Shelly King
Roar of Spirit
A whole-hearted thanks for the advice...I definately see a bunch of things to work on.
Mary
We don't practice kiai either. Just in Kanshiwa. Sensei Klossner, however, strongly beleives in the effectiveness of a well placed kiai as a strike against the opponent. And have seen several (everybody in class) practically curl into the fetal position at the sound of his.
John
Look forward to trying the exercise. Reading everyone's post on how it's the by-product of the spirit and intent of the strike makes alot of sense. Reminds me of finals week in school, when everyone use to scream down the garbage chute to relieve stress, man was that a creepy sound. Bag pipes playing on the knoll and wailing banchies coming from down the hall. You could almost visualize yourself in Scotland.
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Shelly
Mary
We don't practice kiai either. Just in Kanshiwa. Sensei Klossner, however, strongly beleives in the effectiveness of a well placed kiai as a strike against the opponent. And have seen several (everybody in class) practically curl into the fetal position at the sound of his.
John
Look forward to trying the exercise. Reading everyone's post on how it's the by-product of the spirit and intent of the strike makes alot of sense. Reminds me of finals week in school, when everyone use to scream down the garbage chute to relieve stress, man was that a creepy sound. Bag pipes playing on the knoll and wailing banchies coming from down the hall. You could almost visualize yourself in Scotland.
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Shelly
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Shelly King
Roar of Spirit
Closing the thread...Figured out what the problem is, and though it isn't fixable at this time, I shall continue working on it. Again thanks for all the advice.
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Shelly
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Shelly
