Helping your man/partner...

Sochin · Post by **Sochin** » Sat Dec 18, 1999 10:25 pm

Here is the rule I teach all untrained women and my boy's untrained girlfriends - if someone gets into his face, never, never grab his arm!

The reason I mention this is from another forum were it was asked by an untrained and curious wife whether she should hold his arm to help keep him from going down if hit. I've taught this rule for years but I've never heard a reason for someone grabbing your arm just when you need it the most before.

This ranks way up there with - don't pick fights for your ma trained escort to finish, which I know no-one on this forum needs reminding.

Now, the main reason for this post...have any of you ladies ever been taught how to fight as a team with/beside your partner? Have you practiced double teaming a single or multiple attackers in bunkai, in sparring or in scenarios? Has anyone heard of anyone teaching this approach to SD? I've done a bit but I believe there is much more to do...and two people fighting in the same situation together is not the same as fighting as a team.

Any suggestions?

------------------
Ted T.
The Fighting Old Man

Lori · Post by **Lori** » Sat Dec 18, 1999 10:35 pm

What a great topic Ted-san!

No I have never been taught any back-to-back techniques - though I can see where they could be very valuable - having been in one or two situations where that would have been very handy...

Teaching any and EVERY female (MA trained or not) not to grab her man/partner's arm during a confrontation sounds like an excellent idea - nothing worse than a simpering woman impeding your defense/attack! Though I'm not sure how this could become a conditioned response - under the stress of a confrontation, a frantic woman will respond unwittingly much the same as anyone under the influence of the chemical cocktail. But that does not mean that it shouldn't be discussed! Maybe it will leak into subconciousness and help when the going gets tough.

Better still to work on some of what you discuss - finding effective tactical two-person defenses that a couple can practice and flow into as naturally as possible if necessary. I hope that this thread will generate some ideas and even some drills that we can try to this effect.

Thanks for the great topic!

Peace,
Lori

Sochin · Post by **Sochin** » Sun Dec 19, 1999 6:30 pm

We practice the melee type of sparring drill where the room full of students are told 'everyone is your enemy' now fight! and we do two or three on one but just may start three or four on two...even tho they are not partners outsidethe dojo, it may give the student something to work on with the untrained partner at home.

When my relationship with my wife was new we had to face a crazy ex together but since sanity has been regained we quit being so paranoid, it was exhausting - that was when we tried to figure out a how to that was practical but we were never satisfied.

------------------
Ted T.
The Fighting Old Man

Dakkon · Post by **Dakkon** » Sun Dec 19, 1999 7:09 pm

Sochin,
Excellent topic!
I'm also on the side of "Don't hold the arm/s" It gives the attacker a brief window in which to strike with no worry of counterstrike.
Depending on the situation (IMHO) if you are wanting to prevent a fight step between the 2 parties back to your partner and gently push them back while trying to calm the other down. It may or may not work but at least you can see if anything is coming and prepare for it.Normaly they have no interest in you and will not strike. This has worked once or twice for me. Then again both situations involved alcohol,big egos and one none combat party on either side

I think that's why it worked.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Chuck

RACastanet · Post by **RACastanet** » Mon Dec 20, 1999 12:52 am

Hi. Yes, my wife is an arm grabber in a stressful situation. A two handed one at that. I've discussed this with her and went a bit further. If a handgun is involved I have told her that I must be able to get to the outside of the shooters arm and did not want an inadvertant discharge to hit her. So, if the shooter is a righty, get on my left side and to the rear. For A lefty do the opposite. We have prearranged eye signals to communicate the planned 'activity' as well.

Rich

[This message has been edited by RACastanet (edited 12-19-99).]

Shelly King · Post by **Shelly King** » Mon Dec 20, 1999 4:42 pm

Excellent topic...

I'm not an arm grabber, however my husband is a "step in front of" kind of guy. In a confrontational situation, I personally like to step away from the other person, especially if it's two on one. I want to be far enough away from my husband that the guy has to turn his head to see one or the other...ie, can't look directly at us at the same time. Also like to get position so that we aren't looking in the same dirction, that way we can see anyone else approaching all the way around. My husband likes to do the macho thing and step between me and the thug, so that he's "protecting" me. The last thing I want is to be stuck starring at his back with no idea what's going on and know that if he takes a step back or gets pushed, we are both going down. Anyway, that's what I like to do.

------------------
Shelly

Sochin · Post by **Sochin** » Mon Dec 20, 1999 6:37 pm

Cops work in pairs - do they fight as a team or as two guys fighting together...any LEO's here?

Hi Shelly, I agree, spread apart to engage one for the reasons you mention and back to back to engage a group but how do you play it to keep from getting separated by the group?

------------------
Ted T.
The Fighting Old Man

Shelly King · Post by **Shelly King** » Wed Dec 22, 1999 5:03 am

Ted-san

You've got me...the two of us against a group is not something we've worked out yet. All suggestions welcomed.

------------------
Shelly

Cecil · Post by **Cecil** » Thu Dec 23, 1999 4:04 pm

Well,

I cannot imagine my wife fighting at all. She'd be in total shock. So, I'd have to do all the fighting myself.

Now, if you are in that type of couple, which most people probably are, the advice I was given was to not fight if you are with anyone, if you can help it that is. That is where the avoidance/awareness things matter big time. If push comes to shove, do your best to end it. A friend of mine told me that he ran into a situation like that with his ex-wife. She got hurt a little, he said, he was fine, but he said he "took care" of the two attackers. He had that 100 yard stare and angry look in his eye when he told me about it, looking off into the distance, so I really did not want to know what "took care" of meant.

I did tell her that she should try to run off if possible, and either call for help, or, my preference, get in the car and run over top of the people who are attacking me (assuming we are going into a parking lot).

Cecil

------------------
Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Thu Dec 23, 1999 10:18 pm

It seems to me that whatever a couple decides to do in relation to violence, the key element for success is to plan ahead both in terms of talking and playing out scenarios. The two of you (or more if there are kids) must agree on a course of action beforehand.

The last thing I want to be doing in the face of an imminent physical confrontation is arguing with a girlfriend (or any friend, for that matter). Knowing what to expect from your partner is key - maybe the reason she's holding your arm is you (no-one in particular, folks) are a hothead, and this is her effort to de-escalate the situation. Nevertheless, the 'arm-grabbing' clearly puts one at a tremendous tactical disadvantage.

I think 'Animal' MacYoung talks about people 'knowing their roles' as part of the team. Specifically, he writes about how his partner (girlfriend? wife?) has a role to play. Waiting for a conflict to erupt, and then saying something like "run, honey" is probably not going to work too well. Which of us in the face of potentially serious injury to a loved one could be counted on to 'run away' regardless of the fact that we may be completely inefficacious at aiding in the fight?

The arm holding story reminds me of another (I hope related): Not too many years ago, my father was in his convertable with the top down. Somehow another driver on the road became aggrivated, and at the next light, got out of his car and began to approach. My dad unbuckled his seatbelt and prepared to get out of the car. His female passenger at the time (I believe it was my aunt) said things like "no, don't" and began the arm grabbing. My father was able to defuse the situation with the other driver somehow, and afterward talked with my aunt about it. She stated that she was trying to act to settle things down. He pointed out that he was not getting unbuckled and rising because he wanted to show he wanted a fight, but rather because he didn't feel like sitting strapped in his seat while this guy approached and pummled him through the non-existent roof!

The point of this, I suppose is that in addition to discussing and agreeing upon options and tactics in advance, both individuals have to trust one another's intentions. In this case, it may have been purely assumptions on my aunt's part based in ignorance (i.e. it didn't occur to her that there could be an alternate reason for unbuckling and rising), or it could have been my father's sometime tendency at an earlier point in his life to rise to similar bait...

One more story to illustrate the trust issue... A few years back, a bunch of friends and I were in a bar in downtown Boston. I somehow ended up holding everyone's jackets in the group. I noticed off to the side that a fight between two patrons was imminent, and wanted my hands free to at the least position myself between the fight and my (mostly female, and all untrained, friends) until we could get out of the area. I turned to the closest one of my friends and said "here, hold these, quick." She got an annoyed look, and said "I'm not holding the jackets..." as I was shoving them at her and moving into position. The bouncers arrived at that moment as the scene erupted. My friends and I got clear in time, and it was actually somewhat amusing in the aftermath to see my friends face when I explained to her how close she came to being in the middle of a potential brawl...

Trust, communication and planning (beforehand) are key.

greg

Sochin · Post by **Sochin** » Sat Dec 25, 1999 8:35 pm

"Trust, communication and planning (beforehand) are key."...AMEN

------------------
Ted T.
The Fighting Old Man