Ladies:
Uechi is a style that is half hard and half soft. I hear ya, tell me something I don't know. What I am talking about is the hard side. Anyway, do you guys tend to get comments of "You fight good for a woman." or "You hit hard for a woman." Comments not neccessarily made to be sexist or with the intent to be hurtful, but actually made as a compliment. Though I try to take these comments in the spirit in which they are intended, I find it somewhat irritating. How do you guys handle it? I'm not looking for the usual generic answers of "I just try to be my best". I always strive for perfection in everything I do and I am very careful not to compare myself to others but personally, I don't want to be a good fighter for a woman. I want to be a good fighter for a Uechi practioner. For instance, I know who the best Uechi male fighters are, I think we all do. Who are the female? Personally, I don't have a clue.
And for the guys who visit this forum...what do you think? Am I off-base or do you, if even sub-consciously, tend to add that "____for a woman." and why?
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Shelly
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
Moderator: Available
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
Shelly, I got my first comment "you do a good kata...for a woman" when I was a white belt... I steamed at the time until I realized that it showed the limitations of the person who said it to me....
I think the next time I hear "... for a woman", I'm going to turn the tables and say it right back with "...for a man" and see what happens
.
Hey, JD - nice response...for a man!!! Ha ha ha
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I think the next time I hear "... for a woman", I'm going to turn the tables and say it right back with "...for a man" and see what happens
.Hey, JD - nice response...for a man!!! Ha ha ha
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Shelly King
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
JD-san
I can not believe I left myself wide open for that. I must be slipping in my old age or it could be the fact I took one too many hits last night in class.
Mary-san
as always, I can count on you.
All kidding aside, I would be interested in how you (meaning all) feel. Yes, JD, even you assuming the editor will allow it. Though if Bill-san replies we may have to put a maximum allowable word useage limit on him.
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Shelly
I can not believe I left myself wide open for that. I must be slipping in my old age or it could be the fact I took one too many hits last night in class.
Mary-san
as always, I can count on you.
All kidding aside, I would be interested in how you (meaning all) feel. Yes, JD, even you assuming the editor will allow it. Though if Bill-san replies we may have to put a maximum allowable word useage limit on him.
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Shelly
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Kevin Mackie
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
Sensei Bob Bethany has a female student who attends Van's torture chamber. I suspect that anyone who said " fill in here, for a woman" to her would be eating through a straw or singing in a boy's choir for some time.
If someone has done a good job, say it without the comparison.
A real man would never stoop so low.
Kevin
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<A HREF="mailto:kmackie@symmons.com">kmackie@symmons.com</A>
[This message has been edited by Kevin Mackie (edited January 06, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Kevin Mackie (edited January 06, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Kevin Mackie (edited January 06, 2000).]
If someone has done a good job, say it without the comparison.
A real man would never stoop so low.
Kevin
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<A HREF="mailto:kmackie@symmons.com">kmackie@symmons.com</A>
[This message has been edited by Kevin Mackie (edited January 06, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Kevin Mackie (edited January 06, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Kevin Mackie (edited January 06, 2000).]
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Kevin Mackie
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
"On the other hand, how many have been surprised by the dedication of some bespecled, runny-nosed, pasty-faced boy?"
More shameless self promotion, JD?
Kevin
More shameless self promotion, JD?
Kevin
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Shelly King
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
Kevin
Your listed email in the first post is not working...letting you know.
JD-san
In the original post I stated I did not concider these statements to be sexist in a deliberate manner. However, I am not what you would call waif-like or even thin. I'm a fairly tall and meaty person...for a woman...and rather obviously a tomboy. Though Mary-san does have evidence I can be a girly-girl, it is only a once a year event. I wonder how many people feel that the standards are lowered and the levels of training/conditioning reduced to accomodate females. Just wondering. People have said they don't test women as hard as they do men...is it because of their body type or because of their sex? If we are not naturally as strong as men shouldn't our training be increased that much more so that we become equal or should the testing be made that much easier?
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Shelly
Your listed email in the first post is not working...letting you know.
JD-san
In the original post I stated I did not concider these statements to be sexist in a deliberate manner. However, I am not what you would call waif-like or even thin. I'm a fairly tall and meaty person...for a woman...and rather obviously a tomboy. Though Mary-san does have evidence I can be a girly-girl, it is only a once a year event.
I wonder how many people feel that the standards are lowered and the levels of training/conditioning reduced to accomodate females. Just wondering. People have said they don't test women as hard as they do men...is it because of their body type or because of their sex? If we are not naturally as strong as men shouldn't our training be increased that much more so that we become equal or should the testing be made that much easier? ------------------
Shelly
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lori macleod-doyle
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: lr.sackville n.s. canada
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
We can always depend on Shelly to stir things up!
I too have been told "you do good Kata for a girl". It seems I here these kind of things a lot. I have also been told that I ride a motorcycle good, for a girl and that I snowboard good, for a girl. It used to annoy me to no end. Now I,like my buddy Mary, turn it around and throw it back at them. Yea, thanks, you do too ... for a guy. This seems to make most people see how foolish a remark it is. Those that it doesn't, well that's their problem not mine.
I am always happy to see people do well at whatever they enjoy doing weather they are female or male ,young or old,fat or skinny. If a person excells it is because of what they have inside themselves, not their gender or size and that is what should be complimented and respected!
As for the standards being lowered for female karate ka, you'll see this summer the standards in our do-jo.All I'll say is do some good conditioning before you get here. We are waiting!
By the way Shelly, don't forget,I also have the photos of you dressed up as a girly girl.This could be good blackmail material!!
Lori M-D
I too have been told "you do good Kata for a girl". It seems I here these kind of things a lot. I have also been told that I ride a motorcycle good, for a girl and that I snowboard good, for a girl. It used to annoy me to no end. Now I,like my buddy Mary, turn it around and throw it back at them. Yea, thanks, you do too ... for a guy. This seems to make most people see how foolish a remark it is. Those that it doesn't, well that's their problem not mine.
I am always happy to see people do well at whatever they enjoy doing weather they are female or male ,young or old,fat or skinny. If a person excells it is because of what they have inside themselves, not their gender or size and that is what should be complimented and respected!
As for the standards being lowered for female karate ka, you'll see this summer the standards in our do-jo.All I'll say is do some good conditioning before you get here. We are waiting!
By the way Shelly, don't forget,I also have the photos of you dressed up as a girly girl.This could be good blackmail material!!
Lori M-D
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gmattson
- Site Admin
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- Location: Lake Mary, Florida
- Contact:
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
A youngster said to me yesterday:
"You do real good kata for an old man"!
Guess it's all relative!
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GEM
"You do real good kata for an old man"!
Guess it's all relative!
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GEM
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
I know that sexism does rear its head in the dojo as elsewhere. I suspect though that some of it is a confusion of physical attributes with gender. Women tend to be physically smaller than man (although most are bigger than me. 
) The comments about strength are sometimes related to size and confused with gender. Personally, I get comments about me being able to "hit hard" for a "small guy." All I care about is that I got it in and it was felt. (Shrug)
Uechi ryu is largely a striking art. So folks are looking for strength and power. Again, size has a function in that, and gender plays a role in average size. In aikido where atemi has been deemphasized and techniques are related to balance and leverage, I rarely hear "sexist" comments because brute power is not considered necessary or even desirable...
I think Lori M-D hit it right. We should view each person individually (and ourselves for that matter) and see if the person is trying/giving her/his best in training. Doing this, some of the inadvertent sexist comments may be avoided. For example, my workout group includes two women. The smallest one at 5' and 120 lbs, in my estimation, hits as hard pound for pound as anyone I know. Is her hitting as hard as a 5'10", 180 lb male? Probably not, but that is more a function of discrepancy in mass than in technique. The other woman hits pretty hard as well, though not as hard pound for pound. Her distinguishing attributes include a strong will and a killer instinct. Give her a weapon ("an equalizer), or do weapons sparring with her, one finds an opponent as tough as they come.
I guess the bottom line is to just do the best as one can. Nothing else matters despite the occaisonal distractions and annoyances.
For what it's worth...
david
[This message has been edited by david (edited January 06, 2000).]
) The comments about strength are sometimes related to size and confused with gender. Personally, I get comments about me being able to "hit hard" for a "small guy." All I care about is that I got it in and it was felt. (Shrug) Uechi ryu is largely a striking art. So folks are looking for strength and power. Again, size has a function in that, and gender plays a role in average size. In aikido where atemi has been deemphasized and techniques are related to balance and leverage, I rarely hear "sexist" comments because brute power is not considered necessary or even desirable...
I think Lori M-D hit it right. We should view each person individually (and ourselves for that matter) and see if the person is trying/giving her/his best in training. Doing this, some of the inadvertent sexist comments may be avoided. For example, my workout group includes two women. The smallest one at 5' and 120 lbs, in my estimation, hits as hard pound for pound as anyone I know. Is her hitting as hard as a 5'10", 180 lb male? Probably not, but that is more a function of discrepancy in mass than in technique. The other woman hits pretty hard as well, though not as hard pound for pound. Her distinguishing attributes include a strong will and a killer instinct. Give her a weapon ("an equalizer), or do weapons sparring with her, one finds an opponent as tough as they come.
I guess the bottom line is to just do the best as one can. Nothing else matters despite the occaisonal distractions and annoyances.
For what it's worth...
david
[This message has been edited by david (edited January 06, 2000).]
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Raffi Derderian
- Posts: 635
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Johnston, RI
- Contact:
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
Hmm, "do kata well for a woman"???? Well in last years Uechi tounament, I took second in kata. Margret Choji (sp?) took first. So I don't want to know what someone who thinks that way would say about me.
Seriously, I have always thought women in general do kata with more grace and form than many guys. Men do tend to do it with more power, but that is not the only criteria to judge it by.
I have fought some pretty tough women. It's hard to make the "good ______ for a woman" comment with competitors like Kathy Long, Christine Bannon Rodrigues, Cynthia Rothrock, etc being in the picture.
Raffi
Seriously, I have always thought women in general do kata with more grace and form than many guys. Men do tend to do it with more power, but that is not the only criteria to judge it by.
I have fought some pretty tough women. It's hard to make the "good ______ for a woman" comment with competitors like Kathy Long, Christine Bannon Rodrigues, Cynthia Rothrock, etc being in the picture.
Raffi
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
Raffi,
It doesn't say anything about you. It says a lot about Margaret Chojin. She went in against a tough field which included you and many other talented folks and performed her kata with grace AND power AND intensity.
Like I said to her right afterwards, I hope someday my kata could look like hers!
For what it's worth, there is a Bakbakan Knife Tournament coming up in NJ at the end of the month. In the superlightweight division 135lbs and under, there is going to be a Filipina woman, Willeen (last name?), who will be the one to beat. I was at a bakbakan seminar and saw her move, and can
she move! Evidently she has already won some tournaments in that weight class, against male and female competitors. Willeen currently co-moderates the FMA forum in Bladeforums. Willeen's co-moderator is a woman name Donna Barnas. I have trained and spend some time with Donna on several occaisions. Donna has a tough, no nonsense killer instinct. She has a CCW and routinely carries a firearm and one or two large fixed blades on her. How she does the latter is an artform in and of itself...
Final thought: Anyone who underestimates some of these women are in for a big and unpleasant surprise...
david
It doesn't say anything about you. It says a lot about Margaret Chojin. She went in against a tough field which included you and many other talented folks and performed her kata with grace AND power AND intensity.
Like I said to her right afterwards, I hope someday my kata could look like hers!
For what it's worth, there is a Bakbakan Knife Tournament coming up in NJ at the end of the month. In the superlightweight division 135lbs and under, there is going to be a Filipina woman, Willeen (last name?), who will be the one to beat. I was at a bakbakan seminar and saw her move, and can
she move! Evidently she has already won some tournaments in that weight class, against male and female competitors. Willeen currently co-moderates the FMA forum in Bladeforums. Willeen's co-moderator is a woman name Donna Barnas. I have trained and spend some time with Donna on several occaisions. Donna has a tough, no nonsense killer instinct. She has a CCW and routinely carries a firearm and one or two large fixed blades on her. How she does the latter is an artform in and of itself...
Final thought: Anyone who underestimates some of these women are in for a big and unpleasant surprise...
david
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Shelly King
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
Lori M-D
Blackmail is such an ugly word...can't we call it solicited gift giving. What do you want? What will it take to buy your silence? Just remember if you guys break me this summer you had better be able to fix me. 176 more days! Please don't mention conditioning, I'm still sore from class. And I'm still waiting on New Year's picts.
Doctor X
As Mary-san would say...it was a saucy little red number. Sorry no leather or chains! Followed by an evening of "Wow, you clean up good...for an engineer." Perhaps it is all relative.
GEM
Must be the removal of the pony tail that would give the impression of age...perhaps it's time to let it grow back.
David
So how do you keep size and strength from being associated with gender?
Raffi
I've brought this up before, but in kata we compete co-ed, so to speak, but kumite is still separated by gender...wouldn't it be better to separate competitors by weight class?
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Shelly
Blackmail is such an ugly word...can't we call it solicited gift giving. What do you want? What will it take to buy your silence? Just remember if you guys break me this summer you had better be able to fix me. 176 more days! Please don't mention conditioning, I'm still sore from class. And I'm still waiting on New Year's picts.
Doctor X
As Mary-san would say...it was a saucy little red number. Sorry no leather or chains! Followed by an evening of "Wow, you clean up good...for an engineer." Perhaps it is all relative.
GEM
Must be the removal of the pony tail that would give the impression of age...perhaps it's time to let it grow back.
David
So how do you keep size and strength from being associated with gender?
Raffi
I've brought this up before, but in kata we compete co-ed, so to speak, but kumite is still separated by gender...wouldn't it be better to separate competitors by weight class?
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Shelly
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Kevin Mackie
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
Shelly, where do you put your pocket protector on the "little red number"?
Kevin
Kevin
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Raffi Derderian
- Posts: 635
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Johnston, RI
- Contact:
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
David,
I totally agree with what you say about Margrets kata. It was definitly worthy of 1st place, hands down. I hope I didn't imply otherwise.
When it comes to knife fighting, oh Lord! Watch out for the woman! They get bloody crazy with a blade. I say it all the time when I am teaching Kali seminars. I have seen women hold a blade for the first time, timidly, and by the end of class, it's an entirely different person. I always love seeing the change.
I do go to bladeforums.com sometimes and it really is a great site for Filipino and blade discussions. Everyone is cordial and respectful. Not always the case in the FMA. What's your background in FMA? Just curious.
Shelly, I don't know about men and woman fighting together. Men do usually have more muscle mass and a lot more ego. Not always, but a lot of the time. I see men fight women and when the woman gets in a great technique, watch it. The guy is all fired up now because he's not gonna let a woman get a technique in on him. I have seen injuries in dojo because the instructor has to let the female student know that he is stronger. In competition, I would be afraid of someone incurring injury. Even though our Uechi tournament is run exceptionally well, and all the competitors are talented, respectful people, it would only take one guy with a little too much testosterone to hurt someone. Just my opinion, I'm not trying to open up another thread or anything.
Raf
[This message has been edited by Raffi Derderian (edited January 07, 2000).]
I totally agree with what you say about Margrets kata. It was definitly worthy of 1st place, hands down. I hope I didn't imply otherwise.
When it comes to knife fighting, oh Lord! Watch out for the woman! They get bloody crazy with a blade. I say it all the time when I am teaching Kali seminars. I have seen women hold a blade for the first time, timidly, and by the end of class, it's an entirely different person. I always love seeing the change.
I do go to bladeforums.com sometimes and it really is a great site for Filipino and blade discussions. Everyone is cordial and respectful. Not always the case in the FMA. What's your background in FMA? Just curious.
Shelly, I don't know about men and woman fighting together. Men do usually have more muscle mass and a lot more ego. Not always, but a lot of the time. I see men fight women and when the woman gets in a great technique, watch it. The guy is all fired up now because he's not gonna let a woman get a technique in on him. I have seen injuries in dojo because the instructor has to let the female student know that he is stronger. In competition, I would be afraid of someone incurring injury. Even though our Uechi tournament is run exceptionally well, and all the competitors are talented, respectful people, it would only take one guy with a little too much testosterone to hurt someone. Just my opinion, I'm not trying to open up another thread or anything.
Raf
[This message has been edited by Raffi Derderian (edited January 07, 2000).]
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Shelly King
Fill in the blank "_______for a woman"
Kevin
Isn't that what garters are for?
Raffi
So right there is my point...we don't get to spare with the guys in tournaments because of ego. In class, I like to spare with the guys (and the women), looking at body type it's usually a good match up. The two other women in our dojo are conciderably smaller than I am. There are alot less women in Uechi then there are men, that immediately limits our chance to gain experience. And frankly, if I'm going to end up in a "real" fight is is going to be with a guy intent on doing harm. I'd rather get use to it in the dojo or in a tournament then on the street.
Isn't that what garters are for?
Raffi
So right there is my point...we don't get to spare with the guys in tournaments because of ego. In class, I like to spare with the guys (and the women), looking at body type it's usually a good match up. The two other women in our dojo are conciderably smaller than I am. There are alot less women in Uechi then there are men, that immediately limits our chance to gain experience. And frankly, if I'm going to end up in a "real" fight is is going to be with a guy intent on doing harm. I'd rather get use to it in the dojo or in a tournament then on the street.
