Two years ago someone posted this poem by Maya Angelou on the "Realities" forum - I certainly feel it bears re-posting here as a counterpart to the negative sides of gender differences in some current threads - let us also celebrate that which sets us apart:
Phenomenal Woman by Maya Angelou
<blockquote>
Pretty women wonder where my secret lies.
I'm not cute or built to suit a fashion model's size
But when I start to tell them,
They think I'm telling lies.
I say,
It's in the reach of my arms
The span of my hips,
The stride of my step,
The curl of my lips.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.
I walk into a room
Just as cool as you please,
And to a man,
The fellows stand or
Fall down on their knees.
Then they swarm around me,
A hive of honey bees.
I say,
It's the fire in my eyes,
And the flash of my teeth,
The swing in my waist,
And the joy in my feet.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.
Men themselves have wondered
What they see in me.
They try so much
But they can't touch
My inner mystery.
When I try to show them
They say they still can't see.
I say,
It's in the arch of my back,
The sun of my smile,
The ride of my breasts,
The grace of my style.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.
Now you understand
Just why my head's not bowed.
I don't shout or jump about
Or have to talk real loud.
When you see me passing
It ought to make you proud.
I say,
It's in the click of my heels,
The bend of my hair,
the palm of my hand,
The need of my care,
'Cause I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.
</blockquote>
Phenomenal Woman
Moderator: Available
Phenomenal Woman
Lori, thank you so much!!! 
Must admit I was starting to get a little riled up reading other threads...you have helped put things back in perspective for me...and another deep breath...thanks.
[This message has been edited by Mary S (edited June 27, 2000).]
Must admit I was starting to get a little riled up reading other threads...you have helped put things back in perspective for me...and another deep breath...thanks.
[This message has been edited by Mary S (edited June 27, 2000).]
Phenomenal Woman
Lori and Mary S
Please do not take the "wicked ways" thread personal.
Sensei Van did not start this thread with the intention of causing a gender war. There are many intelligent women who know very well how a man will react to their attire and they will "cover themselves" when they are leered at by the goons with their tongues hanging out.
Unfortunately we all know of the other kind of women who invite such attention knowing very well that they will not or care not to indulge in aything other than "showing off".
It may be harmless fun to the woman who does this but it can cause much grief and therefore anger in a male who has "been led on" this way.
God's most precious gift to man was woman!
Please do not take the "wicked ways" thread personal.
Sensei Van did not start this thread with the intention of causing a gender war. There are many intelligent women who know very well how a man will react to their attire and they will "cover themselves" when they are leered at by the goons with their tongues hanging out.
Unfortunately we all know of the other kind of women who invite such attention knowing very well that they will not or care not to indulge in aything other than "showing off".
It may be harmless fun to the woman who does this but it can cause much grief and therefore anger in a male who has "been led on" this way.
God's most precious gift to man was woman!
Phenomenal Woman
Len-san,
Glad to hear you have spoken with Van-sensei as extensively as I have in regards to and even prior to the posting of the "wicked-ways" thread. Knowing his intentions then you know of course that the reality of self-defense involved in that concept is as it applies to PERCEPTION vs. sexual or gender stereotyping. I for one do not take offense at the subject matter - but I do bristle a bit at the attitudes that spark the very need for a thread like that. This thread is not intended as a counterpoint - or an "us vs. them" - it is - as is this forum - an opportunity not only to discuss, and if we are lucky, enlighten ourselves about the gender differences as they manifest themselves in the martial arts and to martial artists. Some of these differences, as I mentioned in the first post, bring about negative consequences. Others, like what this poem exemplifies - allow us to celebrate the wonderful differences between men and women. Through education and an open-mind many of the readers of this forum are finding beneficial tidbits they can take into their own training and teaching. As with anything that strikes a chord - take what you like and leave the rest.
Peace,
Lori
Glad to hear you have spoken with Van-sensei as extensively as I have in regards to and even prior to the posting of the "wicked-ways" thread. Knowing his intentions then you know of course that the reality of self-defense involved in that concept is as it applies to PERCEPTION vs. sexual or gender stereotyping. I for one do not take offense at the subject matter - but I do bristle a bit at the attitudes that spark the very need for a thread like that. This thread is not intended as a counterpoint - or an "us vs. them" - it is - as is this forum - an opportunity not only to discuss, and if we are lucky, enlighten ourselves about the gender differences as they manifest themselves in the martial arts and to martial artists. Some of these differences, as I mentioned in the first post, bring about negative consequences. Others, like what this poem exemplifies - allow us to celebrate the wonderful differences between men and women. Through education and an open-mind many of the readers of this forum are finding beneficial tidbits they can take into their own training and teaching. As with anything that strikes a chord - take what you like and leave the rest.
Peace,
Lori
Phenomenal Woman
Lori, Mary,
Believe me when I say that the only reaction I had/have to some of the things in the "Wicked Ways" thread is an unqualified... GRRRRRRR...
aimed directly at these pieces of rat manure who assault or otherwise take advantage of women.
In the question I posted as a related thread, I didn't question my wife's actions/reactions, even though others have said as much as that I should.
What I have a problem with is the fact that too damn many guys can't be "friends" with a woman without wanting to "get in her pants"! They think that they're "god's gift" and that every woman has the hots for them... then they translate any friendliness (especially by the wife of their best buddy) as a confirmation and a come-on! Sheesh!
Then I realize that, in my case, this POS isn't my "best friend" at all... he's just a POS that my wife knows will eat his teeth if she tells me the way he's been acting behind my back. Without her telling me, I know she's also concerned because he's ex-military, brags about how he's never been put down in a fight, and has no clue about my MA background or my real world experiences... As well as the fact that I'm still in ~3 years of recouperation. I trust my wife, but there is a part of me that thinks she must like the new "attention" or else she would have put a stop to it. OTOH, she's told me that she doesn't think I should lose a really good friend over some "friendly flirting". IMHO (and we are having problems now over this disagreement), this is NOT "friendly flirting"... A man with honor just does NOT flirt with his best friend's wife/girlfriend! Ergo, he ain't no damn "friend" of mine!
I think that any man who thinks/says that (just about) every woman he comes in contact with has the hots for him, as this POS does, has a serious delusion of grandeur. One that needs to be taken down a few notches! I've been keeping my calm pretty damn well over this and have maintained it even further because of the advice from Professor and some of the other caring folks who replied in that thread, but...
I need to take a break and go do some zen-kata again...
Believe me when I say that the only reaction I had/have to some of the things in the "Wicked Ways" thread is an unqualified... GRRRRRRR...
aimed directly at these pieces of rat manure who assault or otherwise take advantage of women.In the question I posted as a related thread, I didn't question my wife's actions/reactions, even though others have said as much as that I should.
What I have a problem with is the fact that too damn many guys can't be "friends" with a woman without wanting to "get in her pants"! They think that they're "god's gift" and that every woman has the hots for them... then they translate any friendliness (especially by the wife of their best buddy) as a confirmation and a come-on! Sheesh!
Then I realize that, in my case, this POS isn't my "best friend" at all... he's just a POS that my wife knows will eat his teeth if she tells me the way he's been acting behind my back. Without her telling me, I know she's also concerned because he's ex-military, brags about how he's never been put down in a fight, and has no clue about my MA background or my real world experiences... As well as the fact that I'm still in ~3 years of recouperation. I trust my wife, but there is a part of me that thinks she must like the new "attention" or else she would have put a stop to it. OTOH, she's told me that she doesn't think I should lose a really good friend over some "friendly flirting". IMHO (and we are having problems now over this disagreement), this is NOT "friendly flirting"... A man with honor just does NOT flirt with his best friend's wife/girlfriend! Ergo, he ain't no damn "friend" of mine!
I think that any man who thinks/says that (just about) every woman he comes in contact with has the hots for him, as this POS does, has a serious delusion of grandeur. One that needs to be taken down a few notches!
I've been keeping my calm pretty damn well over this and have maintained it even further because of the advice from Professor and some of the other caring folks who replied in that thread, but...I need to take a break and go do some zen-kata again...
Phenomenal Woman
Okay, not to start a gender war, but the feelings outlined by Mary, and by Lori “but I do bristle a bit at the attitudes that spark the very need for a thread like that.” underscore what Animal Mac Young says: i.e.,
“Despite great advances in breaking gender roles in this culture, there remain fundamental issues between how men and women think. Several books are available on the subject that explains these differences. It is as wrong for men to assume they know how women think as it is for women to assume they know how men think. Knowing the extent of this difference between male and female psyche is important since much of it is unconsciously assumed. “
No offense to any woman or man reading this, but when you think about it, there are very few of us, male or female, enlightened enough to know the difference. It takes a very perceptive mind, in addition to a well-schooled mind, and a great deal of emotional intelligence.
Worth another shot:
<blockquote>Know what signals you are sending</blockquote>
{Mac Young}
Gilbert-sensei wrote:
<blockquote>the main thing is the thought is in you.</blockquote>
Lets take this “thought” concept further. What thoughts does anyone think are in the mind of panther’s “friend” in rationalizing the apparent liberties he is taking with panther’s wife? What thoughts do you think are in the “friend’s” mind as to the kind of man panther is? What thoughts are in panther’s mind as to his friend’s thoughts about him [panther] as a man? What thoughts are in panther wife’s mind as to what kind of men both her husband and the “friend” are manifesting themselves to be in this situation?
“I know she's also concerned because he's ex-military, brags about how he's never been put down in a fight”
What is the “friend” thinking in finding it necessary to brag like this to panther’s wife?
Such thoughts, if put down in the written word would fill volumes. Believe it or not such brain ruminations take the form of “toxic thoughts” which slowly permeate all aspects of an intimate relationship, including the “bedroom”! Goleman writes that thoughts of righteous indignation, such as a perceived emotional slap, continually fuel anger and hurt, something women have trouble understanding at times, because they have no clue as to how a man thinks, as Mac Young points out.
Goleman also writes that these “manufactured thoughts” trip the neural alarm system triggering an ongoing emotional highjacking on continual basis.
Goleman reflects that there are two emotional realities in a couple, his and hers.
The roots of these emotional differences are in part biological and in part the result of the separate emotional world boys and girls inhabit when growing up.
In spite of all the talk and the “huffy” reactions, it is the rare man or woman who is able to reconcile these subtle differences.
------------------
Van Canna
“Despite great advances in breaking gender roles in this culture, there remain fundamental issues between how men and women think. Several books are available on the subject that explains these differences. It is as wrong for men to assume they know how women think as it is for women to assume they know how men think. Knowing the extent of this difference between male and female psyche is important since much of it is unconsciously assumed. “
No offense to any woman or man reading this, but when you think about it, there are very few of us, male or female, enlightened enough to know the difference. It takes a very perceptive mind, in addition to a well-schooled mind, and a great deal of emotional intelligence.
Worth another shot:
<blockquote>Know what signals you are sending</blockquote>
{Mac Young}
Gilbert-sensei wrote:
<blockquote>the main thing is the thought is in you.</blockquote>
Lets take this “thought” concept further. What thoughts does anyone think are in the mind of panther’s “friend” in rationalizing the apparent liberties he is taking with panther’s wife? What thoughts do you think are in the “friend’s” mind as to the kind of man panther is? What thoughts are in panther’s mind as to his friend’s thoughts about him [panther] as a man? What thoughts are in panther wife’s mind as to what kind of men both her husband and the “friend” are manifesting themselves to be in this situation?
“I know she's also concerned because he's ex-military, brags about how he's never been put down in a fight”
What is the “friend” thinking in finding it necessary to brag like this to panther’s wife?
Such thoughts, if put down in the written word would fill volumes. Believe it or not such brain ruminations take the form of “toxic thoughts” which slowly permeate all aspects of an intimate relationship, including the “bedroom”! Goleman writes that thoughts of righteous indignation, such as a perceived emotional slap, continually fuel anger and hurt, something women have trouble understanding at times, because they have no clue as to how a man thinks, as Mac Young points out.
Goleman also writes that these “manufactured thoughts” trip the neural alarm system triggering an ongoing emotional highjacking on continual basis.
Goleman reflects that there are two emotional realities in a couple, his and hers.
The roots of these emotional differences are in part biological and in part the result of the separate emotional world boys and girls inhabit when growing up.
In spite of all the talk and the “huffy” reactions, it is the rare man or woman who is able to reconcile these subtle differences.
------------------
Van Canna
-
lori macleod-doyle
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: lr.sackville n.s. canada
Phenomenal Woman
Lori-San,
What a beautiful sentiment!
This is the type of poem that every young woman should read.What a wonderful statement of the differences that make us all special as women.
Thank-you
Lori M-D
What a beautiful sentiment!
This is the type of poem that every young woman should read.What a wonderful statement of the differences that make us all special as women.
Thank-you
Lori M-D
Phenomenal Woman
Lori,
Loved the poem!!!
Well, I was clueless about the wicked ways thread so I went to Van's forum and got informed.
I will say this. Women really have no idea how men think. I have conversations with my husband and I am amazed in the difference between the sexes.
I have been told that men literally think about sex almost every minute of every day. So I can imagine that it is very easy to misunderstand a women who dresses to revealing and engages on some innocent flirting.
I am a woman and I would never wear a short skirt with no underpants and if I saw a woman in a short skirt with no underpants I would think she was a little loose. I am a woman and I would even get the impression. So I can only imagine what impression a man would get.
In relation to the woman jogging in central park which by the way, was not a great idea. Here where I live a women took her trash to the dumps around midnight and was raped. Yes, she had every right to take out her trash at midnight but it was not very streetwise thing to do.
On a e-group awhile back I read an alarming story about a very well known former kickboxer. Two friends apparently went to a seminar of his and he started flirting a little and then they apparently flirted back. And then he suggested some improper things and they declined and then he really got nasty. The girls asked him some self-defense questions and his reply was that women deserve to get raped. The thing was that the girls thought of it as "innocent flirting" and he thought of it as "they want me" My reply to this story was when he started the casual flirting the girls should have not have talked trash back to him. AND since he was in an authority role being the seminar teacher, he should not have even approached these two young women in that manner. It would be like your doctor making a pass at you while you are in his care. You know what I mean? It's something called "ethics".
Kristy
Loved the poem!!!
Well, I was clueless about the wicked ways thread so I went to Van's forum and got informed.
I will say this. Women really have no idea how men think. I have conversations with my husband and I am amazed in the difference between the sexes.
I have been told that men literally think about sex almost every minute of every day. So I can imagine that it is very easy to misunderstand a women who dresses to revealing and engages on some innocent flirting.
I am a woman and I would never wear a short skirt with no underpants and if I saw a woman in a short skirt with no underpants I would think she was a little loose. I am a woman and I would even get the impression. So I can only imagine what impression a man would get.
In relation to the woman jogging in central park which by the way, was not a great idea. Here where I live a women took her trash to the dumps around midnight and was raped. Yes, she had every right to take out her trash at midnight but it was not very streetwise thing to do.
On a e-group awhile back I read an alarming story about a very well known former kickboxer. Two friends apparently went to a seminar of his and he started flirting a little and then they apparently flirted back. And then he suggested some improper things and they declined and then he really got nasty. The girls asked him some self-defense questions and his reply was that women deserve to get raped. The thing was that the girls thought of it as "innocent flirting" and he thought of it as "they want me" My reply to this story was when he started the casual flirting the girls should have not have talked trash back to him. AND since he was in an authority role being the seminar teacher, he should not have even approached these two young women in that manner. It would be like your doctor making a pass at you while you are in his care. You know what I mean? It's something called "ethics".
Kristy
Phenomenal Woman
I would also like to add something else along the lines of the wicked ways post.
Many years ago, I use to make gas reports for some gas stations. At one particular store, the owner called me baby. I immediately stuck out my hand to shake his hand and said, "I'm sorry. I thought I introduced myself. My name is Kristy _____. " LOL. He gave me much respect after that and called me Ms. Kristy from that day on.
Just a cool story I had
Kristy
Many years ago, I use to make gas reports for some gas stations. At one particular store, the owner called me baby. I immediately stuck out my hand to shake his hand and said, "I'm sorry. I thought I introduced myself. My name is Kristy _____. " LOL. He gave me much respect after that and called me Ms. Kristy from that day on.
Just a cool story I had
Kristy
-
Tony-San
Phenomenal Woman
I must be retarded because I spend more time worrying about stupid stuff that hasn't even happened then I do thinking about sex.
Despite all that however, chicks really dig me!
Tony
Despite all that however, chicks really dig me!
Tony
Phenomenal Woman
Very interesting comments....just want to note that I never took the posts on Van's Wicked Ways' thread personally...really like some of the posts I see here and Tony, it's your coffee honey....(ah the sound of a bubble bursting) :-)
Phenomenal Woman
After more than a decade of observing women and their behavior, I have become something of an expert on the subject, and I have reached the following significant conclusions:
Smell nice, Soft
Beyond that I am stumped. No amount of dating and mating has led me any closer to the reasons women live entire days based on their horoscopes, bake cookies and try to make their friends eat them so they will get fat, or pretend they never, ever go number two.
Christopher Connolley
Article in Maxim Magazine June 2000 Issue
Amen Brother
Smell nice, Soft
Beyond that I am stumped. No amount of dating and mating has led me any closer to the reasons women live entire days based on their horoscopes, bake cookies and try to make their friends eat them so they will get fat, or pretend they never, ever go number two.
Christopher Connolley
Article in Maxim Magazine June 2000 Issue
Amen Brother
Phenomenal Woman
Kristy...think the reason the owner gave you respect is because you showed him you already had it for yourself? That's what I'm thinking. 
