This is turning out to be a great thread - thank you for all the contributions so far.
On the gun play issue - I DID keep wondering where the real harm in a "super soaker" out by the pool was - but the problem for me was in drawing the line. OK, it's okay to horse around and soak people out in the yard with these kinds of games - I'm in the game as well as anyone - but my concern was the tendency for the smaller water guns to be secreted inside and a sneak attack while cooking dinner or something... you get the idea. "Getting" someone is the point - and that easily carries to other types of play and even unconscious responses that result in some of the tragedies Van writes of. Also, a neon pink "super soaker" is a big difference from many of the toy guns I seem to have seen this past year. Yes, some of the water guns are brightly colored, but others are more realistic looking - and then the other play pistols and capguns and cowboy rifles - some of those look pretty realistic, especially from a little bit of distance! All suggestions of beginning gun education are well-taken - and this is in fact what I did with my daughter (at age 4/5), I was only questioning at what age it should really begin. Of course it should depend on the individual child, some will mature sooner etc. - but a toddler is a little early for me.
Panther-san - osu! Very generous offer. I would appreciate contact names and numbers via email - as a school teacher I may be able to request one of the school programs you mention. Thank you!
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Peace,
Lori
email: <A HREF="mailto:lori_san@hotmail.com">lori_san@hotmail.com</A>
Forum Recommended/Reviewed Books
[This message has been edited by Lori (edited July 18, 2000).]
The Gender Gap on Gun Control Issues
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RACastanet
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The Gender Gap on Gun Control Issues
Panther: Where do you reside?
Fortunately, I live in the friendly Commonwealth of Virginia. If a firearm is properly secured in a closed box (locked is better) far from the driver and passengers (trunk), preferrably unloaded but not necessary, it is quite legal for anyone to transport it. With a permit for which you must be 21, it can be on your person and loaded. Also, as an open carry state, if you are over 21 you may place the handgun up front as long as it is in plain view. If you are over 18, you may have a long gun in the passenger area if it is not loaded. So, if we open the trunk of his car, I can leagally handle the firearm from that point.
One concession of a CCW in VA is that it is noted in the DMV files. If stopped, when your plate is checked, the LEO knows you might have a weapon. This goes for my wife and kids' cars as well since my name is on the registration. They know that and understand the need to be calm during a stop and keep their hands on the sterring wheel. My daughter was stopped and warned about her speed once but the subject never came up about a firearm. Also, last spring on the way home from a pistol tournament I had car trouble. A county sheriff stopped to offer assistance. I advised him that I was carrying and my car had a number of handguns and ammo in it. He said 'OK' and called a tow truck.
So, Virginia is a god place to be a firearm owner if you are responsible. Very bad place if you are a criminal. Last year, the city of Richmond alone had more firearm convictions than California and NJ combined! By the way, our governor, Jim Gilmore, is an honest to goodness poster boy for the NRA.
Come visit.
Rich
Fortunately, I live in the friendly Commonwealth of Virginia. If a firearm is properly secured in a closed box (locked is better) far from the driver and passengers (trunk), preferrably unloaded but not necessary, it is quite legal for anyone to transport it. With a permit for which you must be 21, it can be on your person and loaded. Also, as an open carry state, if you are over 21 you may place the handgun up front as long as it is in plain view. If you are over 18, you may have a long gun in the passenger area if it is not loaded. So, if we open the trunk of his car, I can leagally handle the firearm from that point.
One concession of a CCW in VA is that it is noted in the DMV files. If stopped, when your plate is checked, the LEO knows you might have a weapon. This goes for my wife and kids' cars as well since my name is on the registration. They know that and understand the need to be calm during a stop and keep their hands on the sterring wheel. My daughter was stopped and warned about her speed once but the subject never came up about a firearm. Also, last spring on the way home from a pistol tournament I had car trouble. A county sheriff stopped to offer assistance. I advised him that I was carrying and my car had a number of handguns and ammo in it. He said 'OK' and called a tow truck.
So, Virginia is a god place to be a firearm owner if you are responsible. Very bad place if you are a criminal. Last year, the city of Richmond alone had more firearm convictions than California and NJ combined! By the way, our governor, Jim Gilmore, is an honest to goodness poster boy for the NRA.
Come visit.
Rich
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RACastanet
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The Gender Gap on Gun Control Issues
Hello again Panther. The Virginia code is apparently different from the federal law....
In Virginia, "a person under 18 shall not possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm.... This prohibition does not apply to a minor... while transporting an unloaded firearm to and from such activities (hunting, range, or firearm educational class.)"
So, Virginia's breakpoint is 18, not 21. I side with the state rule on this. Hopefully the BATF and FBI are not monitoring my email or I'll find out tomorrow. What do you think?
Rich
In Virginia, "a person under 18 shall not possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm.... This prohibition does not apply to a minor... while transporting an unloaded firearm to and from such activities (hunting, range, or firearm educational class.)"
So, Virginia's breakpoint is 18, not 21. I side with the state rule on this. Hopefully the BATF and FBI are not monitoring my email or I'll find out tomorrow. What do you think?
Rich
The Gender Gap on Gun Control Issues
Sorry Rich,
Unfortunately, Appomatox settled the question of what statues override...
Only if the State law is stricter than the Federal law does the State law apply. In this case, for a handgun, the age throughout the U.S. of A. is 21... Loaded, unloaded, in a case, holster or the car trunk... if the person in question is under 21 and has unsupervised access to the handgun, that is a felony punishable with upto 20+ years in Club Fed... not just for the person under 21, but also for the person who intentionally provided said firearm. Thanks to Dianne Feinstein, Chuck Schumer, and the Brady Bunch...
What do I think?
Obviously, said handgun will be transferred directly from one legal user (said State Trooper) to another legal user (yourself) and will never be left in a known position of unsupervised access by someone under the age of 21...
That's what I think...
Because, as a lawful gun-owner, it would be my duty to drop the proverbial dime if I thought a "crime" were being commited...
since that is obviously not the case, I'll just say, "have fun shootin' and keep 'em in the X!"
Unfortunately, Appomatox settled the question of what statues override...
Only if the State law is stricter than the Federal law does the State law apply. In this case, for a handgun, the age throughout the U.S. of A. is 21... Loaded, unloaded, in a case, holster or the car trunk... if the person in question is under 21 and has unsupervised access to the handgun, that is a felony punishable with upto 20+ years in Club Fed... not just for the person under 21, but also for the person who intentionally provided said firearm. Thanks to Dianne Feinstein, Chuck Schumer, and the Brady Bunch...
What do I think?
Obviously, said handgun will be transferred directly from one legal user (said State Trooper) to another legal user (yourself) and will never be left in a known position of unsupervised access by someone under the age of 21...
That's what I think...
Because, as a lawful gun-owner, it would be my duty to drop the proverbial dime if I thought a "crime" were being commited...
since that is obviously not the case, I'll just say, "have fun shootin' and keep 'em in the X!"
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RACastanet
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The Gender Gap on Gun Control Issues
Thanks Panther. I'll just go over and get it so there will be no question of impropriety. Actually, if it is the old service revolver (pre Sig-Sauer) - S&W Model 66 - I own one myself and will bring it instead.
Regards, Rich
Regards, Rich
The Gender Gap on Gun Control Issues
Rich,
I live in the People's Republic of Massachusetts... where the current legislative facists are completing the job General Gage was charged with 225 years ago!
I'm from NC originally, but unfortunately too many anti-gunners have infiltrated there through RTP...
I've looked at moving back South and stopping in "God's country"... otherwise called Virginia, but financially that isn't feasible right now. We've also looked at NH, ME, VT, AZ, FL, SC, TX, and a few others. Partially, we think that if we make such a big move, we might as well really move and go either South or Southwest... Then we look at the beautiful states in the Northeast kingdom and think that there are some great places here as well... We looked at the mid-Northwest, but figure if we're going to stay with cold weather, we can stay in the upper Northeast.
I was assuming that the young gentleman in question was under 21 (federal requirement) and would have unsupervised access to the unlocked handgun on the trip to your house (violation of another federal requirement). If you're going to meet the trooper yourself, and take possession directly, then naturally it isn't a problem.
Just wanted everyone to be cognizant of the implications of the over 20,000 firearms laws on the books in this country...
Also, I know about "Operation Exile" and while the Richmond VA version is being implemented correctly, the proposed Federal version would only serve to give the BATF even more unfettered ability to kick in doors, stomp to death cats, and murder women who are holding a threatening loaded baby!
No Thanks...
[This message has been edited by Panther (edited July 18, 2000).]
I live in the People's Republic of Massachusetts... where the current legislative facists are completing the job General Gage was charged with 225 years ago!
I'm from NC originally, but unfortunately too many anti-gunners have infiltrated there through RTP...
I've looked at moving back South and stopping in "God's country"... otherwise called Virginia, but financially that isn't feasible right now. We've also looked at NH, ME, VT, AZ, FL, SC, TX, and a few others. Partially, we think that if we make such a big move, we might as well really move and go either South or Southwest... Then we look at the beautiful states in the Northeast kingdom and think that there are some great places here as well... We looked at the mid-Northwest, but figure if we're going to stay with cold weather, we can stay in the upper Northeast.
I was assuming that the young gentleman in question was under 21 (federal requirement) and would have unsupervised access to the unlocked handgun on the trip to your house (violation of another federal requirement). If you're going to meet the trooper yourself, and take possession directly, then naturally it isn't a problem.
Just wanted everyone to be cognizant of the implications of the over 20,000 firearms laws on the books in this country...
Also, I know about "Operation Exile" and while the Richmond VA version is being implemented correctly, the proposed Federal version would only serve to give the BATF even more unfettered ability to kick in doors, stomp to death cats, and murder women who are holding a threatening loaded baby!
No Thanks...
[This message has been edited by Panther (edited July 18, 2000).]
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RACastanet
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- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
The Gender Gap on Gun Control Issues
Ahhh.... A fine day was spent at the range. First, we had the safety lecture before leaving the car. We started with handguns at close range with an S&W 38 spl and worked from 5 yards to 15 yards.
I then introduced my daughter and her male friend to the world of Glock with my 9mm model 17. Instant converts. The S&W stayed in the box after trying the Glock. For variety I let them try the .45 Glock 21, but it proved to be a bit much for them to control (somewhat for me as well actually). None the less, it helped them appreciate the power of other types of ammo.
Last, we went to the rifle range and I brought out the M1 Garand and M1 carbine. My daughter passed on the Garand (not a bad idea) but did very well with the carbine. Maybe next time we'll bring a shotgun or two.
One interesting thing happened as I was zeroing the Garand at 50 yards. I set up a spotter scope, fired, and then looked thru the scope to see where it hit. Samantha asked 'what are you doing?' I told her I needed to spot the location of the hit to adjust the sights. She said, 'its a bulls eye!' Why do you need to look thru that scope? Holy cow.... at fifty yards she could see a .30" hole in the target. So, after that she just called the hits out. With that vision, she could be quite a marksman. (That is right, not a marksperson.)
On the way home, she said she had a great time. Also, and this is the ultimate, she apologized for having earlier voiced concerns about my interest in firearms as she now understood their safe use, and the enjoyment of using them. She wants to go back again.
Chalk one up for the good guys.
Rich
I then introduced my daughter and her male friend to the world of Glock with my 9mm model 17. Instant converts. The S&W stayed in the box after trying the Glock. For variety I let them try the .45 Glock 21, but it proved to be a bit much for them to control (somewhat for me as well actually). None the less, it helped them appreciate the power of other types of ammo.
Last, we went to the rifle range and I brought out the M1 Garand and M1 carbine. My daughter passed on the Garand (not a bad idea) but did very well with the carbine. Maybe next time we'll bring a shotgun or two.
One interesting thing happened as I was zeroing the Garand at 50 yards. I set up a spotter scope, fired, and then looked thru the scope to see where it hit. Samantha asked 'what are you doing?' I told her I needed to spot the location of the hit to adjust the sights. She said, 'its a bulls eye!' Why do you need to look thru that scope? Holy cow.... at fifty yards she could see a .30" hole in the target. So, after that she just called the hits out. With that vision, she could be quite a marksman. (That is right, not a marksperson.)
On the way home, she said she had a great time. Also, and this is the ultimate, she apologized for having earlier voiced concerns about my interest in firearms as she now understood their safe use, and the enjoyment of using them. She wants to go back again.
Chalk one up for the good guys.
Rich
The Gender Gap on Gun Control Issues
Way to go Rich-san!
Sounds like the makings of a great father-daughter hobby! That is just great... Wow! What a set of eyes...
One suggestion for your daughter's shooting enjoyment and rifle marksmanship. Try an AR-15 match-grade with the competition barrel and a scope... The wifey can fire 10 rounds @ 200 yards and then cover the resultant hole with a dime. Yep, a dime... With your daughter's sight and a little practice, I bet she could do that as well. perhaps even out to 300-600 yards. And the .223 round is excellent, the women I've shot with especially like it. Have fun...
Now, Good Doctor... It isn't my fault that the middle of most targets is marked by the same letter that you sign your name with! However, in deference to you, I will attempt to use the IPSC/IDPA terminology and urge folks to keep it in the "A" zone... it's just that most folks don't understand that. Hmmmm...
Oh, yes... I never get upset when someone collects autographed portraits of historical figures. Even if they were wah criminals!
ROTFLMAO!
[This message has been edited by Panther (edited July 20, 2000).]
Sounds like the makings of a great father-daughter hobby! That is just great... Wow! What a set of eyes...
One suggestion for your daughter's shooting enjoyment and rifle marksmanship. Try an AR-15 match-grade with the competition barrel and a scope... The wifey can fire 10 rounds @ 200 yards and then cover the resultant hole with a dime. Yep, a dime... With your daughter's sight and a little practice, I bet she could do that as well. perhaps even out to 300-600 yards. And the .223 round is excellent, the women I've shot with especially like it. Have fun...
Now, Good Doctor... It isn't my fault that the middle of most targets is marked by the same letter that you sign your name with!
However, in deference to you, I will attempt to use the IPSC/IDPA terminology and urge folks to keep it in the "A" zone... it's just that most folks don't understand that. Hmmmm... Oh, yes... I never get upset when someone collects autographed portraits of historical figures. Even if they were wah criminals!
ROTFLMAO!
[This message has been edited by Panther (edited July 20, 2000).]
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RACastanet
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The Gender Gap on Gun Control Issues
Good morning. Yes, we keep them in the 'a' zone. For handguns I use the 'transition targets' with a slightly smaller target area than IDPA. I do have a Bushmaster XR15 HB. I did not want to intimidate her with it hence the M1 carbine. Next time though.....
BTW, the bad guy in VA is Gen. Phil Sheridan and his destruction of the Shenendoah Valley 'breadbasket of the South'. Long memories up there.
Rich
BTW, the bad guy in VA is Gen. Phil Sheridan and his destruction of the Shenendoah Valley 'breadbasket of the South'. Long memories up there.
Rich
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Allen M.
The Gender Gap on Gun Control Issues
Panther,
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
And all these years I thought it technically wasn't a state, but one of two Commonwealths in the Union.
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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/pulse mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
???People's Supreme Democratic Republic of Massachusetts
And all these years I thought it technically wasn't a state, but one of two Commonwealths in the Union.
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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/pulse mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/
The Gender Gap on Gun Control Issues
This has gotten away from the original topic. I'm sure the owners of this forum/thread would prefer we not hijack their venue.
I guess we could just agree to disagree...
Oops, sorry...
Anyway, to reply...
Allen-san,
Technically it's a commonwealth, but in reality it's one of the lesser-known provinces of the People's Republic of China. Many of the legistraitors are slightly to the left of Chairman Mao. While the other "commonwealth", Virgina, is at least attempting to allow their citizens actual "freedom", Massacusetts only allows that hypocricy to go so far.
JD... Doctor,
I would never think of you in such a disparaging way! I have visited Beacon Hill on numerous occasions, both to visit freedom-loving Senators & Representatives and to testify before committees. I've also been there a few times to protest, but alas the majority of the legislators are really legistraitors who continue to insist that the MA and US Constitutions do not say exactly what any citizen with a reasonable education can read them to say! I have visited the Statue of Gen. Hooker on occasion... Um-humm...
Now, to bring things back around somewhat...
Why do you suppose it is that women are generally so hoplophobic? If it's a matter of being afraid "for the chiiiiildren", then I would think that women would want to own and carry the most effective means of defense available to them. The fact that so many women seem to have bought into the mass media's propaganda on the subject is very disturbing to me (and to my wife/sisters as well). I wonder what it is that makes many women like celebrities (and politicians) who are known liars and hypocrites... and believe the misguided, misinformed propaganda that those celebrities shovel forth with every day during their television propaganda hours, ummmm... I mean, talk shows.
Ladies, someone, please explain the seeming lose of critical thinking skills that allows some people to ignore the lies and weasel-words that are destroying our freedoms on an hourly basis!
[This message has been edited by Panther (edited July 21, 2000).]
I guess we could just agree to disagree...
Oops, sorry...
Anyway, to reply...
Allen-san,
Technically it's a commonwealth, but in reality it's one of the lesser-known provinces of the People's Republic of China. Many of the legistraitors are slightly to the left of Chairman Mao. While the other "commonwealth", Virgina, is at least attempting to allow their citizens actual "freedom", Massacusetts only allows that hypocricy to go so far.
JD... Doctor,
I would never think of you in such a disparaging way!
I have visited Beacon Hill on numerous occasions, both to visit freedom-loving Senators & Representatives and to testify before committees. I've also been there a few times to protest, but alas the majority of the legislators are really legistraitors who continue to insist that the MA and US Constitutions do not say exactly what any citizen with a reasonable education can read them to say! I have visited the Statue of Gen. Hooker on occasion... Um-humm... Now, to bring things back around somewhat...
Why do you suppose it is that women are generally so hoplophobic? If it's a matter of being afraid "for the chiiiiildren", then I would think that women would want to own and carry the most effective means of defense available to them. The fact that so many women seem to have bought into the mass media's propaganda on the subject is very disturbing to me (and to my wife/sisters as well). I wonder what it is that makes many women like celebrities (and politicians) who are known liars and hypocrites... and believe the misguided, misinformed propaganda that those celebrities shovel forth with every day during their television propaganda hours, ummmm... I mean, talk shows.
Ladies, someone, please explain the seeming lose of critical thinking skills that allows some people to ignore the lies and weasel-words that are destroying our freedoms on an hourly basis!
[This message has been edited by Panther (edited July 21, 2000).]
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Allen M.
The Gender Gap on Gun Control Issues
I wonder if the aftermath of either a major war, or decimation by disease, is the only thing that can bring man and woman together in the spirit of selflessness and rebuilding lives and families?
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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/pulse mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/
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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/pulse mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/
