JD-san:
Yes, I had a very similar fantasy during the conversation, but it included a large amount of crying and pleading on his part prior to the before mentioned kick finding it's target.
Mary-san:
It is a fascination and I can't explain it myself. It is really something you have to experience for yourself. Much like karate, firing a gun is different for different people. All I can do is recommend going to a firing range and trying it for yourself. Can you explain what you meant by "dirty" weapon when referring to a blade?
Lori-san
Glad to see you bac full force. I trust it's safe to assume your life is taking on a normal aspect once more? Agree whole-heartedly on the tear gas. It has been my experience of those who carry pepper spray, (I think everyone on my dorm floor my freshman year received a can from thier mother) don't know how to use it and would probably end up spraying themselves instead of the attacker.
The thing I keep seeing come out of these posts is this: if you're going to run, then run fast, if you're going to fight, then fight like your life depends on it...because it does.
Something has been bothering me and I just now figured out what it was...There has been several comments made that people didn't know if they could committ to a full force defense if it was just themselves being threatened but if their children were envolved they wouldn't think twice about taking the attacker out. So the question is...why don't you value your own lives and safety as highly as you do your childrens? I'm not talking about throwing yourself in front of a speeding car to save little Tommy, but why wouldn't you fight just as hard for yourself as you would for your kids.
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Shelly
[This message has been edited by Shelly King (edited 10-05-99).]
ARMED AND FEMALE
Moderator: Available
ARMED AND FEMALE
Mary,
>>To me the major problem with the blade is intimacy (gee I sound like Van-Sensei!!) What I mean by this is that you have to be right there in the middle of the action in order to use it - I personally view the knife as a “dirty” weapon<<
This may sound weird... But closed quarter combat, empty handed or with weapon, IS very intimate. There is no getting around it. If and when you have to defend yourself or others, there should be no thought of what's "dirty". It's a primal urge to survive. And like other primal urges, it is very personal and the experience stays with you for long, long time.
david
>>To me the major problem with the blade is intimacy (gee I sound like Van-Sensei!!) What I mean by this is that you have to be right there in the middle of the action in order to use it - I personally view the knife as a “dirty” weapon<<
This may sound weird... But closed quarter combat, empty handed or with weapon, IS very intimate. There is no getting around it. If and when you have to defend yourself or others, there should be no thought of what's "dirty". It's a primal urge to survive. And like other primal urges, it is very personal and the experience stays with you for long, long time.
david
ARMED AND FEMALE
Shelly, what David said just about sums up my comment on the knife...I guess I think of it as "dirty" because of the damage it can inflict at close quarters. It is a messy weapon (blood and stuff). I suppose the gun could be considered that way too but for me, the knife just seems to intimate closer contact than a gun and perhaps more mental commitment from the user (hard to pull a trigger, much harder to cut someone)
...and David, I don't think what you wrote was weird at all :-)
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...and David, I don't think what you wrote was weird at all :-)
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Raffi Derderian
- Posts: 635
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Johnston, RI
- Contact:
ARMED AND FEMALE
Hello Lori Sensei and all,
I have really enjoyed this particular thread. I'd like to throw in my two cents.
The question of guns versus knives is very debatable for sure. Each offers advantages and of course, disadvantages. However, there is an element that has not been discussed.
One thing I have always noticed in many dojos is how infrequently they practice weapons. They tell me that their dojo does "extensive weapons training", but they haven't touched the knives in quite some time. Now if someone can't make time to go to the changing room during class and get a plastic knife to work out with, I wonder how often someone will go to the shooting range. Just like empty hands training, if you want to become good enough with a weapon to use in combat, you better practice regularly and with realism.
I got a kick out of Shelly's post about the guy who couldn't believe she sparred men. My fiance is one of my black belts. She was doing full contact stick sparring in class and one of the guys was really eating her up. One of my students was standing next to me and asked what I was going to do about it. I said "Work on her footwork".
Raffi
I have really enjoyed this particular thread. I'd like to throw in my two cents.
The question of guns versus knives is very debatable for sure. Each offers advantages and of course, disadvantages. However, there is an element that has not been discussed.
One thing I have always noticed in many dojos is how infrequently they practice weapons. They tell me that their dojo does "extensive weapons training", but they haven't touched the knives in quite some time. Now if someone can't make time to go to the changing room during class and get a plastic knife to work out with, I wonder how often someone will go to the shooting range. Just like empty hands training, if you want to become good enough with a weapon to use in combat, you better practice regularly and with realism.
I got a kick out of Shelly's post about the guy who couldn't believe she sparred men. My fiance is one of my black belts. She was doing full contact stick sparring in class and one of the guys was really eating her up. One of my students was standing next to me and asked what I was going to do about it. I said "Work on her footwork".
Raffi
ARMED AND FEMALE
Hi All,
random thoughts from these fine posts...
the stories I have about the lack of stopping power of a knife all come from LEO's who have had a bloody wrestling match with a bad guy and only when it is over does he realize that all the blood is his, that the b-g had a small blade or scissors in his hand while he threw his punches etc. Others report the body numbing effects of the shock of a deep stab - but I don't think they speak from a personal experience. Perhaps this type of use of the knife would have stopping power.
Don't forget - you don't ask advice from a person with something to sell, it distorts their reply...and Paxton Qigley has something to sell, her attitude about s-d is probably 'flavored' by her salesmanship.
Personally I'm glad to live in a city where few ladies care about s-d and fewer even need too, outside of special lifestyle considerations. I don't try to 'scare' women into my dojo but the only lady who ever came to me specifically for knife work because she was being stalked by an abusive ex I only took because her counselor was also my student. I taught her elementary knife skills and she dissappeared to end up in the newspaper a year later for assault on some guy, no weapon involved. I carry a knife regularily and a cane and my wife carries all the time but we are 'practicing,' not being suspicious of our neighbors.
It may be that the lack of stopping power is more related to what is offered as knife training and how it is practiced than what the knife is capable of...
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Ted T.
The Fighting Old Man
random thoughts from these fine posts...
the stories I have about the lack of stopping power of a knife all come from LEO's who have had a bloody wrestling match with a bad guy and only when it is over does he realize that all the blood is his, that the b-g had a small blade or scissors in his hand while he threw his punches etc. Others report the body numbing effects of the shock of a deep stab - but I don't think they speak from a personal experience. Perhaps this type of use of the knife would have stopping power.
Don't forget - you don't ask advice from a person with something to sell, it distorts their reply...and Paxton Qigley has something to sell, her attitude about s-d is probably 'flavored' by her salesmanship.
Personally I'm glad to live in a city where few ladies care about s-d and fewer even need too, outside of special lifestyle considerations. I don't try to 'scare' women into my dojo but the only lady who ever came to me specifically for knife work because she was being stalked by an abusive ex I only took because her counselor was also my student. I taught her elementary knife skills and she dissappeared to end up in the newspaper a year later for assault on some guy, no weapon involved. I carry a knife regularily and a cane and my wife carries all the time but we are 'practicing,' not being suspicious of our neighbors.
It may be that the lack of stopping power is more related to what is offered as knife training and how it is practiced than what the knife is capable of...
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Ted T.
The Fighting Old Man
ARMED AND FEMALE
Ted/Fighting Old Man,
I don't believe there is a uniform response to being stabbed, shot or anything else. Depends on the receiver and the wielder of the weapon.
I got into knives several years ago because of two separate incidents near my work place. The first involved, one guy stopping three guys with a knife. All three ended up in the hospital. One almost died from a nick to the heart but survived because a top notch hospital happens to be in the immediate neighborhood.
The second incident involved two taking on seven, eight or more opponents. Of the two, one was wielding a knife. He was also a big guy. The net effect was 7 or 8 people stabbed and slashed. No fatalities, but the fight ended fairly quickly with the other side scattering.
I also have three friends who were on the receiving end of stab wounds. One received a stab in the back in a melee. He said it felt like a hard punch but he didn't realize he was stabbed until after the fight and saw the blood. Another fought someone with a knife and was stabbed through the calf, severing an artery. He continued to fight and prevailed but almost died from the lost of blood. Finally, another was stabbed in the stomach. He was fully aware of being stabbed. He disengaged quickly. As he said, "Ain't no sense in staying around and getting stabbed to death."
I believe to learn to defend against the knife, one needs to learn to use it to some extent. How effective is the knife? Again, as you alluded to, it depends...
david
I don't believe there is a uniform response to being stabbed, shot or anything else. Depends on the receiver and the wielder of the weapon.
I got into knives several years ago because of two separate incidents near my work place. The first involved, one guy stopping three guys with a knife. All three ended up in the hospital. One almost died from a nick to the heart but survived because a top notch hospital happens to be in the immediate neighborhood.
The second incident involved two taking on seven, eight or more opponents. Of the two, one was wielding a knife. He was also a big guy. The net effect was 7 or 8 people stabbed and slashed. No fatalities, but the fight ended fairly quickly with the other side scattering.
I also have three friends who were on the receiving end of stab wounds. One received a stab in the back in a melee. He said it felt like a hard punch but he didn't realize he was stabbed until after the fight and saw the blood. Another fought someone with a knife and was stabbed through the calf, severing an artery. He continued to fight and prevailed but almost died from the lost of blood. Finally, another was stabbed in the stomach. He was fully aware of being stabbed. He disengaged quickly. As he said, "Ain't no sense in staying around and getting stabbed to death."
I believe to learn to defend against the knife, one needs to learn to use it to some extent. How effective is the knife? Again, as you alluded to, it depends...
david
ARMED AND FEMALE
My LEO friend went to New York for training and used his credentials to get in to see NY's top forensic pathologist. As well as everthing else they talked about, he specifically inquired about deaths due to a knife...the answer - all deaths were due to a knife were from mutiple (deep) stab wounds to the major organs. (I forget what specifically 'all' meant!) Your friend had the best idea, to vacate f-a-s-t!
I must admit that my training with the blade has two forms, a self defense form where I use a lot of slashes as defensive tech's to back him off and let me go and deep thrusts that I use against FMAs when sparring!
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Ted T.
The Fighting Old Man
[This message has been edited by Sochin (edited 10-08-99).]
I must admit that my training with the blade has two forms, a self defense form where I use a lot of slashes as defensive tech's to back him off and let me go and deep thrusts that I use against FMAs when sparring!
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Ted T.
The Fighting Old Man
[This message has been edited by Sochin (edited 10-08-99).]
