Women of Uechi, DH Lawrence, and Politics (re-visited)

Lori · Post by **Lori** » Sat Sep 23, 2000 5:18 am

An old favorite of mine - since politics came up in the sparring thread - I thought I'd revisit a discussion about the female role in martial arts... and politics are ever present.

Lori
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posted May 19, 1999 01:15 AM
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After the last thread - I'm going to try this one again. No bites last time. If the women don't have an opinion that can be voiced - we don't deserve to be heard. On the other hand - for you guys out there - maybe you can give some of these questions your distinctly male perspective.
I ask you here - what is to be the female role in the continuation of this art?

There aren't that many of us it seems - although our number is growing - slowly - but growing.

Not too many participate here! Why? Politics? Fear of being "flamed"? Not a member of the right organization - or perhaps a member of an organization that shuns this site and therefore afraid to post for fear of reprisal? Or - and here is a very real concern - one of my own even - publicly acknowledging that you are a female martial artist often attracts strange attentions from those who seek out "strong" or unique women. Yet I feel that the female contributions to our style are many - involving aspects that may hide behind the testosterone - the karate "scene" is male dominated. Given. It's difficult for a female to be acknowledged as a leader in many aspects of life - and perhaps even moreso in this very male martial art. (Try running a dojo as a woman!) But our participation preserveres - what are we going to do to continue this art?

Oh there is much more to this issue - and eventually I'll find the words to give it the right thread.

For now I post a quote appropriate to politics - from D.H. Lawrence:

When we get out of the glass bottles of our ego,
and when we escape like squirrels turning in
the cages of our personality
and get into the forests again,
we shall shiver with cold and fright
but things will happen to us
so that we don't know ourselves.
Cool, unlying life will rush in,
and passion will make our bodies taut with power,
we shall stamp our feet with new power
and old things will fall down,
we shall laugh, and institutions will curl up like
burnt paper.

Women need to remember to run with the wolves - and not be left behind - picking up the scraps.

Where does the female ego play? Can we balance the male ones of our style? What is to be our role?

Peace,
Lori

[This message has been edited by Lori (edited 05-27-99).]

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Lori
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posted May 27, 1999 12:08 AM
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Jackie? Natalie? Melanie? Women seniors and beginners? Help me out here. I know some of you are reading this - what IS our role?
And the gentlemen are certainly free to venture their opinion - don't worry about politically correct - for all the talk of equality - we have to acknowledge our differences. This has manifested itself in numerous ways: rank - awarding of rank - testing requirements - protective gear - leadership - hitting women too hard - not hard enough -

I could go on - but we KNOW there are differences. So how do these play in trying to foster growth as a style? Strangely - this is an echoing sentiment expressed recently on the roundtable. I ask it here from the standpoint of women karateka.

Open forum folks. What do you think?

Peace,
Lori

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JohnC
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posted May 27, 1999 12:58 AM
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Lori:
One answer, is there is no need to make more of a mark than that of a good karateka!

Another way of looking at this, is many(not all) men that come to Uechi and karate in general are naturally strong or have natural or developed fighting skills that have little to do with Uechi. They are able to make a mark without relying totally on execution and technique. For example, even without using Sanchin strength, they can push/toss the uke in bunkai, etc.

Most women(not all) do not have this advantage. They have more to develop and more to overcome. They rely more on execution and kinza to bring about mastery in the kumite ring or the kata performance than natural power. They must rely more on Sanchin power in /pushing tossing their bunkai partners.

It seems that this could have some residual implications in the ultimate contribution to karate and certainly to teaching. Women can better appreciate it when things don't come easily.

This all said, not respecting that Uechi karate was never intended to be practiced by women!

JohnC

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Jackie Olsen
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posted May 27, 1999 10:49 AM
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Lori-San,
I didn't jump in to answer because your question deserved some deep thinking. When I first became aware of Sensei Mattson's Uechi-Ryu Forum on the Net, I asked him where were the women of Uechi-Ryu and what was their history. He told me that there's not much written about the "pioneers," although in Sensei Mattson's and Sensei Moulton's books, several women have contributed articles. I remember hearing of Joan Neide. I know of Sensei Peggy Hess because I met her at the Kalamazoo Summer Camp one year. At my dojo, I am the 3rd Black Belt woman in Sensei Arch's 33 years of Karate ... (we're all active, though separated by either miles or family duties which prohibit training together). Other than that, I know the history/lineage of men in this style much better, and that is a sad commentary.

I've been taught by my spiritual path that energetically each woman must come to know the male warrior inside, while each man must know his female warrior. In a matriarchal society (of which their are few, if any, in this day and age), I understand that if the men want to go to war, they consult the women first. If the Grandmothers say, "NO" ... the men won't fight period. If this were true today, what would happen, I wonder?

In the balance of male and female enegies I would like to think that we can complement each other ... as long as women don't get into being one of the boys, but draw instead on our inherent "soft power" that can permeate into every nook and cranny with an unyielding determination, intent and focus of the task at hand. Perhaps we can mirror the flexible willow tree to the strong oak. The oak tree when it becomes too rigid may crack or break in two. The willow can show the softness of flowing like a river with techniques, while the oak can lend stability and "staying power" to the often fragile willow. As a woman, I subscribe to running with the wolves and allowing the wildness and naturalness to emerge.

I am grateful for the men in my dojo, those on this forum (Van Canna, Evan, Gary, JD, Tony, the Davids, John, Allen, Sensei Mattson, Rich, Jason, Bill, and others) who strongly show me the ways of reality based training. I admire your strength, your minds/thinking, and your passion for our Art.

To the women who have gone before me, I say "thank you," for helping pave the way. Perhaps my acceptance by the men came a little easier because of your dedication, perseverance, and power.

As for my role, to echo John's thoughts ... I hope that I am a good kareteka and teacher to others. To me Uechi-ryu is my way, my art, my passion. Take away that, and you take away who I am.

Domo to all past, present and future masters and students,

In beauty,
Jackie

[This message has been edited by Jackie Olsen (edited 05-27-99).]

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Van Canna
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posted May 27, 1999 05:43 PM
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Jackie -san ,
Your words epitomize the image and credo of the sophisticated European woman I am more familiar with !

This is for you : < There are a few things that never go out of style , and a feminine woman is one of them ! And no one knows like a feminine woman how to say things which are at once gentle and deep >

Yours was a most wonderful post !

Peace ,

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Van Canna

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david
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posted May 27, 1999 07:44 PM
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Jackie,
Yours are words that touch. I do often speak about "reality based" because that is a concern of what I do for work and where I work. My martial arts practice has that as a concern. But really this is not enough to keep me in the practice. My practice, hopefully, at a deeper level, is really about finding the Way. On this level, the practice is really to discover how to act with integrity and honesty and to bring that discovery and understanding to all other aspects of my life.

I am sorry I can't speak about leadership, female or male. I really don't what that means except to act with integrity and honesty, regardless of whether others follow the lead or not.

Jackie, I can relate well to your metaphor of the Willow and the Oak. In my small training group, there are two women. I enjoy working with them. I enjoy their discovery and development of the strength and the power within. And, I share John's observation that men may come to this practice with more power and fighting ability that have little to do with the practice of Uechi. While that natural power is to be respected, it doesn't hold me in awe for it will inevitably fade. On the other hand, as I have mentioned in the past, the ability of some men like a Ghandi, a Mandela, or King to forsake that power, with their lives on the line, for a softer way is for me awesome. That takes courage in a way similar to the women who make the effort to forego when needed, perhaps, of a natural softness.

david

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Knight
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posted May 27, 1999 09:46 PM
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This is some of the best stuff, word for word, in every post, I have ever seen on the Uechi forums. Lori, the DH Lawrence quote is worthy of memorization. John, please tell me more about kinza. Jackie, as Van and Gary will attest, I study the feminine as well as masculine warrior ethics. Am I mistaken, or was the Crane methodology pioneered by women as well as men? And, weren't the early Korean martial artists mentored by nuns? Domo to you, and I hope to meet you at summer camp. And David, you are frankly fascinating, now that I've seen you spar. We're about the same size, I believe. While I may not have the lightning reflexes I observed in your technique, I can at least aspire to your mental/emotional/physical breadth and quickness. And Van, enigmatic Uechi man. Live long!
Michael
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Van Canna
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posted May 27, 1999 11:14 PM
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Michael -san ,
You are thoroughly " Au Fait " in these matters !

The beautiful sentiments expressed here by lori et al seem to bond us all together holding hands under the mills of God slowly grinding out our destinies !

Yet , as the stormy billows of these fineries cudgel one's brains , we shall forever feel as light , useless , idle , wavering and changeable leaves , which , as they dance in life's maelstrom , seek the delivering whispering winds of God making them part of the oak !

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Van Canna

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JohnC
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posted May 28, 1999 12:17 AM
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Jackie:
Always a pleasure to read the posts of a true wordsmith! More please!

Michael:

It is my understanding that kinza is focusing on the finer points in kata, waza, etc. It's breaking down moves to smaller and smaller detail, rather than focusing on the flow, or overall picture.

It's the fulcrum of martial heavy lifting, so to speak.

I was trying to suggest that the legacy of women in karate might be they must focus more on the "fulcrum" to get the job done. Perhaps this can lead to more elegant karate and teaching.

JohnC

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JohnC
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posted May 28, 1999 12:19 AM
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Lori:
You must have changed the bait, 'cause we're biting now!

JohnC

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natalie lane
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posted May 28, 1999 08:29 AM
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Jackie...beautiful...thank you...
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Jackie Olsen
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posted May 28, 1999 11:36 AM
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Van Canna
Thank you ... you have touched my heart and poured a gentle rain upon my soul ...

David ... "Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful." Samuel Johnson

I respect and honor you for seeking and living your truth with integrity and knowledge.

Knight Thanks for your comments. I didn't know that about the Nuns ... fascinating. Do you have a book or aritcle that talks about this? I hope to meet you, soon, too!

JohnC & Natalie ... Thanks ... nice to hear from you again! I appreciate this forum so much, as it helps me connect with those who are of like mind and spirit. And, there's enough spice and differences to keep it interesting!

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In Beauty,

Jackie

[This message has been edited by Jackie Olsen (edited 05-28-99).]

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Knight
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posted May 28, 1999 07:10 PM
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Jackie,
The Hwa Rang (Flowering Youth) were formally presented to King Chin-hung in Silla (Korea) in 576 BC. The Buddhist nuns who were the spiritual leaders of the Hwa Rang were called Won Hwa (Original Flower). Some mythic accounts wrongfully name a single nun Won Hwa; in fact they were a group. Anyway, the Hwa Rang were chosen at birth to become spiritual warriors. They studied Nei Ching (an ancient book explaining ki) and were reputed to perform many supernatural acts. The Hwa Rang went on to develop pressure point combat, sword and bow skills, and the softer martial form Yu Sul, great grandfather of Jujitsu. They also developed Su Bak, later known as Tae Kyon, written in Chinese characters meaning "push shoulder." (Anyone thinking of Sanchin yet?)
I like a book called "The Warrior is Silent" by Scott Shaw, Ph.D. It has a much more detailed history, a section on meditation, one on ki, and finally a fantastic section on "Refining the Physical Disciplines."

Cordially,
Michael

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david
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posted May 29, 1999 06:15 AM
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jackie, Michael,
Thanks for the nice words. I tend to be a bit embarassed by these and not respond when they are given. (fraud syndrome. Mike you should analyze me.)

I like the info on the Korean arts. This is one of the martial arts areas that I don't seem to have an interest in. A prejudice I developed from my tournament years. Anyway, I lent a book out to someone (Who? wish they would return it.) that you, Michael, may be interested in reading if you have not already. It's titled, Living the Martial Way, by (?) Forrest. Forrest is a high ranking TKD practitioner and an Air Force officer.

Regards,

david

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Jackie Olsen
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posted May 29, 1999 11:03 AM
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Michael-san ...
Thanks for the info. I plan on ordering the book today ... that is a fascinating account!

Regards,

Jackie

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Knight
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posted May 29, 1999 11:14 PM
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Hello, David and Jackie O,
No analysis needed, David. Compliments can be like fish hooks. We can be gracious in response, of course, but also aware that some may praise us not to give but to exchange. Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll check it out.

Jackie, I hope you like the book. You may also want to check out a new periodical called "Dragon Times," which focuses on traditional martial arts. I recall seeing a picture of a woman sparring with a crane in a recent issue.

Michael

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lori macleod-doyle
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posted August 03, 1999 01:39 PM
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greetings ,
i'v just read your forum for the first time and must say enjoyed it greatly.i am currently studying uechi-ryu with sensei dave hunt in bedford nova scotia,canada. we are very lucky to have a rather large contingent of females in our do-jo.we are fortunate to have an instructor who does not discriminate but asseses each student according to their own abilities.this attitude seems to foster an ability to look at ones own self and ones own strengths and weeknesses rather than comparing to the largest or strongest or toughest males in the class.i know i'll never be as strong or as tough as these guys but i think that i can be the best karateka that i can be if i work as hard and as diligently as i can for me.we all study for different reasons and i know that my reasons affect the way that i work out in the do-jo.each person,male or female,has the abilities to go as far as they want to if the desire is there.i know that some people quit because they don't advance as quickly as they want to.those people don't want to study, they want belts.people who study,work hard and perservere will attain one goal at a time.mayby it will take longer but these goals will be earned and will be respected.i know that when my sensei tells me i'm ready,that he believes i have earned the right to stand before a testing board. he does not give rank indiscriminatly and for this i respect and thank him.if he feels that i am not ready to be promoted i know that it is because he wants me to be more prepared.not because i am female!
i don't know what the roll of women in other do-jos is but in our do-jo we have two female instructors who i have great respect and admiration for. they are strong,technical and i think excellent roll models for not just the female students but all the students in our club.i hope that some day i will be as proficient as these two.
thank-you for giving female karateke a place to discuss the things that that effect us all,positive or negative.domo,
lori macleod-doyle

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Knight
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posted August 03, 1999 10:24 PM
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Hello to you, Lori M-D!
Thanks for reviving this thread. It was well worth reading every post again. Your dojo sounds to me like a good example of what a 21st century martial arts school should incorporate. The dojo where I practice is young, but already has strong female presence also.
Michael
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lori macleod-doyle
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posted August 04, 1999 10:07 AM
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hi michael,
as i am new to this forum, i didn't realize this thread was inactive until after i sent my posting.thank-you for your response.
our do-jo is a young one as well but as i stated earlier we do have a lot of female students. i feel that this gives us the opportunity to share our experiences and to help each other with things that are unique to women in the do-jo.
mayby a technique that works well for the smaller female form. mayby just an adjustment to the way a technique is applied. whatever it is, there are more of us to exchange ideas with so therefor a lot less frustration for those of us of the female persuasion.

LORI M-D
[This message has been edited by lori macleod-doyle (edited 08-06-99).]

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Lori
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posted August 07, 1999 07:00 PM
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Lori M-D:
Welcome to the forum! Please excuse the tardiness of my response but I've been out of town for some intensive training - and haven't had any time to get on the forum for the last week...

Nice to hear from one of our Canadian sisters - and I hope we will hear more from you - please feel welcome to introduce any subject you feel pertinent - we've run the gamut here - and I have no problem reviving any older threads or subjects (especially this one - as one of my favorites) as we get new readers all the time.

I've got a few topics on the back burner - as soon as I've settled in to the new routine with school starting I hope to get them up soon - meantime - please don't be shy! This is YOUR forum - and we need input from martial artists like you with positive experiences to share - (not everyone has it that good!)

Again, welcome and looking forward to your future posts!

Peace,
Lori

P.S. To the regular readers/participants of this forum - thank you for your continuing interest - I still feel that this is a valuable resource for martial artists - both male and female - which is why I have not given it up even though the last couple months have been difficult. As a cyber-extension of the dojo - my hope is that this forum will be a venue for continued education and sharing in the arts.

Allons!

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Knight
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posted August 07, 1999 09:55 PM
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So...there you are.
I missed you! Can you imagine a camp without you? Well, let me tell you, it's not the same. I hear something about your OWN dojo. Truth?
I'm about to take off for a conference. If I'm a week or so late in replying, please forgive.
Michael
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Lori
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posted August 07, 1999 10:08 PM
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Hi Michael-san - yes I missed seeing you again at camp! I was looking forward to catching up - I can hardly believe an entire year has gone by since we conversed the first time as I was chasing my munchkin around the gym... (he does a cute version of sanchin now by the way!)
Not sure what you mean by my own dojo... email me if you like and I'll clarify whatever you like!

As for camp - a set of circumstances descended upon me over the last month - involving a serious family illness and death, a new job, and a few other minor details that made getting away impossible... hopefully next summer will be more serene! Meanwhile - if you are ever down south - the dojo doors are open!

Have a good conference - just back from one myself! (My brain is fried - hope yours fares better!)

Peace,
Lori

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Shelly King
unregistered posted August 10, 1999 09:50 PM
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Though I have been studying Uechi-ryu for only a month, I feel I can offer a slightly different view on women's roles in karate. My husband and myself began taking classes together as a way to get into shape (Which I must says beats any aerobics class hands down). Sensei Klossner was very up-front on the differences between men and women, stressing that Bruce, my husband, would rely mostly on his strength and that I would have to develop speed to be effective. Being a small dojo, Sensei is able to really work on our weaknesses. He spends extra time with the men working on smoothness and the women (myself and his wife) on strength. Because we started at the same time, it is really interesting to see that what I pick up easily my husband has trouble with and on the other hand, what I have difficulty with is no problem for him. I do find during class that the majority of the men do go easier on me than they probably should. On the other hand, Sensei is always pushing the limit though amazingly never crossing it.
On a perosonal note, I am really glad I found this web site. It has been a long time since I had something I felt this passionate about. I am really looking forward to the years of training to come.

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Shelly

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david
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posted August 11, 1999 05:03 AM
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Shelly, welcome and pleased stay involved. As various folks have posted, your opinions as a beginner and as a female really help provide a fuller discussion of various topics that come up in these forums.
It is really nice to have something to be passionate about. We are share that here.

david

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Kevin Mackie
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posted August 11, 1999 08:46 AM
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Shelly, welcome to the forums. You are to be commended for your decision to pursue the Uechi style in your immersion into the martial arts world. The path you have chosen is not a beaten one, especially for a woman as those who post on Lori's forum can attest.
It is a tribute to your determination that you did not chose an easy way to fulfill your goals.

It is on this forum and others on this site where those who cleared the path for all of us join in to help one another learn and grow in our understanding of theory and practice.

VTY,

Kevin

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lori macleod-doyle
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posted August 12, 1999 10:50 PM
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hello shelly,
i understand where you're comming from. my husband and i started studing uechi at the same time as well.(aprox 4 1/2 yrs. ago)we also found that we learned very differently.
some movements came very easily to one while the other struggled.we also found that size was a factor. i am 5' 4" while my husband is just over 6' tall. remember that the okinawans are smaller and more compact a people by nature . therefore , those of us who are smaller in stature have a natural advantage. observe two people preforming the same kata. one is tall and lanky while the other is shorter and stockier. the smaller person, often has the nicer looking kata in my opinion. because the people who developed this style were smaller, many of the movements seem more natural when preformed by a smaller person. (of course this is just my opinion.)
as far as conditioning goes, you must let your partner know when to go heavier or when to lighten up. some men have a difficult time hitting a women and it is up to you to let them know what you can or can't take. when my husband and i started i always felt i had to keep up with the guys and i sported some very colorful bruises for a while. i soon learned it was important to allow bruises to heal before turning up the conditioning again. conditioning should be done slowly and consistently.unfortunatly women seem to take a little longer to become well conditioned but that is an important part of our style .
you neen to be able to take some hits if you're going to move in and make your move.
my husband and i have progressed through the ranks together and only reciently did he move ahead to out rank me.(only in the do-jo of course!!)i hope you and your husband enjoy many years of study as my husband and i have.uechi is not the easiest of styles but it is most rewarding.
good luck .....lori m-d
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[This message has been edited by lori macleod-doyle (edited 08-13-99).]

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Lori
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posted August 12, 1999 11:28 PM
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Excellent advice Lori M-D! And thanks for your participation - the more women who can jump in here and share their insights - the better off all of us will be...
Welcome to the forum Shelley! Great to have you. It is really important to hear what newer students have to say as well as those who have been around for a while - each new level of understanding is a progression, but we all need reminders of what it was like before we got to the place we are now - beginner and advanced alike! Your input serves to remind all of us that there ARE concerns that differ between genders when beginning the study of this art - and I thank you for bringing them up here. I hope to see you become a reugular contributor.

Peace,
Lori

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Shelly King
unregistered posted August 13, 1999 09:29 AM
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Thanks for all the advice. In fact last Wednesday during class, Sensei saw the male student I was training with pull a strike back while we were training together. I didn't catch the fact he had done it but Sensei sure did. The male student got about a 2 min. lecture on how he isn't doing me any favors by developing a false sense of security in me and I received about a 4 min lecture on making sure that I demand my partners to push my abilities. OH! Have to go...boring meeting.
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JOHN THURSTON
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posted August 15, 1999 12:18 PM
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Lori et al:
Well, half my small school are ladies, so this is clearly a question I should address to them.

Oversimplification is a pain, I know, but I am not sure that the question of what their place was really stuck in my mind.

They made their place. I don't think we "accomodate" them.

I think its clear that we have to explain to them they have to be technically precise in execution of blocks and general structure, as do we all when contemplating dealing with larger opponents.

The Kyusho connection /direction would seem to especially an area of focus for those facing a probability of dealing with such situations.

JOHN T.

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Mary S
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posted August 16, 1999 03:10 PM
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Hello out there. Just joined the forum today and thought I'd throw in my two cents. I am fortunate to go to the same dojo as Lori MacLeod-Doyle (Hi Lori!!) and working with Dave Hunt in Bedford, NS has been a wonderful experience. I have been reading with interest what has been written about men and women in the dojo. One thing I have started to notice as I progress is that the distance (difference) between the two sexes has diminished a bit. There seems to be a familiarity present in our dojo and a sense of respect not only to our senseis but to fellow students as well. I'm not sure this is the same for everyone as they continue the journey but my experience has been that I take something away from every workout with partners - male or female. My concentration seems to be on the karate. To me there will always be differences - some will have more strength, some - more flow. I try to take a litle bit from both... Please continue this forum...very interesting stuff!!!
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Shelly King
unregistered posted August 17, 1999 04:48 PM
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Hello ladies, and gents, I have to say, I'm finding I do prefer to practice with men than women. I feel they tend to demand, at least, more from my reflexes; even if they are trying to "take it easy on me" sometimes. What is really surprising me though, that despite my aggressively competative nature, I'm not getting upset with how slowly my training is coming. Being an engineer, most things have always come easily for me (excluding my painful, sleep-deprived years at college). This is something that isn't "clicking" right away and I'm actually OK with that. I still grumble to myself when I can't get a certain move down, but it really doesn't bother me other than to try harder. I wonder if the majority of female martial artists are women who chose to work and play in male dominated areas even outside the dojo...sorry, had to do some actual work for a minute and have now lost my train of thought...I think where I was maybe going with this eventually would be asking for any tips on how to develop that "killer instinct". I've noticed when I practice after a really bad day at work, my kata looks and feels better. I think because I'm imagining our production manager lying broken and bloody at my feet...or something like that. All advice welcomed.
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Shelly

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lori macleod-doyle
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posted August 17, 1999 10:16 PM
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HELLO ALL,
I AGREE WITH SHELLY ABOUT WORKING OUT WITH THE GUYS. YOU CERTAINLY DO TEND TO GET YOUR REACTIONS TUNED UP IN A HURRY.
THE THING TO REMEMBER SHELLY, IS THAT YOU WILL NOT MASTER ANYTHING QUICKLY IN THE MARTIAL ARTS. IT IS A GRADUAL SERIES OF SMALL
ACCOMPLISMENTS.I STILL FIGHT WITH MY STANCE. SOME DAYS EVERY THING FEELS GOOD. THE NEXT DAY YOU FEEL LIKE A WHITE BELT AGAIN.IT'S TRUE WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT WORKING OUT AFTER A BAD DAY .THERE ARE NIGHTS I LITERALLY HAVE TO DRAG MYSELF TO THE DO-JO. THESE ARE OFTEN MY BEST WORKOUTS.MAYBY IT'S THE SUBCONCIOUS MINDS WAY OF ALEVIEATING THE DAYS STRESS.I DON'T KNOW, BUT OFTEN IT'S EXACTLY WHAT I NEED. I DEAL WITH THE PUBLIC EVERY DAY ON A PRETTY PERSONAL LEVEL( I AM A HAIRSTYLIST) AND I CAN CERTAINLY RELATE TO YOUR VISUALIZATION OF YOUR PRODUCT MANAGER BROKEN AND BLOODY.THE MARTIAL ARTS ARE THE BEST FORM OF STRESS RELIEF I'VE COME ACCROSS.KEEP WORKING ON YOUR BASICS AND EVERY THING WILL COME ALONG IN TIME. WHEN THINGS START TO FALL APART ON ME I ALWAYS GO BACK TO THE BASICS.
IT IS TRUE WHAT THEY SAY, ALL IS IN SANCHIN.
LORI M-D

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Shelly King
unregistered posted August 17, 1999 10:43 PM
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Thanks Lori M-D
I might have to start thinking twice before I use my stylist as a shrink next time. I bet he does get tired of everyone telling him about their bad day. Have to say karate has done wonders for my stress level. When I started, my stress level was so high I was one step away from randomly mowing people down with my car. Now, setting in traffic for 45 min. doesn't even bother me. Gives me time to learn the hojo undo (sorry about the spelling. Now the only time I really get worked up about anything is if something comes up at work that will make me miss class. I've already moved one business trip to next week because I refused to miss this Wednesday's class. Special guest and all that. However I will miss next Monday. Anyone know a dojo in Omaha, NE? I don't know if it's the woman or engineer in me, but I'm facinated (and determined) with perfecting each single element of kata. Right now the hardest thing about the pace, is putting up with my husband's ego. He's starting to get a little cocky for a white belt.

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Shelly

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lori macleod-doyle
Member
Posts: 107
Registered: Aug 99
posted August 17, 1999 11:43 PM
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hi shelly,
i really do enjoy hearing what goes on with my clients.i love my job and most days are fun and interesting,but we all know what people can be like. it only takes one to ruin a perfectly good day. i'm sure your stylist is the same way and is interested in what you're doing.just remember to ask him how he is from time to time.i'm sure he'll apprecieate it.
as far as your kata goes, like i said, it is a gradual thing.you just have to keep at it. don't get frustrated. keep a clear mind and don't over think it. as soon as i start to think about what comes next i screw up.work on your basic movements as much as you can. i can't tell you how many times people have walked into our staff room to find me working on an elbow strike or a jump back. i've gotten a few very strange looks while sitting in traffic and working on a particular hand movement.people must think i'm nuts!!!but i get obsessed with certain movements.i really love the fluidity of the katas and when you can combine the strength , the speed and the fluidity together it is a beautiful feeling.
i just wish i could get it all together more often.but that is what keeps us coming back to the do-jo.the search for perfection. i'll tell you a secret,there is no such thing as a perfect kata. but by god i'm going to try to get as close as i can!!!!!
as far as your husbands ego goes, don't worry. eventually he'll get put in his place.
there is always someone smoother,faster, stronger or whatever.everyone seems to go through an ego stage.i find that most people get over it fairly quickly ,thank god. if they don't there is usually someone who is willing to help them.do you and your husband work out together? my husband and i figured out very early on that we shouldn't pair off in the do-jo. neither one of us took criticism very well from the other.it really works well for us and also keeps the peace at home.good luck and i hope you enjoy your class wenesday night.special guests always make for an interesting workout.
LORI M-D :-)

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Shelly King
unregistered posted August 18, 1999 12:17 AM
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Lori M-D
You are either in a distant time zone or you are one big night owl. I'm only up because one day a week I get the honor of supporting 2nd and 3rd shift at our plant.
I have developed a habit of photocopying in Sanchin. And yes I have gotten some really weird looks. Not to mention half the plant thinks I'm a battered wife because of my bruises.(no I'm not getting hit too hard in class, it is that wonderful German paleness and I'm sure some vitamin or mineral I'm lacking in my system, the whole family bruises really, really easily). It is also a good thing we don't use video cameras at work. The warehouse makes a really nice place to practice.
Sensei split us up when working in class, best move he has made yet. We were constantly nagging at each other. We do good as long as we only practice kata together. Anything else, and it gets ugly fast. Yeah, I'm waiting for someone to knock him down a few notches. A little humble pie isn't going to hurt him any.
I definately know what you mean by over-thinking the next move. In Kanchiwa kata(I know bad spelling), I never get the conversion from Sokuto geri to shiko dache which throws off the whole elbow strike. I'm thinking about getting that one move right from the moment we bow up to the point I screw it up. All I do is end up behind all the way through. I know, I know, one tiny step at a time.

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Shelly

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Robb in Sacramento
Member
Posts: 111
Registered: Sep 98
posted August 18, 1999 01:02 AM
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Lori M-D: I love your observations, especially about San Chin. My wife chides me that I can't yawn without turning it into some movement from a kata. I am not sure she is exagerating.
Shelly:

If you are an engineer, your mind and spirit have already been tested. So now, learning karate is just a matter of letting your body take over. Bright Uechi students sometimes make this art a bit too cerebral. Most great karate masters were farmers. Perhaps it has something to do with being in touch with the earth and in touch with themselves (I am from California, I can't help the touchy feely reference). It probably also has something to do with staying in rather good physical shape.

In all seriousness, the biggest obstacle to learning karate for most professionals is they spend too much time thinking and not enough time just doing. If you think about the kata or a movement, it is not the same as feeling the kata or movement. My first teacher use to say that after seven times through the kata one should have the movements. After that, it was a question of feeling the movement and perfecting the form.

Karate movements can be intimidating because many of us bring an expectation of some kind of performance and application to our learning the movement. We think we need to get it right the first time so we can use it if we need to. Except for the exceptionally gifted, few of us get a movement the first time through. Most of us are lucky if we are figuring it out a few years down the road. The Shotokan instructors are fond of relating a story of Funakoshi on his death bed doing rising blocks and proclaiming that he was finally mastering and understanding the technique.

As millions of Tae Bo students are learning though, if ones only expectation is exercise, karate like movements can be incorporated into a pattern of movements after a few viewings. Don't let the expectation of application or of perfecting a movement get in your way of doing the movement. Have fun. This is fun stuff. Enjoy. Peace.

Robb in Sacramento

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JohnC
Member
Posts: 199
Registered: Sep 98
posted August 18, 1999 12:45 PM
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Robb and others:
Very apt comment about over intellectualizing karate and making it too cerebral. I have this tendancy, too. Questions, wondering, this forum, etc, usually beyond my measure of study.

Maybe the early years with the GI's in Okinawa/Japan got the best training from Okinawans - grunts, hand signals, simple commands "lower" " Do again" "Makiwara"
etc. no over intellectualizing here! Just plain, hard repetitive practice with taskmasters.

One of my martial arts teachers repeatedly tells me to just " do it"

JohnC

[This message has been edited by JohnC (edited 08-18-99).]

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Sue
"Newbie"
Posts: 5
Registered: Aug 99
posted August 18, 1999 11:31 PM
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Hello all, I've just signed up. I find this forum facinating. I've just read through the responces to the original question and subsequent flow of topic. This topic does seem to stike a cord with many, resulting in many most elequent responces.
(please forgive spelling, I'm lost without my spell check )
I'd like to add my two cents to the original question. Because it's been almost 15 years since I first became involved with martial arts, I've had some time to ponder this whole issue. I feel the study of martial arts in general and Uechi-Ryu in particular, by women, has a role and effect in many areas.
The first area is personal. This I don't think is very different for men and women. People start practicing karate for many reasons; health, fitness, self defence, fun, social contacts, self confidence, stress management, and so on. If people keep studying the art, the reasons often change, but remain meaningful to the student. There may be some reasons more common to women, others more common to men, and of course many reasons common to both.
The second area affected is in the dojo. This effect is often influenced by the Sensei, and other senior students. As many of you have found (by your comments), the Ueichi-Ryu style seems to have developed into/maintained? leaders and instructors with a generally open and supportive attitude toward anyone showing good spirit toward the study of the art. Having women training in a dojo with this attitude only enhances the (I think) fundamental concept of respect for another student based on their spirit, commitment and courage, independant of physical, or mental abilities.
The third area affected is the community, and generally society. I feel, on a basic level, that the perception a person has of their ability to defend/protect themselves physically, has a strong bearing on the person's self confidence and ability to be assertive. There are of course exceptions, however there is research which shows girls involved in sports and regular fitness activities demonstrate increased self confidence through their teens as compared to their inactive peers. Through personal experience I would have to agree with this, having started practicing karate when I was 16. Women involved in karate can support the image of women as strong, fit, physically skilled, and confident,(among other things) without being masculine. This can only be a good thing. As well, as more men with less than open minds about women's role in society meet and interact with karate trained women, we can hope attitudes in general will keep changing.
This was more like a Canadian Toonie, than two cents...
I have more thoughts and would love to hear yours, so I'll be back.
Take care,
Sue
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Lori
Moderator
Posts: 706
Registered: Sep 98
posted August 19, 1999 06:39 PM
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This is really turning out to be a great thread! I'm thrilled to see so much participation from the women of Uechi-ryu - and as usual - the guys are adding much to the discussion!