So the subject was broached within the definition of womanhood - the female or feminine aspect in a higher power/deity/creative force/goddess/mother of god/god as mother idea.
The Gaia principle - as I understand it - is the concept of the entire planet as an organism.
Fits in pretty well with the ideas of mother earth - and given our dependence upon the renewing/creative life-giving qualities of this earth - it isn't too hard to see where this idea comes from.
Mother Earth is not just a "new-age" concept - the image abounds in classical Greek mythology, medieval and earlier mysticism, ancient civilization, native American culture and many others. It is not just coming from a bunch of "tree huggers." There is also the re-surgence of the "cult of Mary" - Mother of God and God as mother that has appeared numerous times throughout history.
Even in classical mythology it could be disputed who really "wore the pants" on Mount Olympus...
Now - I'm not trying to start a religious debate - that is not the purpose of this thread - I only observe that the feminine aspect of deities and other higher power is found in various manifestations - beginning with and not limited to "mother Earth."
It has been observed that one indisputable difference between men and women is this aspect of creation - being able to carry and bear new life. Like the earth - is there an image of a "father earth?" Why not?
So where do you want to go with this? Is it the creative aspect of femininity that sets us apart? Is it more than that? Is it strictly biology? What gets people so riled up about the concept of God as Mother?
Remember - I'm not advocating or espousing any of those particular views as right or wrong - I only question why such an emotional content to the concept? Dare anyone grab this and run with it?
The Gaia Principle
Moderator: Available
-
Gilbert MacIntyre
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: Sydney, NS, Canada
The Gaia Principle
I can't believe this thread wasn't jumped on. I realize I come to the table late, but here I go anyway.
As for God being female: The way I see it if the person relating to the deity is female it only makes sense to me that the deity is female. I'm sure most would understand the reason God is considered male is because it was men who dominated the world in which the books were written.
Who were the great philosophers that pondered on the existance of God. Socrates, Plato, Aristole, Augustine, Eckhart, Aquinas, Bacon, Spinoza and more, but all men. If they had the luxury of believing their god was the same gender as they were, why is it wrong for others to have the same latitude?
In the language of M'iq Ma (???) there was no gender given the great spirit. Not only that, but there was no such thing as a parent without a child, or child without parent.
So when the missionaries arrived they teach of their god, the only god. This god of course is male, God the father. This reinforces the postion of athourity that the priest has, Father so and so. This is further strengthened because another aspect of this god is God the Son, male. This is burned into their minds everytime they bless themselves.
Now remember, there is no parent without child, you must be John's father or Mrs. Smith's child. The blessing was taught to the natives this way. In the name of the Father, who has a son, and the son who has a father, the Holy spirit, Amen.
Remember also what Meister Eckhart said " The eye with which you see God is the same eye with which God see's you." Also "All things are in God, and God in all things. I am God communicating...". God is in you or does not exist at all. Is it so hard to accept that a female may feel more comfortable relating to a female deity, if that deity is suppose to reside within her.
If you prefer to throw all of these views out and stick with an arguement of "God is God" male, white, old, long beard. Think of it this way, this is what I tell my daughters. If God is all powerful, why can't she be woman or man or young or old. If God is all powerful, human efforts to restrict her to just one view is crazy.
As for God being female: The way I see it if the person relating to the deity is female it only makes sense to me that the deity is female. I'm sure most would understand the reason God is considered male is because it was men who dominated the world in which the books were written.
Who were the great philosophers that pondered on the existance of God. Socrates, Plato, Aristole, Augustine, Eckhart, Aquinas, Bacon, Spinoza and more, but all men. If they had the luxury of believing their god was the same gender as they were, why is it wrong for others to have the same latitude?
In the language of M'iq Ma (???) there was no gender given the great spirit. Not only that, but there was no such thing as a parent without a child, or child without parent.
So when the missionaries arrived they teach of their god, the only god. This god of course is male, God the father. This reinforces the postion of athourity that the priest has, Father so and so. This is further strengthened because another aspect of this god is God the Son, male. This is burned into their minds everytime they bless themselves.
Now remember, there is no parent without child, you must be John's father or Mrs. Smith's child. The blessing was taught to the natives this way. In the name of the Father, who has a son, and the son who has a father, the Holy spirit, Amen.
Remember also what Meister Eckhart said " The eye with which you see God is the same eye with which God see's you." Also "All things are in God, and God in all things. I am God communicating...". God is in you or does not exist at all. Is it so hard to accept that a female may feel more comfortable relating to a female deity, if that deity is suppose to reside within her.
If you prefer to throw all of these views out and stick with an arguement of "God is God" male, white, old, long beard. Think of it this way, this is what I tell my daughters. If God is all powerful, why can't she be woman or man or young or old. If God is all powerful, human efforts to restrict her to just one view is crazy.
The Gaia Principle
It seems to me that discussions centered on the differences between women and men always end up giving horribly short shrift to one or the other. Simply saying "men are like this and women are like that" is too easy. The best men I know are hard, strong willed, uncompromising bastards who would die to protect anyone's right to cry. Likewise, the best women I know are sexually self aware, compassionate, maternal creatures who would rip your head off and **** down your neck if you ****ed with them. In other words, the best people I know are the ones who try to embody the best of both worlds. The point shouldn't be whether God is a man or woman, but rather are you doing your best with the life God gave you? Personally, I believe that any being who can create and maintain a universe has got to be above mundane concepts like man or woman, good or evil, extra crispy or original recipe.
The Gaia Principle
Great post.Thanks.
------------------
Van Canna
------------------
Van Canna
The Gaia Principle
Gilbert-san,
Even later I respond to your most welcome post - thanks for taking the time to articulate what you did - excellent point about parent/child - without regard to gender - and even in the Judeo-Christian tradition - <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I think people get stuck on the clay and the stolen rib thing... but this phrase exists as well. And as a "language" hobbyist (of course not being qualified to lecture anyone in fact I have been referred to as "the last person to lecture ... anyone for that matter, on knowledge of the literature" according to a very learned person) I offer only my own very limited and humble perspective here - that language is imprecise - and in the translation of the translation of the translation before finally arriving at English and the complexities involved in relating Greek, Aramaic, Latin and Hebrew into our more modern English - I take it as a matter of course that there is some confusion as to gender. For example: in Spanish when a masculine plural pronoun is used, the group referred to is not necessarily only masculine - it can also contain females - but no cries are made of sexual discrimination in language - (sigh)
el niño the boy
la niña the girl
los niños the boys OR the boys and girls
las niñas the girls
Notice that the special designation is for a group of girls only - so maybe the latin/arabic based languages are more respectful to women? (pure conjecture here)
Anyway - taking that to biblical references - I'm not an expert on Greek, Aramaic, or Hebrew - but I'm guessing that gender references can get a bit mixed up somewhere as English has no equivalent for many aspects of other languages (ever look at those German nouns? Yikes!)
That's just from a linguistic point of view - the more philosophical points brought up by Gilbert-san and sansooboy-san are valid and welcome to the discussion - I didn't think many people would jump on this one anyway. Perhaps the thought of God as "mother" or even as female is a bit too threatening. Gender does get in the way of many things besides karate study - religion is a dangerous subject for debate anyway - but I like what Gilbert-san said about the person relating to God as female if they are female - how could they not? God in a white beard looking down in judgement is one view - a "great spirit" without gender is another - who is to say who is right or wrong? Not me - however - the image of a "mother earth" as expressed in the Gaia principle is intriguing to the whole concept of creation being a feminine principle. This to me relates back to many aspects of life - even into martial arts. For true balance must there not be a yin and a yang - a creative and a destructive cycle? Aren't the healing arts intricately related to martial arts study? Did samurai study killing only or did they not learn calligraphy, the tea ceremony, and flower arranging? Don't some "masters" teach that a martial artist must not only know how to take the body apart (destroy) but also to put it together(heal)? Is karate just striking? Or is it blocking/avoiding too? Is the blocking/avoiding a type of strike? Is it all force in one direction? Or is there a pull as a counter to the push? Does a kata emphasize only the strike? Or are stepping, blocking, pulling and other aspects in there too? So is the earth simply a convenient stage for the virus of humanity to grow and devour? Or are we part of the organism of life growing on this blue marble?
Just rambling. Feel free to pick up where I left off!
Even later I respond to your most welcome post - thanks for taking the time to articulate what you did - excellent point about parent/child - without regard to gender - and even in the Judeo-Christian tradition - <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Genesis 1:27God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.
I think people get stuck on the clay and the stolen rib thing... but this phrase exists as well. And as a "language" hobbyist (of course not being qualified to lecture anyone in fact I have been referred to as "the last person to lecture ... anyone for that matter, on knowledge of the literature" according to a very learned person) I offer only my own very limited and humble perspective here - that language is imprecise - and in the translation of the translation of the translation before finally arriving at English and the complexities involved in relating Greek, Aramaic, Latin and Hebrew into our more modern English - I take it as a matter of course that there is some confusion as to gender. For example: in Spanish when a masculine plural pronoun is used, the group referred to is not necessarily only masculine - it can also contain females - but no cries are made of sexual discrimination in language - (sigh)
el niño the boy
la niña the girl
los niños the boys OR the boys and girls
las niñas the girls
Notice that the special designation is for a group of girls only - so maybe the latin/arabic based languages are more respectful to women? (pure conjecture here)
Anyway - taking that to biblical references - I'm not an expert on Greek, Aramaic, or Hebrew - but I'm guessing that gender references can get a bit mixed up somewhere as English has no equivalent for many aspects of other languages (ever look at those German nouns? Yikes!)
That's just from a linguistic point of view - the more philosophical points brought up by Gilbert-san and sansooboy-san are valid and welcome to the discussion - I didn't think many people would jump on this one anyway. Perhaps the thought of God as "mother" or even as female is a bit too threatening. Gender does get in the way of many things besides karate study - religion is a dangerous subject for debate anyway - but I like what Gilbert-san said about the person relating to God as female if they are female - how could they not? God in a white beard looking down in judgement is one view - a "great spirit" without gender is another - who is to say who is right or wrong? Not me - however - the image of a "mother earth" as expressed in the Gaia principle is intriguing to the whole concept of creation being a feminine principle. This to me relates back to many aspects of life - even into martial arts. For true balance must there not be a yin and a yang - a creative and a destructive cycle? Aren't the healing arts intricately related to martial arts study? Did samurai study killing only or did they not learn calligraphy, the tea ceremony, and flower arranging? Don't some "masters" teach that a martial artist must not only know how to take the body apart (destroy) but also to put it together(heal)? Is karate just striking? Or is it blocking/avoiding too? Is the blocking/avoiding a type of strike? Is it all force in one direction? Or is there a pull as a counter to the push? Does a kata emphasize only the strike? Or are stepping, blocking, pulling and other aspects in there too? So is the earth simply a convenient stage for the virus of humanity to grow and devour? Or are we part of the organism of life growing on this blue marble?
Just rambling. Feel free to pick up where I left off!
The Gaia Principle
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Think of a forest fire. A fire often is seen as a destroyer (?male)but it reality it clears up the debris to make way for the nourishing and regrowth of a healthier forest (? female).
I also believe while we may be male or female... In each of us, there is the element of the other.
david
I like Gilbert's take on it too. For me, it's male and female and neither. They are part of the whole. Creation may be thought of as "female" and this may be related to the idea of birthing. But there would not be such, without the male part (no pun intended.)but I like what Gilbert-san said about the person relating to God as female if they are female - how could they not? God in a white beard looking down in judgement is one view - a "great spirit" without gender is another - who is to say who is right or wrong? Not me - however - the image of a "mother earth" as expressed in the Gaia principle is intriguing to the whole concept of creation being a feminine principle.
Think of a forest fire. A fire often is seen as a destroyer (?male)but it reality it clears up the debris to make way for the nourishing and regrowth of a healthier forest (? female).
I also believe while we may be male or female... In each of us, there is the element of the other.
david
-
Gilbert MacIntyre
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: Sydney, NS, Canada
The Gaia Principle
Nice comparison, Lori.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> religion is a dangerous subject for
debate anyway<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This may be a touchy subject to debate...but isn't that where the real interest lies. How much do we learn about ourselves in safe topics? Within this debate is our inner being, each and everyone of us has some view on our spirit.
A true miracle would be if we could realize my prayer is your meditation and your God is my Universal Chi.
Gilbert.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> religion is a dangerous subject for
debate anyway<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This may be a touchy subject to debate...but isn't that where the real interest lies. How much do we learn about ourselves in safe topics? Within this debate is our inner being, each and everyone of us has some view on our spirit.
A true miracle would be if we could realize my prayer is your meditation and your God is my Universal Chi.
Gilbert.
