A woman

A place to share ideas, concerns, questions, and thoughts about women and the martial arts.

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Mary S
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Post by Mary S »

Looking for some essence? How about Billy Joel's tune "She's Always a Woman to Me". I don't know all the words but if someone would like to post them, there might be some answers there...~grin~
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Van Canna
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Post by Van Canna »

Ouch...here is a zinger.. Image

"Women, by their nature, are not exceptional chess players: they are not great fighters."

Gary Kasparov (b. 1963), Russian chess player.



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Lori
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Post by Lori »

Mary - Mary my girl! Be careful about such sentiment in music when the doctor X lurks in the shadows! He's already got issues with Canadians and Alanis Morrisette...

(but it is a pretty song! Image )

And as for that quote Mr. Van-san, well - I suppose turnabout is fair play - and - if it wasn't for these more extreme sides to the gender barriers - life would be so boring! Imagine if we were all a bunch of hermaphrodites comprised of nothing but biology with no emotion! We'd have nothing to talk about on this forum! Well - some would have it so it seems by distilling us down to a formula... my - but I'm complaining a bit tonight - must be a woman's perogative!
Image
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Van Canna
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Post by Van Canna »

Yes, emotions.. The key to paradise [ Le chiavi del Paradiso]

" Emotion

We find nothing easier than being wise, patient, superior. We drip with the oil of forbearance and sympathy, we are absurdly just, we forgive everything. For that very reason we ought to discipline ourselves a little; for that very reason we ought to cultivate a little emotion, a little emotional vice, from time to time. It may be hard for us; and among ourselves we may perhaps laugh at the appearance we thus present. But what of that! We no longer have any other mode of self-overcoming available to us: this is our asceticism, our penance."

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844–1900), German philosopher. Twilight of the Idols,“Expeditions of an Untimely Man,” aph. 28 (1889).
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Scott Danziger
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Post by Scott Danziger »

Mary S,

Here you go... courtesy of this Billy Joel site loaded with lyrics and midi files. <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/2256 ... el.html</a>.

SHE'S ALWAYS A WOMAN

She can kill with a smile
She can wound with her eyes
She can ruin your faith with her casual lies
And she only reveals what she wants you to see
She hides like a child
But she's always a woman to me

She can lead you to live
She can take your or leave you
She can ask for the truth
But she'll never believe you
And she'll take what you give her as long as it's free
She steals like a thief
But she's always a woman to me

CHORUS
Oh-she takes care of herself
She can wait if she wants
She's ahead of her time
Oh-and she never gives out
And she never gives in
She just changes her mind

She will promise you more
Than the Garden of Eden
Then she'll carelessly cut you
And laugh while you're bleedin'
But she'll bring out the best
And the worst you can be
Blame it all on yourself
Cause she's always a woman to me

CHORUS

She is frequently kind
And she's suddenly cruel
She can do as she pleases
She's nobody's fool
But she can't be convicted
She's earned her degree
And the most she will do
Is throw shadows at you
But she's always a woman to me



[This message has been edited by Scott Danziger (edited October 01, 2000).]
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Van Canna
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Post by Van Canna »

Very true. An ideal is just a fantasy after all, and as all fantasies, once they are realized they seem to lose luster.

The smart/street wise man or woman knows there is no such thing as the perfect ideal, and as Lori said, emotion is the controlling factor.

And so the message of Billy Joel’s song __ But she's always a woman to me__

He couldn’t care less who and what she is, what she has been, how she is with others, as long as she is always a woman to him. What he believes a “woman” defines in his mind and needs is totally personal, as it is in all of us, so the stereotyping is only a guideline.

Same for men. Lots of women put up with so much BS from a special man to them, why? He can be a thief, a drunk, a lazy bum, an ex con, but “ he is my man, and I love him so”!! Women’s ideals of men, whoosh, out the window under the “chemistry cocktail” __ Image


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Panther
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Post by Panther »

OH MY... Just look at all the activity this thread has created! Image Goodness sakes...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lori:

From a female perspective - just gut reaction now - no intellectualizing, psychological or biological theories or what have you - I have found it fairly easy to be emotionally "hijacked" by a male perspective on what makes a woman a woman - or even attractive. The "ideal" is far from the reality - and I confess to my own inner fears in not living up to the "ideal" that my man has created in his heart or mind.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I must confess that my "ideal" woman doesn't fit with the modern media stereotypes that my fellow men seem to care for... Image The fact is, IMNSHO, that no woman should worry about whether she fits a man's "ideals". If she doesn't, then they probably won't get along... and if they're together, then chances are that she does fit his ideals.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Yet the strength, intimacy, and depth of a relationship will move beyond the aesthetics... and when a woman is truly loved - she will KNOW she is HIS ideal - and fears will be assuaged.

Ummmmmm... yeah, that's what I was trying to say... Image Image

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
But when faced with a written word, or a comment about a female in the media or elsewhere, I believe it is natural for a woman to automatically start comparing herself - "what does she have that I don't?" or even "that is what he thinks a "real" woman is? My God I can never live up to that!" It's about expectations - realistic, implied, understood, perceived or otherwise.
Women shouldn't worry about the popular media images that are getting thrown up as the "ideal woman"! Fercryinoutloud, there's at least one man in the world that doesn't agree... and I am he! Given that as fact, I will postulate that there are many, many, many more of us out here! Image

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
If you told your girlfriend a definition coming from part of the one trying to form on this thread - she could very well from a personal perspective feel that it was unrealistic - within her own inner "gut" reaction - much the way any woman might (including me) depending on where the relationship defines her idea of expectations from her man.
Yeah, well... the feedback that I got from a few different women in my life seems to have a consistent tone... I keep hearing, "You always were a romantic. It's sweet that you think of us that way..."

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
The trick here is to try and move beyond the language - beyond the obvious - dig deeper and touch on emotions. Personally I believe that our emotions define us much more than our biology might - and this is a search for an emotional reaction. Not necessarily a definition, a scientific explanation, or even a demand or perception. Just an emotional description of that which defies a good description - because the imprecision of language will always fall short of exactitude on a feeling...
Absolutely.


[This message has been edited by Panther (edited October 02, 2000).]
Allen M.

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Post by Allen M. »

In a recently discovery of ancient Tuba, one of Syria's first cities, by archeologists from The Johns Hopkins University, it was stated: "The women were the most richly ornamented of all the occupants of the tomb, with jewelry of silver, gold and lapis lazuli."

Even 4.300 years ago they had all the wealth.
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Scott Danziger
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Post by Scott Danziger »

Alen,

That was probably jewelry they made their husbands get them while they were alive.

I'll probably be buried with a keyboard. My wife, all the bracelets and necklaces she had accumalated over the years. What will they think of that 5000 years from now?

Scott
Allen M.

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Post by Allen M. »

5,000 years from now? We'll all be dead in 100 years or less.

Keyboard? You're going to die by what you live by, aren't you?

More sobering news about the dark side of womanhood... http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_williams/20001004_xcwwi_men_must_s.shtml
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Panther
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Post by Panther »

Jackie,

I don't know where the high school is but that is B*** S***!

I am really getting sick and tired of the administrators of public schools taking the whole "PC" concept way too far!

[This message has been edited by Panther (edited October 05, 2000).]
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Jackie Olsen
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Post by Jackie Olsen »

All right, all right, I lurked long enough. In the article you posted Allen <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Women can get away with saying just about anything demeaning, evil and harassing to men, while men get into trouble for making the most innocent compliment
.

Let's bring some balance here. At our high school the cheerleaders were given 1 day/1 game SUSPENSION!! for wearing a T-shirt that said "Can't touch this" on the front. Never mind that they are the STATE champs and that their winning routine was MC Hammers' U Can't Touch This.

And, the Boys track team has a T-shirt that says "Off Like a Prom Dress" and the Wrestling Team has one "Lube It Up." All sanctioned.

The principal is even quoted in the paper saying, "It wouldn't have been a problem if the boys were wearing the shirt."

There is discrimination and backlash on both sides of the yin/yang. Not just women; not just men.

Jackie



[This message has been edited by Jackie Olsen (edited October 05, 2000).]
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Jackie Olsen
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Post by Jackie Olsen »

Panther ...

Plainwell High in Michigan ... Should have mentioned that at the game the cheerleaders weren't allowed at, a whole group of parents showed up wearing the shirt and have been doing so ever since. Further discussions with administration have gotten nowhere other than a reminder that "we're a zero-tolerance school..." which has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

Things haven't changed all that much. When I was in high school, I received detention for wearing tennis shoes, along with several other members of the girls basketball team. However, the boys on the athletic teams were allowed to wear them during school.

Thank goodness for martial arts. No one really cares whether I wear a t-shirt, tank top or workout bra under my gi Image!

Jackie

[This message has been edited by Jackie Olsen (edited October 06, 2000).]
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Panther
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Post by Panther »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackie Olsen:

Plainwell High in Michigan ... Should have mentioned that at the game the cheerleaders weren't allowed at, a whole group of parents showed up wearing the shirt and have been doing so ever since. Further discussions with administration have gotten nowhere other than a reminder that "we're a zero-tolerance school..." which has nothing to do with the matter at hand.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good for the parents! That whole "we're bound by the rules and guidelines because we're a 'zero-tolerance' school" is what we referred to when I was a kid as a COP-OUT! Those same damn rules are the ones that some bureaucratic administrator with rectal-cranial inversion dreamt up to fit with their politically correct agenda! Makes me mad. I'm not a parent (and in this climate, glad of the fact), but two years ago my hackles were raised with a similar incident at our local high school. Soooo, in my obviously finite wisdom, I attended the schoolboard meeting where the parents were upset with the administrator (prinicpal) who claimed that his "hands were tied by the rules and guidelines". When the Q&A session was opened up (over an hour later), I asked who had come up with the guidelines. The head of the school board said that they were approved by the school board as they were originally suggested by... (guess who, yep) the principal! To which I responded that since all the school board positions were up for election that year, that it was my position as a concerned citizen that if they didn't get a more competent principal we should, could, and would replace the entire school board with members who would fire the bastard. We have a significantly different school board now, a new principal and the kids are no longer required (read brainwashed) to attend certain "PC" news conferences and funding drives!

Good luck... apologies for this being off topic.



[This message has been edited by Panther (edited October 06, 2000).]
Allen M.

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Post by Allen M. »

Jackie,

My article is not meant to pit man vs. woman. The following article is one little piece of what is going on in American College campused these days.
http://www.thefire.org/issues/columbia092900.php3
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