Perhaps you could look beyond the celluloid and discover the true woman. _JD
Interesting, and it gave me impetus for this new thread.
What defines a “woman” in the eyes of men?
What is the definition of a “woman” as perceived by Anglo-Saxons v. Latin/European men?
What defines a “woman” in the eyes of American women v. Latin/European women?
------------------
Van Canna
A woman
Moderator: Available
A woman
Imagination
It is eminently a weariable faculty, eminently delicate, and incapable of bearing fatigue; so that if we give it too many objects at a time to employ itself upon, or very grand ones for a long time together, it fails under the effort, becomes jaded, exactly as the limbs do by bodily fatigue, and incapable of answering any farther appeal till it has had rest.
John Ruskin (1819–1900), English art critic, author.
[snip]
Imagination very much at rest here, if existing at all.
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Van Canna
[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited September 24, 2000).]
It is eminently a weariable faculty, eminently delicate, and incapable of bearing fatigue; so that if we give it too many objects at a time to employ itself upon, or very grand ones for a long time together, it fails under the effort, becomes jaded, exactly as the limbs do by bodily fatigue, and incapable of answering any farther appeal till it has had rest.
John Ruskin (1819–1900), English art critic, author.
[snip]
Imagination very much at rest here, if existing at all.
------------------
Van Canna
[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited September 24, 2000).]
-
Scott Danziger
- Posts: 929
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Long Island
- Contact:
A woman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Van Canna:
What defines a “woman” in the eyes of men?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Would that be the ideal woman or women in general. Major difference.
I've always had my thoughts about women in general. Usually "Confusing". However, in a nutshell, I think Def Leppard defines women best...
Women
(Clark/Collen/Elliott/Lange/Savage)
Ooh we ooh
Ooh wee ooh
In the beginning
God made the land
Then He made the water and creatures, then He made man
He was born with a passion, love and hate
A restless spirit with a need for a mate
But there was somethin' that was missin', somethin' lost
So he came with the answer, here's what it cost
One part love, one part wild
One part lady, one part child
I give you
Women! women! - Lots of pretty women
Men! men! - They can't live without them
Women! women! - Lots of pretty women
Men! men! - They can't live without them
And in the garden, lust began
The animal instinct, the wanton man
She fed him with a hunger, an appetite
And fillin' with emotion he took a bite
It was one part love, one part child
One part lover, one part wild
I give you
Repeat Chorus
Skin on skin
Let the love begin
Women!
[guitar solo]
It was one part love, one part wild
One part lover, one part child
A whole lotta fire, a little bit of ice
A whole lotta somethin' you can't sacrifice
I give you
Hair, eyes, skin on skin
Legs - Legs
Thighs - Thighs
What's that spell?
(Spell? what's that spell?)
((What's that spell?))
What's that spell?
((What's that spell?))
(Women, women)
Oh! oh! oh!
Oh! oh! oh!
Women - Women
Women
Callin' every girl
Women women
All around the world
Women - Women!
Women
Oh, we can't live without them
Women women
[guitar solo]
What defines a “woman” in the eyes of men?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Would that be the ideal woman or women in general. Major difference.
I've always had my thoughts about women in general. Usually "Confusing". However, in a nutshell, I think Def Leppard defines women best...
Women
(Clark/Collen/Elliott/Lange/Savage)
Ooh we ooh
Ooh wee ooh
In the beginning
God made the land
Then He made the water and creatures, then He made man
He was born with a passion, love and hate
A restless spirit with a need for a mate
But there was somethin' that was missin', somethin' lost
So he came with the answer, here's what it cost
One part love, one part wild
One part lady, one part child
I give you
Women! women! - Lots of pretty women
Men! men! - They can't live without them
Women! women! - Lots of pretty women
Men! men! - They can't live without them
And in the garden, lust began
The animal instinct, the wanton man
She fed him with a hunger, an appetite
And fillin' with emotion he took a bite
It was one part love, one part child
One part lover, one part wild
I give you
Repeat Chorus
Skin on skin
Let the love begin
Women!
[guitar solo]
It was one part love, one part wild
One part lover, one part child
A whole lotta fire, a little bit of ice
A whole lotta somethin' you can't sacrifice
I give you
Hair, eyes, skin on skin
Legs - Legs
Thighs - Thighs
What's that spell?
(Spell? what's that spell?)
((What's that spell?))
What's that spell?
((What's that spell?))
(Women, women)
Oh! oh! oh!
Oh! oh! oh!
Women - Women
Women
Callin' every girl
Women women
All around the world
Women - Women!
Women
Oh, we can't live without them
Women women
[guitar solo]
A woman
Van: I find it very interesting that on another thread where the question is posed to women -on a forum for topics relating to women (you would THINK there would be more women participating here) - the participants are primarily men discussing the merits of various representations of the female character and even "discussability" of women discussing men... or whatever else the subject is today.
Now here is an opportunity for the converse - what is a man's definition of a woman? Is male imagination dead except when provoked by erotica and physcially impossible images of cyber fantasy women? Must needs we have such images in order to discuss the aspects of feminine reality? What about the emotional component? Or am I pushing things too far here?
Where are all the men? How did all the opinions and convictions become so silenced? Do you scare them all away Van? (Except for the steadfast Scott of course! I like the definition you pose in the song!)
I guess unless we talk about guns and blood and knives and throwing up on ourselves to prevent being raped, the guys don't have an opinion? What if we put up cameo pictures of various female sterotypes - must the male imagination be stimulated purely by the visual?
IS THERE NO DEPTH ON THESE PAGES?
[end of rant]
Now here is an opportunity for the converse - what is a man's definition of a woman? Is male imagination dead except when provoked by erotica and physcially impossible images of cyber fantasy women? Must needs we have such images in order to discuss the aspects of feminine reality? What about the emotional component? Or am I pushing things too far here?
Where are all the men? How did all the opinions and convictions become so silenced? Do you scare them all away Van? (Except for the steadfast Scott of course! I like the definition you pose in the song!)
I guess unless we talk about guns and blood and knives and throwing up on ourselves to prevent being raped, the guys don't have an opinion? What if we put up cameo pictures of various female sterotypes - must the male imagination be stimulated purely by the visual?
IS THERE NO DEPTH ON THESE PAGES?
[end of rant]
-
Allen M.
A woman
Lori, Man's imagination is not dead. Sometimes it is just soo difficult to pick the exact words in the proper sequence so they will be properly understood without ambiguity. If I was to say that a man's imagination becomes stimulated by the sounds of a woman in the kitchen, then I would get into trouble real fast so I won't say that, or that the mental vision of a lifetime partner in whatever is simply too mundane unless crafted by a master wordsmith such as Van who could transform them into poetry to make every woman's heart melt.
Tony, I read that woman was the conjunction of several other words. I think I'd better let this one go. Bye.
Tony, I read that woman was the conjunction of several other words. I think I'd better let this one go. Bye.
A woman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Allen M.:
Lori, Man's imagination is not dead. Sometimes it is just soo difficult to pick the exact words in the proper sequence so they will be properly understood without ambiguity. If I was to say that a man's imagination becomes stimulated by the sounds of a woman in the kitchen, then I would get into trouble real fast so I won't say that, or that the mental vision of a lifetime partner in whatever is simply too mundane unless crafted by a master wordsmith such as Van who could transform them into poetry to make every woman's heart melt.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Allen - you wouldn't get into trouble with me by that description - of liking the sound of a woman in the kitchen. Some women love to cook for their man - some for themselves - some hate to cook. That's not the point. But if a man-woman pair enjoys that exchange then it is beautiful and may well be one man's description of his woman - beautiful, poetic to the object of his affection, and nothing wrong with it.
And you do not have to be a wordsmith to honestly express anything you feel emotionally or otherwise - true enough - various manifestations of creativity and the exposure of emotion can cause all kinds of ripples in these pages - but to my mind if you let your heart lead you - then there is nothing wrong with any way of describing anything. We are in a deficit of emotional
The master wordsmiths that are on these pages do much to add to our dimensions here - but it is also the contributions of the less prolific - those who speak from within - regardless of the grammatical perfection, rhyme and meter, phrasing or poetic content - expression alone and the desire to impart a message to something else - communication between each other - and the desire to hear a message in return - that is an incredible component of humanity... and all styles welcome here.
No fear of flaming - issues alone - even disenting ones (or weird ones like JD
) Are always welcome...
And as for being a "man of words" - I seem to recall a certain incredibly well-written, complete and very readable book on the style of Uechi-ryu that I've read recently... I thought you knew the author?
Lori, Man's imagination is not dead. Sometimes it is just soo difficult to pick the exact words in the proper sequence so they will be properly understood without ambiguity. If I was to say that a man's imagination becomes stimulated by the sounds of a woman in the kitchen, then I would get into trouble real fast so I won't say that, or that the mental vision of a lifetime partner in whatever is simply too mundane unless crafted by a master wordsmith such as Van who could transform them into poetry to make every woman's heart melt.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Allen - you wouldn't get into trouble with me by that description - of liking the sound of a woman in the kitchen. Some women love to cook for their man - some for themselves - some hate to cook. That's not the point. But if a man-woman pair enjoys that exchange then it is beautiful and may well be one man's description of his woman - beautiful, poetic to the object of his affection, and nothing wrong with it.
And you do not have to be a wordsmith to honestly express anything you feel emotionally or otherwise - true enough - various manifestations of creativity and the exposure of emotion can cause all kinds of ripples in these pages - but to my mind if you let your heart lead you - then there is nothing wrong with any way of describing anything. We are in a deficit of emotional
The master wordsmiths that are on these pages do much to add to our dimensions here - but it is also the contributions of the less prolific - those who speak from within - regardless of the grammatical perfection, rhyme and meter, phrasing or poetic content - expression alone and the desire to impart a message to something else - communication between each other - and the desire to hear a message in return - that is an incredible component of humanity... and all styles welcome here.
No fear of flaming - issues alone - even disenting ones (or weird ones like JD
) Are always welcome...And as for being a "man of words" - I seem to recall a certain incredibly well-written, complete and very readable book on the style of Uechi-ryu that I've read recently... I thought you knew the author?
A woman
If I had posted this topic on the Italian forum, we would have had at least one hundred replies due to the "emotional component" involved. Women would jump at the chance of debating this subject.
Is it because European women are more comfortable in their gender role than Anglosaxon women? Same for men!
Let's take the woman, for example: before tackling the questions posed, it is helpful to understand the basic difference between a man and a woman! Is there one [ one of many ?] Understanding and not DENYING your emotional "programming" is the first step to a more functional physical and sentimental being, more aware of how you must navigate this valley of tears.
How about this one:
" A woman’s whole life is a history of the affections. The heart is her world: it is there her ambition strives for empire; it is there her avarice seeks for hidden treasures. She sends forth her sympathies on adventure; she embarks her whole soul on the traffic of affection; and if shipwrecked, her case is hopeless—for it is a bankruptcy of the heart.
Washington Irving (1783–1859), U.S. author. The Sketch-Book,“The Broken Heart” (1819–20).
Do we agree or disagree? And then what??
------------------
Van Canna
Is it because European women are more comfortable in their gender role than Anglosaxon women? Same for men!
Let's take the woman, for example: before tackling the questions posed, it is helpful to understand the basic difference between a man and a woman! Is there one [ one of many ?] Understanding and not DENYING your emotional "programming" is the first step to a more functional physical and sentimental being, more aware of how you must navigate this valley of tears.
How about this one:
" A woman’s whole life is a history of the affections. The heart is her world: it is there her ambition strives for empire; it is there her avarice seeks for hidden treasures. She sends forth her sympathies on adventure; she embarks her whole soul on the traffic of affection; and if shipwrecked, her case is hopeless—for it is a bankruptcy of the heart.
Washington Irving (1783–1859), U.S. author. The Sketch-Book,“The Broken Heart” (1819–20).
Do we agree or disagree? And then what??
------------------
Van Canna
-
Allen M.
A woman
We have one purpose in life, and that is to die. Many chose to pass on that heritage. For them, it becomes be born, make babies, raise them, grow old, then die.
We make up everyhing else in between. Depending where one is on the timeline of the babymaking chain determines how man "views" woman. I can't answer the reciprocal of that.
We make up everyhing else in between. Depending where one is on the timeline of the babymaking chain determines how man "views" woman. I can't answer the reciprocal of that.
-
Scott Danziger
- Posts: 929
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Long Island
- Contact:
A woman
Maybe European men still put women on a pedestal and marval at her beauty. They pour emotion and poetry over her. They revere a woman for what she brings to a family, the way she nurtures her young, and stands by her man.
In America, groups like NOW kinda killed all that. That and lawyers. Let me consult with Sexual Harrassment Panda before I say anything about a women that might get me sued.
What's an American male to do? One minute it's... "I can hold my own door - I don't need a man" or "I'm not some kind of sexual object, pig!" to "How come you don't bring me flowers anymore" or during some chick flick... "Why can't you do something like that for me".
Though the lyrics to the above song are true, MY 'definition' remains as originally stated - CONFUSING".
I could rant and probably do a comedy routine on the subject but I don't have the time and I don't think there is enough web space. Seriously... I think the way an American man defines a woman today would be drastically different from 30-40 years ago. At least, that's the way he would publicly express that.
Unless he was trying to impress a particular woman for a particular reason. Think about this in a French accent...
"Oooh mon cheri (I can't spell in french bear with me), you are like a beautiful flower blooming on a warm spring day when zee birds sing you sweet songs of your lovliness. Comm wiz me... I want to espress my love for you, here, under zee morning sun. When I see you smile, it iz like zair iz no one else in zee world. Just you and I. I am zo amazed God himself has let you come to Earth and allow me to not only gaze upon you, but has also allowed me to hold you in my arms. If I waz to die right now, I would die a happy man."
Scott
In America, groups like NOW kinda killed all that. That and lawyers. Let me consult with Sexual Harrassment Panda before I say anything about a women that might get me sued.
What's an American male to do? One minute it's... "I can hold my own door - I don't need a man" or "I'm not some kind of sexual object, pig!" to "How come you don't bring me flowers anymore" or during some chick flick... "Why can't you do something like that for me".
Though the lyrics to the above song are true, MY 'definition' remains as originally stated - CONFUSING".
I could rant and probably do a comedy routine on the subject but I don't have the time and I don't think there is enough web space. Seriously... I think the way an American man defines a woman today would be drastically different from 30-40 years ago. At least, that's the way he would publicly express that.
Unless he was trying to impress a particular woman for a particular reason. Think about this in a French accent...
"Oooh mon cheri (I can't spell in french bear with me), you are like a beautiful flower blooming on a warm spring day when zee birds sing you sweet songs of your lovliness. Comm wiz me... I want to espress my love for you, here, under zee morning sun. When I see you smile, it iz like zair iz no one else in zee world. Just you and I. I am zo amazed God himself has let you come to Earth and allow me to not only gaze upon you, but has also allowed me to hold you in my arms. If I waz to die right now, I would die a happy man."
Scott
A woman
1) What defines a “woman” in the eyes of men?"
Curves, looks, attitude, sexual availability.
2) What is the definition of a “woman” as perceived by Anglo-Saxons v. Latin/European men?
That has me stumped, but my best guess is that
a) Anglo-Saxons divide the woman into being either mother, sister, wife or love-toy
b) Latin/European men can on average see more of a blend, or at least are not as drastic in their dividing of women into being either good or bad, or should I say, asexual ("good") and sexual ("bad")
3) "What defines a “woman” in the eyes of American women v. Latin/European women? "
I wish I knew. My best guess there is the American woman sees herself as an independent who can chose a traditional role or become a career person, while Latin/European women tend to lean to more traditional roles, yet have a firmer sense of their womanhood and more self-confidence.
Nobody wants to comment too much on this topic because nobody wants to be attacked!
Here is something I find interesting: I can write mushy, desperate sounding words, wrapped them in a neat-looking format, call it poetry, and I am loved for it. Yet, if I were to speak those same words to a woman out loud, I'd be called a wimp or a stalker.
Believe me when I tell you that I think many men have less fear of ducking a machete' than they do of confronting the male-female dynamic. And, many women put more energy into learning how to fight off a perceived attack than they do trying to make their relationship work with their man without trying to change HIM.
Most problems I see in Black American male-female relationships have to do with
1) women picking men who are "cool" instead of men who are "responsible"
2) men who are "responsible" being perceived as dull, or actually are dull and no fun to be with. Too much extremist leanings instead of being well rounded
3) young black men being told that they are now 95% percent of The Problem when really they are only 50% of it
4) naive young black men believing they actually ARE 95% of The Problem instead of learning how to evaluate how to choose a suitable mate
5) couples trying to keep up with the perceived status of what the mainstream is suppposed to have instead of living within their means (actually, that's EVERYBODY, white, black, red or whatever)
6) the small segment who think that interracial dating is evil, when really, an interracial union is just another realationship that can screw up because it has two human beings in it
7) the small segment who think that interracial dating is preferable, when really, it is just another relationship that can screw up because it has two human beings in it
I bet you that we would have an easier time trying to find five thousand ways to perform nerve strikes with a toothpick than we will trying to get men and women to honestly look at themselves and each other and ask "Why???"
Cecil http://www.geocities.com/creativebrother/ceciltheme.html
Curves, looks, attitude, sexual availability.
2) What is the definition of a “woman” as perceived by Anglo-Saxons v. Latin/European men?
That has me stumped, but my best guess is that
a) Anglo-Saxons divide the woman into being either mother, sister, wife or love-toy
b) Latin/European men can on average see more of a blend, or at least are not as drastic in their dividing of women into being either good or bad, or should I say, asexual ("good") and sexual ("bad")
3) "What defines a “woman” in the eyes of American women v. Latin/European women? "
I wish I knew. My best guess there is the American woman sees herself as an independent who can chose a traditional role or become a career person, while Latin/European women tend to lean to more traditional roles, yet have a firmer sense of their womanhood and more self-confidence.
Nobody wants to comment too much on this topic because nobody wants to be attacked!
Here is something I find interesting: I can write mushy, desperate sounding words, wrapped them in a neat-looking format, call it poetry, and I am loved for it. Yet, if I were to speak those same words to a woman out loud, I'd be called a wimp or a stalker.
Believe me when I tell you that I think many men have less fear of ducking a machete' than they do of confronting the male-female dynamic. And, many women put more energy into learning how to fight off a perceived attack than they do trying to make their relationship work with their man without trying to change HIM.
Most problems I see in Black American male-female relationships have to do with
1) women picking men who are "cool" instead of men who are "responsible"
2) men who are "responsible" being perceived as dull, or actually are dull and no fun to be with. Too much extremist leanings instead of being well rounded
3) young black men being told that they are now 95% percent of The Problem when really they are only 50% of it
4) naive young black men believing they actually ARE 95% of The Problem instead of learning how to evaluate how to choose a suitable mate
5) couples trying to keep up with the perceived status of what the mainstream is suppposed to have instead of living within their means (actually, that's EVERYBODY, white, black, red or whatever)
6) the small segment who think that interracial dating is evil, when really, an interracial union is just another realationship that can screw up because it has two human beings in it
7) the small segment who think that interracial dating is preferable, when really, it is just another relationship that can screw up because it has two human beings in it
I bet you that we would have an easier time trying to find five thousand ways to perform nerve strikes with a toothpick than we will trying to get men and women to honestly look at themselves and each other and ask "Why???"
Cecil http://www.geocities.com/creativebrother/ceciltheme.html
A woman
The sexual harrassment dilema has made its way to college campuses?
Thank goodness I am out of school now.
It is almost enough to make me think that single nen must be afraid to date, what with all the possibilities of punishment lurking around the corner for a well meaning guy who says the wrong thing.
I'm hoping that these are just the growing pains towards a better future.
Cecil http://www.geocities.com/creativebrother/lovepoems.html
Thank goodness I am out of school now.
It is almost enough to make me think that single nen must be afraid to date, what with all the possibilities of punishment lurking around the corner for a well meaning guy who says the wrong thing.
I'm hoping that these are just the growing pains towards a better future.
Cecil http://www.geocities.com/creativebrother/lovepoems.html
