ATTN:
Joyce Laituri
Member
Posts: 63
From: Golden, CO USA
Registered: May 99
posted 01-05-2001 05:14 PM
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There are still a few open spots for the January MBC classes being offered at SFO. I realize most of you live far, far away but for anyone who's interested here it is….
MBC Program Basics
Instructor: Michael Janich (professional knife expert, author and instructor)
Where: Spyderco Factory Outlet 4564 N. Hwy. 93 Golden, Colorado 80403
When: January 20, 2001 9am-5pm: Civilian MBC Level 1 Course
January 21, 2001 9am-5pm: Law Enforcement MBC Level 1 Course
*Both sessions consist of an eight-hour block of instruction and hands-on training. The Law Enforcement class is for LEO personnel only. To ensure individual attention, class size and enrollment will be limited.
Cost: $125.00. This includes: Continental Breakfast, lunch and trainer knife.
Curriculum Includes: Tactical folding knife carry and deployment, martial knife grips, cutting and thrusting methods, use of natural body methods in conjunction with the knife, one-hand opening techniques, angles of attack, defensive responses, reflex training drills, and the fundamentals of Janichs' "Zone Defense" system.
To Register: call Angela or Patty at SFO 800-828-1925 or 303-279-8613
If any of you can get to Golden, Colorado, on 1/20/01, I would strongly suggest that you consider this offering. Janich is a very well known prectitioner of knife arts and Spyderco has always been famous for its products.
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Walk in the Light, Hugh
hughf_us@yahoo.com
Spyderco offering martial bladecraft class
Moderator: Available
Spyderco offering martial bladecraft class
I think Sal Glesser, Spyderco CEO, is becoming a little less hesitant about acknowledging the "self-defense" capabilities of his line of edged tools. The Martial Blade Craft (MBC) line, the drones, and now the public offering of MBC training at Spyderco are a reflections of that.
As recent as two years ago you would have not thought of nor would Sal publicly acknowledge his interest and training in MBC. Sal is a repeat Riddler. At Blade/Atlanta I personally watched him deployed his daily carry with the alacrity that many of us can be envious of. Yet, a little after Blade I heard a rumor that MBC training was starting up at SFO and asked him at Bladeforums about it. And, he pretty much demurred that it was low key.
Well, I personally am glad Spyderco is now making some statements by their actions about the right to self-defense.
david
As recent as two years ago you would have not thought of nor would Sal publicly acknowledge his interest and training in MBC. Sal is a repeat Riddler. At Blade/Atlanta I personally watched him deployed his daily carry with the alacrity that many of us can be envious of. Yet, a little after Blade I heard a rumor that MBC training was starting up at SFO and asked him at Bladeforums about it. And, he pretty much demurred that it was low key.
Well, I personally am glad Spyderco is now making some statements by their actions about the right to self-defense.
david
Spyderco offering martial bladecraft class
I have just bought a Gunting, but for purposes other than defense. I will be posting my impressions on this in the Spyderco Forum on BladeForums.com, but I am very aware of the original intent of the knife. Spyderco has now introduced two recent knives as dedicated defense weapons, the Gunting and the James A. Keating designed Chinook with its distinct false edge a la the Bowie that Keating so loves for the back cut. Spyderco has always had defensive knives such as the Civilian and the Matriarch, but they have played them down or restricted their sales to military and police only, but these new ones are generally available, except that some brick and mortar dealers, Chesapeake Knife & Tool for one, do not plan to carry the Gunting as they see it as incompatible with their clientel(!). They sell POS tothy knives to gang bangers, but won't sell a very high end and expensive martial bladecraft knife like the Gunting. As a certain Vulcan Executive Officer was wont to say, "Fascinating."
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Walk in the Light, Hugh
hughf_us@yahoo.com
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Walk in the Light, Hugh
hughf_us@yahoo.com
Spyderco offering martial bladecraft class
Hi Hugh,
Can you post photos of the knives you mention?
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Van Canna
Can you post photos of the knives you mention?
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Van Canna
Spyderco offering martial bladecraft class
Van:
I don't have pix of either - maybe I'll find links to them later on - but let me describe the two knives, for they have very different philosophies behind them.
Keating's Chinook knife is essentially a miniaturized folding Bowie, complete with back edge, for the very reason Hugh described: back cuts. It is is lethal force, pure and simple, compatible with Western knife and fencing methods (although I suspect it is not incompatible with Kali, Escrima, Arnis, etc. - better to get opinions from Raffi or David on that).
Bram Frank's Gunting id designed to be an escalator of force. It is not a knife - it is an impact tool with a blade.
Read that again: an impact tool with a blade.
It was deliberately designed essentially to be a short stick/yawara/kubotan, with a blunt protrusion between your fingers that can be used to deliver blows to kyusho points. If it becomes necessary to escalate to a higher level of force, it opens into a blade less than 4" long (so as to be legally carried virtually everywhere a knife would be allowed in the U.S.), and it has a very good locking system.
Bram believes in biomechanical cutting, to deprive the opponent of the use of his bodily weapons by cutting their hydraulics and mechanics, as opposed to going for the kill every time when it might not be warranted. The Gunting was designed with that purpose.
student
I don't have pix of either - maybe I'll find links to them later on - but let me describe the two knives, for they have very different philosophies behind them.
Keating's Chinook knife is essentially a miniaturized folding Bowie, complete with back edge, for the very reason Hugh described: back cuts. It is is lethal force, pure and simple, compatible with Western knife and fencing methods (although I suspect it is not incompatible with Kali, Escrima, Arnis, etc. - better to get opinions from Raffi or David on that).
Bram Frank's Gunting id designed to be an escalator of force. It is not a knife - it is an impact tool with a blade.
Read that again: an impact tool with a blade.
It was deliberately designed essentially to be a short stick/yawara/kubotan, with a blunt protrusion between your fingers that can be used to deliver blows to kyusho points. If it becomes necessary to escalate to a higher level of force, it opens into a blade less than 4" long (so as to be legally carried virtually everywhere a knife would be allowed in the U.S.), and it has a very good locking system.
Bram believes in biomechanical cutting, to deprive the opponent of the use of his bodily weapons by cutting their hydraulics and mechanics, as opposed to going for the kill every time when it might not be warranted. The Gunting was designed with that purpose.
student
Spyderco offering martial bladecraft class
Here's a link to the Knifecenter's Spyderco Page where the Chinook and Gunting, Civilian, among others can be found:
http://knifecenter.com/knifecenter/spyderc/
Here's a picture of what the chinook can do with a "backcut" despite the lack of a sharpened top swedge on thick leather jacket. The upswept point leads the way in penetrating and ripping.
david
http://knifecenter.com/knifecenter/spyderc/
Here's a picture of what the chinook can do with a "backcut" despite the lack of a sharpened top swedge on thick leather jacket. The upswept point leads the way in penetrating and ripping.
david
Spyderco offering martial bladecraft class
For some damned reason, the computer at home won't let me go back and forth to the knifecenter site and bring specific addresses over here. But David's address to the Spyderco page at Knifecenter is the best place to look at them. However, finding a Gunting may take some doing. Bram's email is arnisman@aol.com and he has them as well as the instruction tapes in their use and the "red knife" trainers. I found it interesting that Knifecenter does not mention either the Gunting or the Chinook as martial bladecraft knives, but treats them as run of the mill knives. Hmmmm.
The Civilian is there, also, but not the Matriarch, if I remember. This knife is a slightly downsized Civilian blade on the molded Zytel hilt that the Endura and Delica use, thereby reducing the cost significantly. They were originally intended for sale in South Africa for use by women to protect themselves in the rape epidemic that they are having, but they expanded sales to Israel and then to Europe. Sal Glesser made a very limited and restricted offer of them to BladeForum participants and now, they are available in this country only to law enforcement personnel or the military. There has been much debate with him over this issue over on BladeForums, but he refuses to give in, as he is very afraid that the lower price will result in the knife becoming popular with the gang bangers on the streets and he is most aware that the whole industry is walking a chalk line with many out to ban knife carry all together, just as they are banning guns. England has already done this, in effect, and the control freaks in our various levels of government are looking longingly at them. If you have a friend in the police or military, however........
If you are really serious about a self defense knife and want what many consider to be the best self defense folder, bar none, then go to www.bladeforums.com and click on 1stopknifeshop.com and take a look at the REKAT Sifu. This is one huge folding knife, built like an M1A1 tank and designed to be the largest folder on the market that may be carried legally in California and Texas. The blade is some 4.5 inches long and the REKAT rolling lock is just about the strongest thing this side of a fixed blade knife. Jim March at BladeForums is a real fan of monster folders and was one of the main ones pushing REKAT into making this knife. If you look around in the tactical forums over there, he has some interesting observations on the Sifu. Look also at the REKAT forum in the Manufacturers section.
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Walk in the Light, Hugh
hughf_us@yahoo.com
[This message has been edited by Hugh (edited January 09, 2001).]
The Civilian is there, also, but not the Matriarch, if I remember. This knife is a slightly downsized Civilian blade on the molded Zytel hilt that the Endura and Delica use, thereby reducing the cost significantly. They were originally intended for sale in South Africa for use by women to protect themselves in the rape epidemic that they are having, but they expanded sales to Israel and then to Europe. Sal Glesser made a very limited and restricted offer of them to BladeForum participants and now, they are available in this country only to law enforcement personnel or the military. There has been much debate with him over this issue over on BladeForums, but he refuses to give in, as he is very afraid that the lower price will result in the knife becoming popular with the gang bangers on the streets and he is most aware that the whole industry is walking a chalk line with many out to ban knife carry all together, just as they are banning guns. England has already done this, in effect, and the control freaks in our various levels of government are looking longingly at them. If you have a friend in the police or military, however........
If you are really serious about a self defense knife and want what many consider to be the best self defense folder, bar none, then go to www.bladeforums.com and click on 1stopknifeshop.com and take a look at the REKAT Sifu. This is one huge folding knife, built like an M1A1 tank and designed to be the largest folder on the market that may be carried legally in California and Texas. The blade is some 4.5 inches long and the REKAT rolling lock is just about the strongest thing this side of a fixed blade knife. Jim March at BladeForums is a real fan of monster folders and was one of the main ones pushing REKAT into making this knife. If you look around in the tactical forums over there, he has some interesting observations on the Sifu. Look also at the REKAT forum in the Manufacturers section.
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Walk in the Light, Hugh
hughf_us@yahoo.com
[This message has been edited by Hugh (edited January 09, 2001).]
