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What do you think about gals doing the half push-ups -- where they're on the soft part of their knees? A good idea until they build up strength or will it limit their advancement? Is it better to have someone do half push ups until they can build up the arm strength? Or do full push-ups but less or not as low?

I've seen a lot of people try and keep up with the count so that they loose the form (men and women). Hence they either let their belly sag adding pressure to their back or they arch their backs. Is it more important to keep up with the count (to push yourself harder and faster) or go at your own pace and make sure you're doing it correctly?

Push ups are not the ideal excersise as Collen pointed out many do it wrong or try to keep up with a pace. Load bearing excersises should be controlled to prevent injuries and having benefit from the excersise. I often lead the class in push ups but do them at the pace of the "weakest link" and all still gain as form is critical. They can be easily replaced with lets say a couple of bench presses once a week. I suggest full push ups but less. I`m slowly eliminating push ups from class as the benifets seem questionable.

It's also in how you push.
This little routine below has proven to be HIGHLY effective for me.

The three different types of push ups
1) make a triangle with your hands (like you use to "set" a volleyball) and put it at the bottom of your sternum.

2) put your hands under your shoulders and keep your elbows near your torso.

3) move your hands out from your shoulders and point your elbows away from your torso.

I find that position #1 works the lower pecs, lats & traps. Position #2 works the triceps & upper pecs. Position #3 works the biceps & lats & upper pecs.

I'm not to 100 yet, but even doing them on my knees using this method has improved the number of "regular" off the knees pushups I can do.
Dana
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Working towards 100+ Pushups

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From: shourc@PHSSMPC2.uucp (Robert C. Shouse)
Subject: More than 100 push-ups
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 20:30:06 GMT

DISCLAIMER: Below are the things I have practiced and the results
I've achieved. The same results/effects will not necessarily be
achieved by anyone practicing the same way. No physical responsibility
is assumed for anyone attempting this routine.

From past experience with martial arts one way to increase the amount
of push-ups you can do is by doing partials while alternating with
different types of push-ups. This routine assumes that you are able
to do 30 complete push-ups with out resting. By partials I mean
restricting the range of motion to just under 1/2 of a complete rep.
Always touch the floor with your chest (when possible) and come up
almost half-way then back down. A sample routine would look like this:

Week 1 & 2 Every other day
POSITION #1
Triangle push-ups (you should touch your thumbs to your xiphoid process
(lightly!) when trying to touch your chest to the ground)
5 partials
5 complete
7 partials
7 complete
rest 90 seconds

POSITION #2
Move hands to shoulder length apart (the tips of your fingers should be
aligned with the tops of your shoulders)

5 partials
5 complete
7 partials
7 complete
rest 90 seconds

POSITION #3
Move your hands out until, during mid rep, your upper arms will be
perpendicular to your forearms. The hands should remain in the same
position relative to the shoulders (ie move them "out" in a straight
line)

5 partials
5 complete
7 partials
7 complete

Week 3 2 days on, 1 off; 2 on, 1 off; 1 on
POSITION #1
Until failure

Week 4 & 5 1 on, 2 off; 2 on, 1 off; 1 on, 2 off; 1 on, 2 off; 1 on, 1 off
POSITION #1
7 partials
7 complete
12 partials
12 complete
rest 120 seconds

POSITION #2
7 partials
7 complete
12 partials
12 complete
rest 120 seconds

POSITION #3
7 partials
7 complete
12 partials
12 complete

Week 6 2 on, 1 off; 2 on, 1 off; 1 on
POSITION #1
Until failure
rest 240 seconds

POSITION #2
Until failure

Week 7 & 8 1 off, 1 on; 2 off, 1 on; 1 off, 1 on; 2 off, 2 on; 1 off, 1 on;
1 off
POSITION #1
15 partials
15 complete
rest 90 seconds
40 complete
rest 240 seconds

POSITION #2
15 partials
15 complete
rest 90 seconds
40 complete
rest 240 seconds

POSITION #3
15 partials
15 complete
rest 90 seconds
40 complete
rest 240 seconds

Week 9 2 on, 1 off; 2 on, 1 off; 1 on
POSITION #1
Until failure
rest 240 seconds

POSITION #2
Until failure
rest 240 seconds

POSITION #3
Until failure
rest 240 seconds

Week 10 1 off, 1 on; 2 off, 1 on; 1 off, 1 on
POSITION #2
100 complete

Do 100 push-ups in POSITION #2 at least twice a week for maintenance.

[This message has been edited by Dana Sheets (edited May 02, 2002).]

From my personal experience...

when I started training I could not do one proper push-up. I was forced to struggle to do one evey class, every time push-ups were called. In the three years it took me to get my brown belt, I never did one proper push-up. But as a brown belt I could choose any spot on the floor I wanted for the exercise part so I chose to stand in the back (near a window) where I could cheat the push-ups by doing them from my knees, which I could do with good form and fullsets. Within 6 months of kneesies I could do a set of ten regular push-ups with good form so I switched over.


Now, as a teacher, I let people work to success at any level they can and then I encourage them to explore the next level periodically...and this works. I've had ladies who had to do push-ups against a wall, then the back of a couch before they could do one horizontal.

Why make someone struggle to do what they can't do?

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The Fighting Old Man

I also could not do even one proper push-up when I began training. I had taken many years of Yoga training in my youth though, and knew well the importance of proper alignment and position to avoid getting hurt and gain the benefit of the exercise. The sensei always just told me to do the best I could and I'd get stronger and better at it over time and he was right. After at least a year of 'girlie' push-ups I did my first 'real' push-up of my entire life. It's funny though, that even the 'girlie' ones were nearly impossible at first and sure seemed 'real' enough to me at the time. I don't think any woman or girl I know in our circle of acquaintances can actually do a 'proper' guy-style push-up other than my 10 year old daughter who has been doing them since she started MA training at age 7, and the sensei's wife , who is also a Black Belt. In my opinion, women should be taught to work up to push-ups over time the way I did, and not be made to feel that doing them is a requirement for the study of a Martial Art. If it was, I certainly would never have considered signing up in the first place. The thought that I could have missed out on everything I have done since I began training because of not being able to do a certain type of push-up is a very sobering thought. Though I just realized that such a requirement would make an extremely effective 'woman repellant' for some dojos that have 'certain standards' to uphold, and all I can say is that I'm glad I was given the chance to learn to succeed in my MA goals.

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Respectfully, _(_)_ Tune

Hi! I'm Luchie Ling and here's my take on this:Women can do regular pushups when strong;women can do back-of-the-wrist pushups(aikido style) as well; and women can do the Hindu pushup which is a good alternative to regular ones. Keep on pushing! Love, Luchie

The 100 push ups source has an updated link:
http://www.impulseadventure.com/weights/100push.html

Also - something which I did not mention in this thread the first time is that if you are going to do them "on your knees" you're not actually supposed to be on your knees at all.

Ideally your upper body is in pushup position - but to save your knees, tuck your heels up by your hindquarters which will roll your weight onto upper thighs. In this manner you can do them on hard surfaces with no pain.

Presently I'm also doing these which in somebody's jargon are known as "dive bombers". I've also heared them called "oh ahs" and in chinese qigong it has been called a number of things but popularly - prone tiger pounces on his prey
http://www.trainforstrength.com/ex-1.shtml


http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art48154.asp



The further apart your feet are the easier they are to do. Also, eventually, the elbows should be close to the body. And - I'm doing them on my fingertips - which means the pad of the first joint on the finger. So I'm not putting my weight on the ends of my bones. (ouch). I'm doing them like this:


To help out at the beginning you can put a tennis ball or a wadded up t-shirt under your palms to offer extra support. You should have a feeling of your pulling up from the floor. I'm doing this right now for hand strength.

If you've never done these types of pushups before - you really should talk with someone first so that you don't hurt yourself. One the first day I could 1 of these with good form and my fingers were not very happy with me. I hadn't injured them but they were just done after one - and my feet were as far apart as I could put them. That was in mid-January. Now, I'm up to 14 on a good day, 10 on a bad day.

_________________
Did you show compassion today?

great thread and thanks for the links Dana ....I have this guys DVD'S
http://www.mattfurey.com/

I actually got them cheap of evilbay .he is very into pushups and squats he calls his pushups "Hindu pushups" and they are very similar to divebombers ............I could never do pushups until I started using weights. The reason I think is that going from zero pushups to even 5 is very difficult, whereas if you lift weights you can vary it and add a little weight each time ( you would do the bench press for pushups )........at one time I could do 84 pushups outright.but I trained for weeks to do that, now I'd struggle to do 30 .but that link has rekindled my passion for going for the magic 100.so I'm going to aim for that

I've found that "real" (proper) pushups tend to hurt my lower back. Must be all that wait I carry in the buttox area

Try making sure that you've got your stomach muscles and obliques and glutes firmly contracted - those are all the muscles that can help support the back.


Also - to build up the back try doing planks or bridges


From the above posture you can hold static - start with 30 seconds and move up to 2 minutes. Also you can pick up an arm or a leg while keeping the hips square to the ground.

Those of us who spend too much time sitting in office chairs (like me) often end up with lower backs that are weaker than those of people who stand all day.

_________________
Did you show compassion today?

Are you guys doing pushups DURING Karate class? (I hope not!)

Class time is so valuable, I can't imagine wasting it on something you can do in your own living room -- it would take up a lot of learning-time in class.

Just asking: I stumbled onto this thread.

~N~

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The music spoke to me. I felt compelled to answer.

I do pushups and core work at the end of class when everyone is nice and tired to build spirit, to build the body, and to end on a group exercise. I find it works well to help remind students to continue to do this stuff on their own along with their other training when they're not on the dojo floor.

Part of the reason is that I believe that you can't just tell peopel to do stuff like pushups and sit-ups and core work. For peopel who aren't used to doing basic strength training stuff you need to model it for them and show them how to do it.

Also, since we train in the health club folks can't always be on the dojo floor before and after class and I want to make sure folks know that these other supplementary exercises are an important part of their training.

Again - to show it, because just saying it doesn't work.
-Dana

_________________
Did you show compassion today?

That makes sense. It sounds like a good approach.
I've done "sweat classes" too, and there definitely is a class spirit that motivates everyone to give their best, and you get caught up in it.

Sensei Louis Hopper led the most memorable ones, for me.

~N~

_________________
The music spoke to me. I felt compelled to answer.