Trapping

[Sensei Kunz]

What is your opinion to Trapping during street combat. Will it work all the time? Or will we limited because of the uncertaincies of non-fighting or street fighting experience of our attacker? We know it works with other styles of the arts in sparring and full contact, but what about the street?

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Sensei Kunz
Jeet Kune Do
Instructor
http://selfdefenseforyou.com

[raulf7]

When I was young I had a lot of street fights and I always sought to strike them down as quick as I could by using techniques that I could launch from the longest possible distance. I never wanted to get close, so I never actually got around to grappling a real opponent and I am not sure that I would

[Sensei Kunz]

That is highly unusual. I have found that 70% of street confrontations, my opponents would try and grap me at some point during the fight. Street fighters with or without experience feel they must get close enough, either by rushing or by hitting and then grabing me. I think it is the mentality of most non-experienced fighters to get close enough to grap and wrestle. Basically, that's what most of us did when we were young. Even the majority of playing ended in wrestling and making the other one say uncle. LOL!

I know that the majority of my opponents in the street that were larger, always thought that they could contro me by their sized and weight. Basically, they felt as thogu they could get me to the ground and then sit on me to pound my face. Of course, we know that is what fighting was about in High School.

If my opponent had any type of martial art experience, then they would stay on their feet. Because they were conditioned for it during their training. Most arts are teaching fighting by standing only. Only a few teach grappling techniques.



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Sensei Kunz
Jeet Kune Do
Instructor
http://selfdefenseforyou.com

[BRAM]

Hey Guys..sorry I was away ...But Im back..
Trapping is a sensitive subject..Those of us that train in trapping seem to feel that we should be able to pull it off real time.
Those thsat don't trap will have every reason it shouldn't work or how they'll make it fail.
Its a double edge sword..of course..looking for a trap is like looking for a lock..Its not going to happen..
Since a lot of people, once engaged in a combative situation check, grab etc trapping off of contact generally works in some form..no it might not be as we learned with that cultured response..but it usually works ..even if only a moment in time..
If your trapping is just that trapping..big trouble..
If your trapping is a by product of trying to blow through the BG or hit the BG it works better..

I find that trapping has a more positive response if I've hit or intercepted something along thew way..
since I'm a tool user I truly believe in "defanging the snake" attacking the limbs or objects in my path enroute to trapping or catching..
DTL..
Destroy Trap n Lock

Destroy..do damage first..
Trsap..traps are easier to pul off after damage..
Lock..immobilize the trap.again easier after the initial destruction..

I disagree about the grappling..Wrestling, grappling is almost instinctive..those WITH experience do it rather well and if you think grapplers are those with little experience..that type of thinking could lead to big trouble.
Doing Ride arounds with agents on the Border I saw lots of confrontations..all ended up grappling , be it standing or on the ground or bboth or combinations of positions INCLUDING using impact tools..( yes in the grappling mix..)
Yes..puches and kicks thrown, tools used and grappling..
Many grapplers and non grapplers are learning trapping moves whiule grappling..Hell Gracie Ju Jitsu and the like seems like trapping & counter trapping on the ground..

OK/I guess Trapping works..ROFL..

Be safe!!

[aiki]

I am 5'2", 130 pounds. I have found trapping does work for me. An attacker starts to attack, I shuffle in and pressing my left forearm against his and against his body, I then strike with my right. I may then drop my right to trap his forearm and then my left does some damage. I also, lock his leg with mind, trapping it. The type of trapping I do is to stop him for a moment, as I deliver a strike, then I go from there with more strikes and/or joint locks and take down. Your in Martial Arts, Bob, 5th degree Black Belt, Aikikenjitsu

[Uechij]

Quote:
"Since a lot of people, once engaged in a combative situation check, grab etc trapping off of contact generally works in some form..no it might not be as we learned with that cultured response..but it usually works ..even if only a moment in time.."

I agree. I think that the drills we practice during training help us to feel the fight instead of trying see it, as our sense of feeling is much stronger then sight. This concept really comes into play when you are on the receiving end of an unexpected blitz, you instinctivly blink or are grabbed and your line of sight is forced away from the oncoming attack. At this point, all you have left is the touch.

Quote:
"I disagree about the grappling..Wrestling, grappling is almost instinctive..those WITH experience do it rather well and if you think grapplers are those with little experience..that type of thinking could lead to big trouble."

I also agree with this statement as well. I would like to add that I have seen this mistake made by some very good grapplers\wrestlers as well. I have so many times seen untrained naturals suprise the trained. I could literaly count the lessons in ground technique I've had on the fingers of my two hands. However, I have held my own against some pretty formidable trained wrestlers\grapplers. I attribute this to the feeling senses developed through trapping exercises.

Sensei Kunz, Thank you for the kind words on the Personality vs. System post, I always enjoy reading and contemplating your thoughts, I promise though, no interrogations



[This message has been edited by Uechij (edited February 28, 2002).]

[Sensei Kunz]

I appreciate it. Over the years I have received some questions. I had hoped that my website would expell many questions. It only works if it is read though! LOL!

Now, you are absolutely right about the touch compared to sight. I teach my students after nine months of training to feel rather than visulize, especially in close quater combat.

Trapping does work , only if practiced and practiced. Many martial artist today, same as old days, do not adhere to the training that is required to be effective in the arts. the ones that excel in the arts and that are superior are the ones that train alomost daily. I know it is hard for many people, do to family commitments, work and responsiblilities. They cannot be avoided. I believe the ones that have the advantage are the young students who do have the time in the beginning to practice almost daily until they have been called to life expectations! LOL.

I have been enjoying conversing with you and hope to do so in the future.

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Sensei Kunz
Jeet Kune Do
Instructor
http://selfdefenseforyou.com

[BRAM]

thanks guys for some great responses!!!
Sharing through the forums allows us all to grow!..
thanks again!!!

[Dan Anderson]

My two cents worth, here. I've found that trapping also takes in clinching, besides the usual Filipino trapping techniques. In a clinch one cal learn to "read and ride" your opponent's body, like "body chi sao." From there, you can strike, gouge, bite and so forth. An extra added benefit to training in the clinch is when you get there in a hot and fast one, you are comfortable as you've been there already.
Dan Anderson
PS - Hi Bram

[Sensei Kunz]

Sir;

I didn't even think of that! Your right about riding your opponents energy and body when clinching. You can feel every move before it is made by your opponent. It takes much practice and training to completely understand the techniques that is used. I would say more of feel than thought!

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Sensei Kunz
Jeet Kune Do
Instructor
http://selfdefenseforyou.com

[BRAM]

Hmmm Hey Dan..your 2 cents worth is about $5 Dollars of the rest of us..
In case you guys don't recognize Dan hes really Super Dan..fighter extrodinaire...
really no kidding..
Trapping is a generic trm in many ways for eveything from light touch to JKD style in your face trapping...something Sensei Kunz knows about..

I actually do trapping, feeling my opponent by touching him with steel..Trapping & controling with steel is just an extension of the hand...

And as a body guard I have seen it work right in the street..

see ya..welcome Zed...

[Sensei Kunz]

Trapping!

Trapping is an essential in the arts. It gives an advantage over your opponent. Once you have touch, you will never go back. LOL!
It takes extensive training and once achieved has many benefits. It takes you right into controlling your opponent and an entrance into grappling.

The moment I have my hands on my opponent from trapping, I do not let go, unless to strike and then to trap again. Upon a confrontation, a fight should not exceed 3 seconds and this can only be achieved through trapping, grappling and take-downs with a final strike or two.

Just a thought!

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Sensei Kunz
Jeet Kune Do
Instructor http://selfdefenseforyou.com

[This message has been edited by Sensei Kunz (edited March 14, 2002).]

[LeeDarrow]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aiki:
I am 5'2", 130 pounds. I have found trapping does work for me. An attacker starts to attack, I shuffle in and pressing my left forearm against his and against his body, I then strike with my right. I may then drop my right to trap his forearm and then my left does some damage. I also, lock his leg with mind, trapping it. The type of trapping I do is to stop him for a moment, as I deliver a strike, then I go from there with more strikes and/or joint locks and take down. Your in Martial Arts, Bob, 5th degree Black Belt, Aikikenjitsu<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bob-Sensei,

Much as I hate to disagree with a Senior, if you do this tactic to someone with a knife, you will end up looking like chutney.

Trying to do a body press to the off weapon side to a swordsman is one thing, and possibly workable - I know that even at my best, I couldn't have pulled that off - but try it with a knife and you will get cut, several times, perhaps fatally.

Let's look at the situation: You shuffle foreward, attempting to contact his left arm for the press move you describe.

His response might well be to shift left as well and flap-cut your forearm. Needless to say - this HURTS! It is also potentially very dangerous to you because of all the major blood vessles in the forearm.

He presses his advantage and moves to your left again, cutting the arm or hand again. You are now missing one arm for this fight.

Perhaps I misunderstood your opening, but this tactic seems awfully dangerous.

"Close fast on a man with a gun and you might get him. Close fast on a man with a blade and you will get spitted." - R. A. Heinlein, Glory Road.

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
Sandan (retired, Shorin-ryu)