Reality CHECK!!!!!!!What is the Definition of Reality....

[Dave Young]

and I will send you a few facts on OC....Thanks....Dave

[RACastanet]

Hello Henry.

Dave is correct... The most important information on the can is the % of solids. Starting with 2 million shu of something but diluting it to 1% leaves you with 20,000. Still enough to get your intention but not the max available.

I like the Sabre products because they list what is really in the can. SABRE Red is an honest 200,000 shu. Plus, it has the UV die in it so it is a 'two way' product. I have a can of it right here in fact.

Some states restrict the content to 20,000, such as Michigan. If you read the can and it says legal in Michigan it will be 20,000 or less.

Also read the expiration date. A fresh can will be about 4 years out. I demo old cans in self defense classes and as they reach the expiration date the spray really loses its distance.

Another thing to watch is if it is an oil based propellent and carrying agent or if it is non-flammable and water based. Those tend to be weaker. However, that is what the Marines use in training and day to day carry. I was sprayed with it and it was a long day. It is roughly 50,000 shu. Our local PD carries the same product. Since the Marines are regularly in 'expolsive' situations they want a non-flammable product.

I have a can of it right here...Defense Technology/Federal Labs in the MK-4 red can. I have a can of it in yellow as well that is labelled MK-4C. Dave... do you know what the C indicates? The contents appear to be the same as the MK-4.

Dave is the expert on this. I have all of 8 hours of training in OC, half of which was spent recovering. But that is more than most people so I feel ok discussing it. The chief Marine OC trainers have experienced 200,000 OC and say the effect is longer lasting. As for pain, the meter is pegged with either product. they told me they did not use the 200,000 shu products as they take too long to wear off and if you spray someone, they are yours for a long time. Remember, a LEO has to handle the sprayee and perhaps stay with him in the ER all night.

SABRE also makes a 3 way product similar to MACE except that they use military CS tear gas instead of the CN MACE uses. The problem with the OC/CN or CS blends is that they will react with each other in the can at high concentrations so I believe the OC in the can with tear gas is about 10,000 shu.

Sound correct Dave?

Rich

[hthom]

Rich and Dave,

Thank you very much for the information.

Dave, no need to spend time on getting me more info. I just went on both www.sabrered.com and www.foxlabs.net and got all the info I really needed. I should have gone on those sites long time ago. Thanks again.

Henry

[Dave Young]

Henry,

Actually the information you will get frmo the companies ALOT of times is incorrect, especially dealing with Fox Labs..SHU has nothing to do with how consistant and hot their aerosols are. If you want the information you know how to contact me. You are NEVER a bother to me....
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Rich,

Yes in many ways you are totally correct, but again the SHU's have nothing to do with the consistency and heat of the pepper, as far as using cayenne pepper...these peppers are harvested throughout the year and companies chase not only the best crop but the best price, they can use anything from cayenne to jalapeno-chilies-habenaro peppers...etc..in fact there are a few companies I have tested in Japan developing wasabi, and a few companies in Germany working with other types of synthetic compounds for aerosols delivery. Next year might be interesting in regards to the way techology advances.

I am doing a Master OC Instructor Trainer class in Lexington, SC Sept 26-28, 2006 you may want to see if they will send you.

Well take care and be safe!
Dave

[RACastanet]

I have a can of it right here...Defense Technology/Federal Labs in the MK-4 red can. I have a can of it in yellow as well that is labelled MK-4C. Dave... do you know what the C indicates? The contents appear to be the same as the MK-4.

Dave: I asked this question above. Do you know what the MK-4C is as opposed to the standard MK-4 by Defense Industries?

I am doing a Master OC Instructor Trainer class in Lexington, SC Sept 26-28, 2006 you may want to see if they will send you.

Thanks for the info. However, I just started a new career as a High School Physics teacher. I will still keep my hand in the Marine Corps Martial arts Program but will not be doing much advanced training from this point on. I may set up a MCMAP program for the two Marine JROTC companies in the schools I associate with. No OC but there is a lot of interest by the military instructors in teaching defensive techniques.

Rich

[Dave Young]

I have a can of it right here...Defense Technology/Federal Labs in the MK-4 red can. I have a can of it in yellow as well that is labelled MK-4C. Dave... do you know what the C indicates? The contents appear to be the same as the MK-4.

Dave: I asked this question above. Do you know what the MK-4C is as opposed to the standard MK-4 by Defense Industries?

MK-4 C - Since CA DOC and in LE in general does a lot of business with them they developed a special can with the letter C identifying that this contains the California-Legal 2.5 oz. of the maximum allotted formula.

Hope that answered your questions..so I missed it...God Luck in our new career....Semper Fi!

Dave

[RACastanet]

Yep, that is it. The 'c' can is 2.5 oz vs. the red can at 3.0.

Thanks, Rich