free speech or hate speech/(crime)

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free speech or hate speech/(crime)

Postby sarosenc » Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:13 pm

When your opinion and right of free speech offends the wrong people in the wrong place.

Christians Arrested for ‘Hate Crime’ to Be Arraigned on Monday

http://www.cwfa.org/articles/6542/CFI/nation/index.htm
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Postby benzocaine » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:11 pm

:evil: :evil:


1) I think it was wrong for the Christians to harrass the gays.


2) I think the Christians have every right to protest as long as it's within the law.

Just wait until there are Gay pride parades in front of these churches. What you reap you sow :wink:
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Think That's Sad....

Postby Mills75 » Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:27 am

I think a hate crime is a really stupid deal because there are laws on the books already that prevent harassment and such things and we should be equal in the eyes of the law to make one more important than another or more protected is not equal in the eyes of the law in my opinion.Two wrongs don't make a right and changing the constitution to protect certain people moreso is just flat wrong.The same as the gun debate criminals get guns anyhow and there are laws on the book seldom used to convict them but still many cry that we need to restrict our freedoms and make it harder for the law abiding when criminals and non prosecution is the real problem.

It's sad when you're free speech is curbed and you charge seventy two year old people for speaking their mind and not hurting anyone by taking any action in a violent regard.Now they will let murderers walk the streets and get released early on the streets to kill again but those dangerous elderly seventy two year olds with opinions darn now those folks need locked up lol it's a laugh but go figure that's what we have become in this country excuse makers and malcontents.Every crime involves hate I would argue if you're a drunk then it's self hate and if you're even a jaywalker then you hate to wait for the the signs to change before crossing traffic and tax evasion you hate paying taxes it goes on and on but all crime has hate involved in it which was already covered by law before this silly unconstitutional hate crime stuff.Anyhow in closing it's more of the same from the pacifists and please everyone group even at the risk of your rights.more babble and garbage.pacifists and please everyone people in jail are called prostitutes because they need others to defend their rights and they allow themselves to be used and raped.I am glad some people get it though and see the unfair garbage in some of the things that happen decaying our freedoms each day.. good post..Sarosenc..

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Think That's Sad....

Postby Mills75 » Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:27 am

I think a hate crime is a really stupid deal because there are laws on the books already that prevent harassment and such things and we should be equal in the eyes of the law to make one more important than another or more protected is not equal in the eyes of the law in my opinion.Two wrongs don't make a right and changing the constitution to protect certain people moreso is just flat wrong.The same as the gun debate criminals get guns anyhow and there are laws on the book seldom used to convict them but still many cry that we need to restrict our freedoms and make it harder for the law abiding when criminals and non prosecution is the real problem.

It's sad when you're free speech is curbed and you charge seventy two year old people for speaking their mind and not hurting anyone by taking any action in a violent regard.Now they will let murderers walk the streets and get released early on the streets to kill again but those dangerous elderly seventy two year olds with opinions darn now those folks need locked up lol it's a laugh but go figure that's what we have become in this country excuse makers and malcontents.Every crime involves hate I would argue if you're a drunk then it's self hate and if you're even a jaywalker then you hate to wait for the the signs to change before crossing traffic and tax evasion you hate paying taxes it goes on and on but all crime has hate involved in it which was already covered by law before this silly unconstitutional hate crime stuff.Anyhow in closing it's more of the same from the pacifists and please everyone group even at the risk of your rights.more babble and garbage.pacifists and please everyone people in jail are called prostitutes because they need others to defend their rights and they allow themselves to be used and raped.I am glad some people get it though and see the unfair garbage in some of the things that happen decaying our freedoms each day.. good post..Sarosenc..

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Postby sarosenc » Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:40 am

Ben,

I don't understnad your reply ... they sound contradictory to me. You accuse the christians of harassment and then uphold their right to protest and present another side of the issue? What do you really mean?
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I want to know why???????

Postby Mills75 » Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:42 am

Why is it that when a protest outside the Republican national convention occurs and things are burnt in the middle of the streets of new york not a person is charged with a hate crime afterall republicans are a group of people displaying a belief like gays would be displaying their belief in their parade? What is different about it? Christians showed up to a gay pride parade to disapprove and get hit with felony charges and hate crime charges and they didn't even burn anything up like people did in the protest of the beliefs of the republican party at the convention in new york. we need special consideration by law also by these peoples standards because we are being descriminated against unfairly..Why is it different? are we not a group of people with beliefs as valid? Oh ok I see as usual in an unconstitutional way as always these people are afforded more protection than us even though we are equally american citizens.that is the logic of the liberal..even if it makes no sense and one group is treated the very same only one group gets charged with a crime cause we want it that way..no reason or basis we just feel for them and so we change the law? not in my book the people outside the republican convention should all have hate crimes against them and should be up for jail sentences also afterall we're all equal right? we are by solid logic but not by liberal standards which make no sense and have no basis as usual...

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good post really and last thing i'm saying on this...

Postby Mills75 » Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:34 am

example when the rainbow push coalition shakes down companies and threatens boycotts for the purpose of making jesse jackson richer and for the purpose of extortion in my belief it's ok but when the mafia was doing it years before it was a crime and R.I.C.O. laws of organized crime were instituted to jail the offenders.the mafia men went to jail for the crime they were committing but jackson sets up a group then it all of a sudden is legit and ok.. for one side it's a crime and for another it's a boycott..when you threaten a companies profits and reputation with reprocussions in exhange for money then it's a crime of extortion..the mafia went to jail for it and then some seem to do the same without it being a crime it's funny how these laws apply to one and not the other doesn't seem like equal law to me..

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Postby benzocaine » Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:33 am

I don't understnad your reply ... they sound contradictory to me. You accuse the christians of harassment and then uphold their right to protest and present another side of the issue? What do you really mean?


From the article you posted..

Ten adults and a teen-ager who showed up to sing hymns and carry signs peacefully at Philadelphia’s latest homosexual celebration were arrested on Sunday and spent 21 hours in jail.


I doubt the sighns said stuff like Jesus Loves you. It was probably more like Jesus hates Fags like those wonderful ambassadors of Christ displayed whenMathew Sheppherdwas murdered.

Don't Remember? ImageImage

I dont know... maybee I don't really support this type of free speach. But yet I beleive in free speech. Still, people should be allowed to live without being intimidated or harrassed.

Maybee your people Repent Americawere honestly carrying sighns that trumpeted God's love. And those guys really love those gay people, and want them in heaven with them. :roll:

But I doubt it.
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Postby benzocaine » Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:44 am

Christians showed up to a gay pride parade to disapprove and get hit with felony charges and hate crime charges and they didn't even burn anything up like people did in the protest of the beliefs of the republican party at the convention in new york. we need special consideration by law also by these peoples standards because we are being descriminated against unfairly. ~ Mills75


The article said it was an event,not a parade. Like I said, see what happens when gays go to protest churches and picket them :evil:
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Postby benzocaine » Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:48 am

Ohhhhhh Wait!!! From the page of Repent America..

Peacefull my @ss!


Image
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with all due respect as always

Postby Mills75 » Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:59 am

I really don't care what type of function it was whether it was an event or a parade or whatever.. the fact is if they only held signs no matter what the signs said not that I agree with the signs you posted but no matter if the christians had signs even bad signs they still broke no law i know of if they didn't put their hands on anyone or threaten anyone..They should have the right to peacefully display their feelings as any group should. Plus still the fact remains one group of people was held accountable and said to have done wrong when the other group burning down New yorks streets were not held accountable for their actions against another group..double standard...And I'm sure christians are not politely refered to by some and have been victims also but to dangle one case like matthew shepard is like lumping all christians together for the act of one radical group of them most christians don't kill or call people slurs.it's like saying all muslims are terrorists..i could hang pictures of bin laden in this forum but it doesn't make all muslims like bin laden or agree with him..

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Postby IJ » Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:32 am

So....

It as hard from me to tell from the link what actually happened. The site is clearly presented from the protester (I would say christian but might have been a bunch on the other side too) standpoint. I couldn't say from reading it whether they were treated unfairly or not, certainly they may have been. Sounds like there was more than talk; I've been a noisy complainer for 29 years but have never faced these charges:
2) “criminal conspiracy” (1st-degree felony).
3) “possession of instruments of crime” (1st-degree misdemeanor).
4) “reckless endangerment of another person” (2nd-degree felony).
5) “riot” (3rd-degree felony).
6) “failure to disperse” (2nd-degree misdemeanor).
7) “disorderly conduct” (2nd-degree misdemeanor).
8) “obstructing a highway” (3rd-degree misdemeanor).

As for hate crimes laws, some complaints raised aren't exactly accurate. One was that the laws grant some people more protection than others and that's not equal. That's NOT true. The other was that all crimes involve hate and evidently can be equated on that line of reasoning. That's more debatable but I would also say, easily disprovable by example. More to come later...
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Postby benzocaine » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:31 am

Jeff,

Did you read the article or follow my link to the 'Christian" group? That picture I posted Image is from their website.

There's nothing wrong with being Christian.

IMHO those nut bags do not even come close to being epresentatives of the God Jesus Christ talked about. Read Mathew Mark Luke and John. Jesus was against the Ultra Legalistic religious nuts. He called them hypocrites for focussing on others peoples problems. He called them white washed sepluchres(sp)(tombs) nice on the outide but full of death. Jesus had amongst him a prostitute, and a tax colector.. the dregs of society. He even made the tax collector an Apostle. The Ultra holier than thous hated him for that..and had him crucified.

Christian=Christlike Nope, those hate filled A holes are nothing like the Jesus I was taught about.
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points taken..

Postby Mills75 » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:43 am

I just want the law to apply equally for everyone truly and I'm not a member of this group and there's good and bad in all groups I'm not supporting them as much as I'm supporting their right to speak if that is indeed all they did as they claim..in reality they may have done more and we'll find out i'm sure.but as it stands now If what they say is true and all they did was voice opinion even if i don't agree with them I must support their right to voice it as I would support anyones right to speak I don't have to agree or join their group but I have to respect their constitutional rights as i would want mine respected.just as I would have to respect the rights of the people at the outfest even though i'm in disagreement i would not seek to silence their voices or their beliefs.so in closing i support any groups right to speak peacefully..i just see speech and action as two seperate avenues and so far i just see the point of view from the one side presented who claims all they did was speak..and so far i say that's fine and dandy and protected by law if that's truly all they did..

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John Stuart Mill - 1859

Postby Mills75 » Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:38 am

" The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of opinion, is that it is robbing the human race..If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth,produced by it's collision with error."

Essay on Liberty 1859
John Stuart Mill
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