Hope you got everything you wished for today! Now back to the regularly scheduled broadcasting....
<<It's fun listening to you, Mike. At least your point of view is clear. No changing it, for sure. >>
It's fun to battle with you Bill because we both wear it on our sleeves!
quote:
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Originally posted by Mike Just because one has the power doesn't mean they have to use it.
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<<And just because one can kick the crap out of someone doesn't mean one shouldn't do so before having it done to them or see it done to someone else first. But I won't change your mind about U.S. as bully, so continue to feel badly for the both of us. >>
I don't believe we should be in the field of kicking the crap out of someone just because we "think" they might strike first. How about some proof first. Oh yeah, all those weapons of mass destruction. I forgot what "W" claimed.
<<Wrong, Mike. It has everything to do with the thread. Follow the al qaeda connection. >>
It's different in the way that it is a different type of conflict than the one going on in Iraq. Let's not start a thread on this quite yet.
<<OK, so you think Nick Berg "asked for it" then, right? That evil man who wants to pay his bills.... The nerve of him not being part of some society where all is provided by the government instead. I mean really... He should have gotten a real job like yours, Mike! >>
And like yours Bill! You've traveled enough, you should know the Constitution doesn't go with you. Did he know the danger? I'm assuming he did. If you go dancing in mine fields, expect a few booms!
<<Oh and just in case you didn't read the article I posted above, Zarqawi was trained in chemical and biological weapons in Afghanistan by al qaeda, and arrived in Iraq long before the U.S. was ever there. But let's not confuse ourselves with these details. Should we reserve those details for another thread as well? >>
Probably, but where were all the weapons? Did we find everything "W" said was there? Training and using are two different things. Did we go into Iraq because Zarqawi trained in chemical and biological weapons? I have a friend who took a class at MIT that involved how to make a nuclear weapon, does that mean he will do it? Where does it end Bill? Like I said before, is N. Korea and Iran next on your hit list because of their recent experiments? Why don't we just go and do away with China and France, they are just guilty in training and supplying than those in Afghanistan.
<<Yep... Glad my SUV tank is full now! >>
Drive well my friend and remember what it took to get it.
<<What? You didn't get YOUR oil shipment, Mike? What about your quota of Iraqi love slaves? >>
How much oil are we receiving from Iraq these days? The love slaves had to be shipped via cargo ships so they won't get inspected.
<<Boy, Santa wasn't very nice to you this year. Maybe you were bad and voted for the wrong man... >>
I knew voting for Bill Clinton was wrong (he can't be elected for a third term) but I did it anyway just to piss off all those blood thirsty republicans.
<<When I was a kid, I wanted to play for the Boston Red Sox. Instead what I found is that I had talents that I have subsequently taken advantage of first in academic research (check my publications in the 1980s and 1990s) and then doing health services research and product development in the private sector. >>
Damn! And we could have used you all those lowly years ago.
<<I still hit balls in the batting cage.>>
Do you put little pictures of Ted Kennedy on each one for better results?
<<BTW, I missed the draft in Vietnam by one year. My draft number was 19. I was a gonner...but then the war ended. Les jeux sont fait! >>
For that I am truely thankful!
<<You keep forgetting, Mike. YOU'RE the one that loves all these governments with central planning. I like an economy where individuals have choices, and the free market rules. >>
I love the idea of freedom of choice, but I personally don't espouse things that I wouldn't do. That's just me of course. Would I pick up a gun and fight in Iraq. Not in your life! But I would be the first if the cause was right.
<<You're getting confused again, Mike, between your strawman and the facts.>>
Enlighten me oh wise one. You keep saying that this Iraq invasion was right because you believe in defending your freedom because al queda has somehow stripped you of it (paraphrasing of course). Tell me what you really mean (and don't hold back)!
<<I'm never afraid to have France, Germany, Russia, China, and Koffee Annan criticize us, Mike. In fact I find it pretty funy - particularly in light of all the documents we found on them in Iraq. >>
I guess it just depends on your global perspective huh? It's like the rest of the world who views "W" as a fool. Good thing we are always right!
<<Yes, Mike, they were very, very bad. Santa won't be sending them any oil credits for Christmas... >>
Oh, they'll all get their oil credits, you can be sure of that!
<<So you want to piss on Britain, Poland, Australia, Bulgaria, and other allies that stuck by us?>>
Darn! I forgot about the power-houses of Australia and Bulgaria. How many troops did they send again?
<<And reward those who were f***ing us over behind our backs? I'm glad I skipped straight over to Foreigh Policy 102... >>
Good thing we are in the majority huh? Hell, go right to FP 103 "International Relations and Double Standards"
<<Where the hell did YOU go, Mike? >>
Well, I was kind of in the party mode. Yes, I'll admit, I spent some time in Georgetown :-0
<<Ever heard of Alexandria? Arlington? Falls Church? Loudon County? You're a teacher, Mike. Check out their average SAT scores. Bet you a dinner of your choice that those scores (or any other standardized tests) kick the crap out of the school district in which you teach. >>
I was thinking of DC, not into the posh resorts of Alexandria or Arlington, however, before you go throwing out scores and stats, we can all do that (i.e. Wellesley, Weston, Hingham). What does it really mean? My mom can kick the S**t out of your mom
<<Hey, it was you guys that started all the trouble. It took Virginians and Virginia to straighten it all out.>>
And then screwed it up all over again in 1861. Oops, facts...sorry!
Rich,
Oh to be so perfect. I guess next time I'm up late setting out the Xmas gifts for the kids and decide to break for the computer, I'll bring the spell check with me and do some major editing. BTW, next time you need something corrected or looked over, I'll be more than happy to lend my red pen. In fact, I'd get a kick out of it. Isn't there a gun that needs to be loaded somewhere???
IJ,
<<No, because we don't.>>
WHAT????
Do you happen to know the poverty rate in the US? (12.1%) That's out of approximately 294 million as of last guess. These are people who are practically starving to death in a country where we have the capability of feeding most of the planet if we chose to. That's sad!
<<Actually, if you come to any hospital for any reason whether you're homeless, uninsured, violent, mean, from jail, or an illegal immigrant, that hospital is required to provide ncessary care and can't send you out untreated or to an unsafe situation.>>
Oh, that's just beautiful. They just jump in their BMWs and treck up to the local hospital where they'll be treated with the utmost care. Only because I'm not as computer savy as Bill sensei in this, but the following is a good read:
"Many people who lack a stable, permanent residence have few shelter options because shelters are filled to capacity or are unavailable. A recent study of 27 U.S. cities found that in 2001, 37% of all requests for emergency shelter went unmet due to lack of resources - a 13% increase from the previous year. For families, the numbers are even worse: 52% of emergency shelter requests from families were denied, a 22% increase from last year (U.S. Conference of Mayors, 2001). In addition, a review of homelessness in 50 cities found that in virtually every city, the city's official estimated number of homeless people greatly exceeded the number of emergency shelter and transitional housing spaces (National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, 1999). Moreover, there are few or no shelters in rural areas of the United States, despite significant levels of homelessness (Aron and Fitchen, 1996). As a result of these and other factors, many people in homeless situations are forced to live with relatives and friends in crowded, temporary arrangements. People in these situations are experiencing homelessness but are less likely to be counted. For instance, of the children and youth identified as homeless by State Departments of Education in FY2000, only 35 percent lived in shelters; 34 percent lived doubled-up with family or friends, and 23 percent lived in motels and other locations. Yet, these children and youth may not immediately be recognized as homeless and are sometimes denied access to shelter or the protections and services of the McKinney-Vento Act (U.S. Department of Education).
There are several national estimates of homelessness. Many are dated, or based on dated information. For all of the reasons discussed above, none of these estimates is the definitive representation of "how many people are homeless," but the best approximation is from an Urban Institute study which states that about 3.5 million people, 1.35 million of them children, are likely to experience homelessness in a given year (Urban Institute 2000).
These numbers, based on findings from the Urban Institute and specifically the National Survey of Homeless Assistance Providers, draw their estimates from a study of service providers across the country at two different times of the year in 1996. The found that, on a given night in October, 444,000 people (in 346,000 households) experienced homelessness - which translates to 6.3% of the population of people living in poverty. On a given night in February, 842,000 (in 637,000 households) experienced homelessness - which translates to almost 10% of the population of people living in poverty. Converting these estimates into an annual projection, the numbers that emerge are 2.3 million people (based on the October estimate) and 3.5 million people (based on the February estimate). This translates to approximately 1% of the U.S. population experiencing homelessness each year, 38 percent (October) to 39 percent (February) of them being children (Urban Institute 2000).
It is also important to note that this study was based on a national survey of service providers. Since not all people experiencing homelessness utilize service providers, the actual numbers of people experiencing homelessness are likely higher than those found in the study, Thus, we are estimating on the high end of the study's numbers: 3.5 million people, 39% of which are children (Urban Institute 2000).
Thirteen percent of homeless patients surveyed in a national study published in the 1980s stated that poor physical health was a factor in their becoming homeless. Of those patients, half said health was a "major factor" and 15% stated that it was the "single most important" factor (Wright and Weber, 1987). The problem has become much worse in the last decade, as the number of uninsured Americans continues to increase. In 1997, 43.4 million people in the United States lacked health insurance, and nearly one-third of persons living in poverty had no health insurance of any kind (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 1998). The coverage held by many others would not carry them through a catastrophic illness. A recent analysis of Health Care for the Homeless (HCH) projects found that the number of uninsured persons seeking treatment is increasing: overall, HCH programs report a 35% increase in the numbers of patients who are uninsured (O'Connell, J., Lozier, J., and Gingles, K., 1997)."
Are you still so sure that our government is doing all it can? How about taking one week of Iraqi/Afghani money and putting it to good use here?
So of those minimal number of patients you saw and did something for (I applaud you...really) it's just a drop in the bucket.
<<You want to compare us to states that forbade medical care to women unless by women doctors whose education they forbade? And used relief money for palaces while kids starved? Go ahead, but the problem exists only in your noodle. I have problems with our police action in Iraq, but I'm not crazy enough to believe our system's not orders of magnitude better.>>
No, I want us to think of US first. Let's fix the problems here before we rush off spending billions to a place or cause which will see no return for the money. Even if Virginia is Utopia (that spelled right Rich???), there are 49 other states who could sure use the money.
<<PS who's raping natural resources? Iraqhas pumped oil before we arrived;>>
It's their oil, isn't it? What right do we have to take it?
<< far as I know, Afghanistan has rocks and heroin, and we need neither here.>>
And at last I heard both industries are doing better than ever. Good thing we were able to help. I wonder where the increased heroin production is going? Probably not to the posh resorts of Arlington or Alexandria.
mike
