What happened to the military??

[mikemurphy]

Bill Sensei,

<<First, get over the WMD issue. We would have gone with or without them. Period. End of story.>>

Do you know something that everyone else doesn't here Bill? "W" made it quite clear why we were heading there, and one of, if not the main reason, was WMD. I'm not getting over that blatant lie. Why do you dismiss things that hurt your argument so easily? He said they were there. We went against the UN and the world's edict and invaded anyway, and found nothing. But to you and the rest, it's simply a case of ending terrorism as we know it. Reality my friend.......


<<It was a nice showcase reason but...>>

Your "W" gave it to us!


<<Saddam violated I believe 13 "last chance" resolutions from the U.N. The U.N. refused to do anything about it. And why? Saddam had all the right parties bought off. He rendered the organization useless. >>

That's never been a reason to invade a country before in UN history, why now????

<<Meanwhile... I kind of like cleaning up a mess before it turns into a 9/11.>>

Once again, this is looking into a crystal ball. If we are going to fly by that foreign policy, then why don't we just nuke Russia, China, N.Korea, Cuba....etc., eventually they'll do something nasty that we won't like Why not just cut to the chase?

<<We had every reason then and every reason now to believe that the place was a major U.S. terrorist event waiting to happen<<

Every reason to believe, BUT, we know that Saudi Arabia sponsers terrorist groups, France supplies them with material, and Egypt supplies them with the people. Why not go after what we know?

<<never mind Saddam's history of taking what he wanted in the Middle East>>

What problem is that of ours, other than oil? Not worth dying for in my opinion (but we've already had that discussion).

<<engaging in ethnic cleansing>>

Like half the nations in Africa and yet we don't do anything in there. Guess what? no oil.

<<and direct efforts to kill Jews>>

As far as I know, Israel didn't ask for our assistance here? Did they? They are busy witht their own self-imposed effort of ethnic cleansing.


<<Life has been a lot better in the rest of the Middle East since he has been gone.>>

True. Since Iraqi oil is still not up to full production, Kuwait, SA, and the others are making even more I'm sure.

<<And the cost of cleaning a mess up in Iraq is a lot cheaper than the cost of cleaning one up over here.>>

Once again, I think you will be disappointed when they hit us again and you can't blame it on Iraq anymore. You'll have to look for another scapegoat.

<<As for the rest of the problems, well I leave you with an ancient Chinese saying. In order to scare 100 monkeys, kill one. >>

Or piss off the rest of the species.


<<Oh, and you should know by now that I don't own an SUV. I was just being "ironical." Still looking for some major improvements... (And/or the SUV of my dreans to drop down from $63 K.) Plus... I need a big one so I can carry both my family and my Iraqi love slaves... >>

I know you don't, but I do. And it ***** up gas like it's going out of style. And you know what? I think we should all buy SUVs and use up the oil as fast as we can so that we can really do something about extremists from the Middle East. Because without oil, they will again mean nothing to the US, and we'll ignore them like we do most of the third world nations of the world.

<<* Your numbers on the homeless are interesting. However you must understand that there is a law of diminishing returns here. Sorry if it seems cold but...them's the facts. Here are the issues. >>

I like cold


<<Once upon a time, Mike, we put all those homeless schizophrenics in "shelters" (a.k.a. Institutions) "for their own good." But "progressive" thinking in psychiatric care dictates that we can't hold such people in such shelters against their will any more unless they show a potential of harming either themselves or others. So all M.D.s can do is give them medicine, tell them how to treat themselves, and let them go. And if Mr. Jones or Mrs. Smith decides not to take their meds, to shun the world, and to live where they damn well please (even if on the street), well...there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. So what would you do with all these people, Mike? Change the laws and force them all back in Institutions? >>

I did an interesting paper once on the advantages of allowing homeless people the right to have assisted suicides. It was a fun paper to do because it mentioned the schizophrenics and other homeless lots. I don't have the answer, but I think that if you put money into it, you may come up with an answer. How about 1 billion per week?


<<You can't do a damn thing about these folks if they don't want to be helped, Mike.>>

Isn't if funny that I used this same statement about the people in the Middle East and you don't buy it. Go figure, it must be a "home" thing.

<<You want to do something, Mike? Support GOOD research on the treatment of schizophrenia. And find ways to make schizophrenics today take their meds. Good luck... >>

Answer = money

<<Meanwhile, you can throw a lot of good money after bad on this problem today, and not get very far. >>

Kind of like our current fight against terrorism.


<<Watcha want to bet that your only hope for a Democrat in the White House in the next few elections is a Deomocratic Governor in my neighborhood?>>

So long as it is not a Senator from NY.


<<So what's the problem with living doubled-up with family and friends? Sounds like a better deal all the way around! And it used to be that churches took on this role in a community. What happened? >>

I don't know what happened to churches (too busy paying off legal bills no doubt), but the problem is that we live in the greatest nation in the world. Why should people have to live like that?

<<We all should ask a little less of government and a little more of each other and ourselves to make life bearable. >>

How many people have you taken in this year? How much money have you given to charity? Dr. Ian may treat these people because he has to, but how much of his doctor's salary as gone back to help them? I'm using you and Ian as examples and NOT saying you guys don't give back.

<<Hats off to you, sir. And may they double your salary. Teachers deserve it. >>

Thanks Bill, but that won't happen while teacher's pay is decided by the local communities.

Happy New Years!

mike

[mikemurphy]

Ian,

<<Mike, your arguments are lame. Sorry guy. >>

Lame because you don't agree with them?

<<First you quote figures on poverty. Great. People are poor. That has nothing to do with the provision of emergency services. What, should we just write them a check and make them nonpoor? Poor doesn't equate with starving. A lot of poor people have the OTHER weight problem actually. Next time use starvation figures. >>

Wow, listen to this. Poor has nothing to do with emergency services? Are you kidding me? How do these poor people get to the emergency room Ian? Are you picking them up in the BMW? Unless they fall in a main highway, ambulences don't go searching the places where they live. Better yet, poor doesn't equate with starving? Let me get this straight, no money = no food. Hmmm, sorry I don't get the logic. As a doctor you know that when people can't afford food, or for the sake of your arguement "Proper food," what is the consequence of that? Disease? Weak immune systems? I'm sure you can come up with a few more. Maybe we should get out our collective check books.


<<No dummy, they call our elaborate system of emergency transportation and get a free ride! >>

No dummy, they don't have a freakin' quarter to make the call, or maybe the elaborate ER companies take their time going to the areas where they live. Doesn't matter to local hospitals I guess because they "have" to treate them anyway. Right?

<<Next you cite figures on people who are forced to live in cramped circumstances with others. This is not homelessness! This is crowding and it occurs worldwide.>>

Is it overcrowded in your house? Because it happens around the world then we shouldn't be concerned? Is that what you're saying? Hey, the rest of the world isn't invading Middle East countries on a lie, but we did it anyway.


<< I do not want to be further taxed so everyone has a NICE place to live. Do you? If you do, why don't you already give away all of your "excess income"? >>

You know, I'd rather be taxed for something good like finding Americans a nice place to live than to use my tax money to fund a runaway military trying to prove who the big guy on the block is. 1 Billion dollars a week. Tax money we'll never be able to pay! As for excess income, as a public school teacher, there is no excess income. As a doctor though.....

<<Next you give us stats that many people are homeless. Guess what! That's what the shelter system is for, not a sign it is not working. How many of these people are TURNED away from all shelters? You don't tell us.>>

I'm sorry, I thought the stat was there. I'll go look again. The shelter system doesn't work if they turn away one person, so I don't really see why you think the number is important anyway. We both know it is significant.


"So of those minimal number of patients you saw and did something for it's just a drop in the bucket."

<<Luckily, I am not the only physician working at what is not the only hospital in what is not the only city in the USA Nor do I represent the private charities, the shelters, and meals on wheels, and all the other services this rather ab fab nation provides! PS: I'm getting paid for my work, so it's no big deal--the taxpayers are the actual providers in this system. >>

Great. The way you make it sound is we don't have a problem at all. That's wonderful. I guess I don't have to worry about those articles about homeless people freezing to death in the winter because the shelters are full. These people aren't part of the statistics because all the doctors, in all the hospitals, in all the cities in the USA treat all these people, and what they don't see, doesn't exist.

"It's their oil, isn't it? What right do we have to take it?"

<<We're rebuilding their country. How's that? >>

Who asked us?


<<Mike, just bring a real argument to the table! >>

Here I am telling Bill to get his head out of the sand...wow. How about getting real for a little bit. You can't possibly live in a cacoon forever.

mike

[2Green]

Original question:"What happened to the military?? "

Answer: They were marched into a country under false pretenses to fight a war which no one supported, AND THEY WERE WARNED it was a bad idea.

Now they are having their asses handed to them despite their "superior technology" and fancy night vision goggles.
They are being challenged, threatened and killed by fighters who are able to capitalize on inappropriate preparation.

Like dojo warriors, they, (or their "senseis") were unprepared for the real battle due to a lack of appreciation of the enemy's strengths; instead they were "prepared" with lots of propaganda and bravado, and a phony excuse for war, which unfortunately has come up short.
Same in Vietnam, same in Somalia, the list goes on, and Iraq will likely be added to it.

For the record, I would like the USA to win this war, and very quickly.
I believe the motives for "going in" were important but concealed from the general public, leading to the lack of support.
In place, a false pretext was presented, creating a backlash of protest.


War in todays' world is not about missiles and bombs. Problem is, the weapons industry IS.
Therefore the USA is in a position of having to perpetuate a cold-war-era big-gun model, despite the fact that this is not winning wars--it's just creating jobs and sending money to political supporters. And it is rendering the USA out-of-date in the modern world of war.


MISSILE SHIELD system:
I would like to sound off on this as well.
It may surprise you that I think Canada should support the project IF IT IS PROVEN to work, which so far it has not been, despite what CNN may have told you. It is a dismal failure so far.
How could anyone expect us to support it, given this?

But if it is ever proven to work (very unlikely) and if Canada will realistically benefit from it, then we HAVE to support it.
We can do this and still defend our stance against the weaponization of space. We can participate in any land/sea/air/ - based deployment of the system, including monitoring and alerts, like we do in NORAD.

However, the point is moot because the "system" is really a political gambit, not a realistic defense strategy. There is little chance it could ever intercept even a harmless decoy, let alone a real threat, and for THIS reason Canada will likely decline participation.
We will likely be too polite to point out the real reason for our declination to participate.

But if it ever IS proven, and actually CAN protect the North American Continent including Canada, then I think we SHOULD participate if we are being protected. I just don't ever expect it to happen.

No offense to anyone is intended in the above; it's just an objective look at the scene from outside the US border, based on worldwide reporting and some dispassionate, hopefully rational thought.
Please, feel free to disagree. It's our strength to be able do so.

NM

[RACastanet]

"a war which no one supported,"

Lets see, more people in the US voted to re-elect Bush - ie: support the war - than there are people in Canada. Are you saying that a number of people about the size of Canada's population is no one?

"asses handed to them"

We conquered the country in about 2 weeks. In November, we cleaned out Falluja in about 2 weeks, despite warnings of the horrors awaiting us in the urban environment. As I recall there are about 3,000 fewer terrorist asses fighting us now. The only reason we have not obliterated the enemy is that they fight from Mosques and from behind children... a moral problem for our egalitarian way of thinking. If we used the philosophy of the terrorists, Iraq would be a parking lot by now.

I have direct contact with people in Iraq and back from Iraq. Despite what the liberal press would have you believe, the vast majority of Iraqis support us. They are really pissed off at the terrorists from inside and outside of Iraq who are doing the killing of innocents and sabotaging the power supply, water and oil refineries and pipelines.

"However, the point is moot because the "system" is really a political gambit, not a realistic defense strategy."

This may be true today as it will take a while for technology to make the system a reality. However, Reagan's 'Star Wars' was a political gambit, and it so terrifired the Soviets that they spent themselves into the ground, and ultimately 'SW' broke up the Soviet Union and brought down the Berlin wall.

"No offense to anyone is intended"

I'm very offended! Canada can sit back and be smug and wink at the French knowing that the US would come to its aid immediately should there be a need, whether due to war or a natural catastrophe. Why, because it is our nature. Canada is family.

You have no friend here in Richmond 2 Green.

Rich

[IJ]

Mike, I may stop soon, because your efforts bear so little relation to a rational argument, one that you should be able to really believe, that it sounds like you're just being contrary and not really trying. Cases in point:

"Are you picking them up in the BMW?"

I drive a honda. I'm recovering financially now, as I am starting to get paid for the (hard) work I do--at 30. But it's worth pointing out there was no pay for my 20 years of school and the first year of work after that, they reported my hours as "40" on my payslip because if they were honest with the numbers, it would be illegal, because it would be less than minimum wage. And you know what? Slash that to fund every possible social service and you may find that doctors, already dissatisfied with their careers, flee it in droves just like nurses are.

Actually, you should be well aware that most people have phones. Even poor ones. I know this because doctors are inundated with forms asking them to prevent the phone company from discontinuing service on poor people with medical problems who don't pay for the service. Even if they can afford to smoke... eat junk food... or drink all day instead. Plus, most people can bum some change for calling the ambulance in 60 seconds. Most can get someone to call for them, for free, if they need it! Wouldnt you call for a stranger? Give us a break, Mike. Phone access is not what's limiting care in the USA.

"no money = no food"

Actually, you should be well aware that many poor people can afford the food they need, AND generally the rest have access to charitable aid.
I'm not saying there are no hungry people, but if you want perfect, you're living on the wrong planet. And you want to acuse ambulances of not going to pick up poor people? For Chrissake, back up the ludicrous statements with something, anything. Once again, ambulances MUST pick up everyone and anyone who calls. I once had THREE people come to the ER after sitting around in a living room, they all decided at once they might as well see what they could get for "back pain," by coming in together. Lo, a simultaneous back pain crisis! The ambulance people cannot say no.

"Because it happens around the world then we shouldn't be concerned?"

No. How can you tell if I'm saying that, since you ask? Well, read my post. I won't wish overcrowding on people, but it is not feasible, nor advisable, nor right to steal from the haves to make sure everyone regardless of situation has a perfectly comfortable world. Maybe you were spoiled. But government is not here to spoil every last citizen. The country YOU run someday is going to be bankrupt in a week, and who will that help?

"As a public school teacher, there is no excess income."

Then you'd have us believe you're the worst paid individual in the united states who has not yet become homeless and starved? Puhlease. Value what you have before your dream nanny state takes it.

"The shelter system doesn't work if they turn away one person, so I don't really see why you think the number is important anyway."

Here it is... nonsense. The idea that if something isn't perfect, it's krap. No wonder the war makes you so upset! Of course civilians will die no matter how hard we work at it! Why should we even try? Did you ever have a kid fail a test? Oh, boo hoo... burn the school down and kill yourself in dispair. Cry me a river!

"The way you make it sound is we don't have a problem at all."

No, I just can't lie in bed awake all night sobbing because the world isn't perfect yet. Somehow it's enough for me to know we do quite well, and that I do my best. There's something else you should be aware of out there in the real world. These people who freeze to death... they're not all people just like you who are down on their luck. Some are mentally ill people who refuse to live in a shelter. Some are people who are substance abusing. We can't save these people, not all, without roaming the streets with infrared cameras seeking people who have not sought help themselves. Again, the world isn't perfect.

All this krap, Mike, and you tell Bill to "get real?" What you want is the fantasy world from star trek--no money, no poverty, everyone happily working together without incentives toward an idealistic end, everything's resolved in 1 hour or maybe the end of the season. Life's a bit more complex, and I encourage you to be a little more "glass half full," on some of these issues, and/or have specific constructive comments now and then. For example, since you were griping about it, would you mind telling me just HOW a society with limited means is supposed to provide limitless emergency service to large swaths of land which are populated by people who don't have phones yet might need an ambulance within minutes? The telepaths from "minority report" aren't an acceptable proposal.

[Bill Glasheen]

I find that there is merit sometimes in taking a break from something, or just taking a breath. It's against my talkative Irish nature, mind you... I believe a wise man once said "Better to be silent and have people think you are ignorant than to speak and confirm their suspicions."

Anyhow... It's nice to see Ian and Rich arguing points better than my own.

And it's nice to see Gene getting medical issues resolved.

Mike, one of the biggest problems I see you not overcoming (or not WANTING to overcome) is that we did not go to war just for WMD. And GW did not lie when he spoke of WMD in Iraq. And the U.N. had nothing to do with what was "just" before we invaded Iraq. And yes, the U.N. SHOULD back up its threats; otherwise they become The League of Nations. They almost already are. Save this for another thead, because I can already tell you aren't going to change your mind. It is a waste of bandwidth.

And once again, remember killing one monkey when talking about other transgressions in the world.

And yes, we ARE doing something about Sudan. We went over there, and pleaded the case to the U.N. Did France?

Ian really brought up something very important here. It's the idea that if something is wrong with a process, then the process is completely f***ed up. Certainly with the liberal bias of press like The New York Times (many of whose reporters believe it is their mission to convince us all of their morally superior views of the world), one can get a pretty distorted view of what's going on in Iraq.

Let's not deny anything. People are getting killed. The place is a bit of a mess. But people were getting killed before, and - what's worse - they had no hope. These days, many of them have hope. I saw a pretty neat "B" movie with the boys the other day - Flight of the Phoenix. In it, there was an interesting line at a moment of truth. It spoke of the need for hope and for a direction in life. If nothing else, we all need to have and give that hope, and a process for achieving that hope.

F*** failure. Let the pantywaisted weenies whine in their loser sorrow. I'm f***ing going to get something done, and I don't care if you don't like how ugly it looks. And I am not going to "take it" from those who - by the way - also have a vote in the matter. (Imagine that!) I can live with that - even if it results in failure.

As for the homeless, well I want to share something with you, Mike, that was written by two classmates of mine at Hampton Roads Academy.

Standing in line marking time-
Waiting for the welfare dime
'Cause they can't buy a job
The man in the silk suit hurries by
As he catches the poor ladies' eyes
Just for fun he says "get a job"

CHORUS
That's just the way it is
Some things will never change
That's just the way it is
But don't you believe them

They say hey little boy you can't go
Where the others go
'Cause you don't look like they do
Said hey old man how can you stand
To think that way
Did you really think about it
Before you made the rules
He said, Son

CHORUS

Well they passed a law in '64
To give those who ain't got a little more
But it only goes so far
Because the law don't change another's mind
When all it sees at the hiring time
Is the line on the color bar

CHORUS

Go read Power of Six Sigma, Mike. Understand imperfection. Embrace it, quantify it, and then minimize it. But never, ever pretend that life exists without it.

- Bill

[cxt]

Mike M

You forgot that Saddam fired almost daily upon our planes patrolling the "no fly" zone.

That in and of itself was a titular "act of war."

End of story.

[Stryke]

Mike, one of the biggest problems I see you not overcoming (or not WANTING to overcome) is that we did not go to war just for WMD. And GW did not lie when he spoke of WMD in Iraq.

It is commonly perceived around the globe as the reason , it was promoted as such and has a huge effect on the US administrations credibility .

when they say it wasnt the reson it seems they mislead everyone .

I personally think it was worth it for the regime change .

I have direct contact with people in Iraq and back from Iraq. Despite what the liberal press would have you believe, the vast majority of Iraqis support us. They are really pissed off at the terrorists from inside and outside of Iraq who are doing the killing of innocents and sabotaging the power supply, water and oil refineries and pipelines

Thanks Rich , this is what i hope is the case , the big problem in all this is getting unbiased media , the days of integrity and journalisim are gone .

If the Iraqi people are behind the change and want a better way and life then it`ll be all worth while .

[mikemurphy]

You are perfectly correct in what you say. There are many of the far right who would love to spin the truth about why we went there and what is going to be the outcome. They are not there but have no problems sending others to fight a war that will end terribly even if we win.

BTW, I know that Rich thinks he has the market cornered on the Marine Corps, but we had a very interesting speaker at our school the other day who was there from day one and has just returned (now a captain). What he says is far different than the spin Rich says. I'm not saying that there are not marines out there who believe we've got this thing won, but there are those who don't buy it for a second. Yeah we conquored the country in 2 weeks, but have lost more men now that the war is over. Go figure. If everything is daisies and rainbows over there, why are we still losing men? Why were 19 Iraqi police killed yesterday?

Dream all you want Rich, but reality always wins out.

mike

[mikemurphy]

Ian,

You're not giving me much faith in the medical profession. I'm sure you are a wonderful MD, but....wow! (again)

We'll keep this brief.

<<Mike, I may stop soon, because your efforts bear so little relation to a rational argument>>

Two different worlds I guess, reality vs. idealism

<<I drive a honda. I'm recovering financially now, as I am starting to get paid for the (hard) work I do--at 30. But it's worth pointing out there was no pay for my 20 years of school and the first year of work after that, they reported my hours as "40" on my payslip because if they were honest with the numbers, it would be illegal, because it would be less than minimum wage. And you know what? Slash that to fund every possible social service and you may find that doctors, already dissatisfied with their careers, flee it in droves just like nurses are. >>

No one was saying that doctors aren't worth the money, but they do get paid well. And to say you went 21 years without pay is hard to believe. Tell us all how you managed that one.

<<Actually, you should be well aware that most people have phones. Even poor ones. I know this because doctors are inundated with forms asking them to prevent the phone company from discontinuing service on poor people with medical problems who don't pay for the service. Even if they can afford to smoke... eat junk food... or drink all day instead. Plus, most people can bum some change for calling the ambulance in 60 seconds. Most can get someone to call for them, for free, if they need it! Wouldnt you call for a stranger? Give us a break, Mike. Phone access is not what's limiting care in the USA. >>

Generalizing your arguement? Most people have phones? You ask me for numbers, well right back at you. 294 million people in this country. How many have cells???? And you know what, the homeless I see (and yes I do see them often enough) don't have cell phones. Maybe they are issued them in Virginia, but not up here.


"no money = no food"

<<Actually, you should be well aware that many poor people can afford the food they need, AND generally the rest have access to charitable aid.
I'm not saying there are no hungry people, but if you want perfect, you're living on the wrong planet. And you want to acuse ambulances of not going to pick up poor people? For Chrissake, back up the ludicrous statements with something, anything. Once again, ambulances MUST pick up everyone and anyone who calls. I once had THREE people come to the ER after sitting around in a living room, they all decided at once they might as well see what they could get for "back pain," by coming in together. Lo, a simultaneous back pain crisis! The ambulance people cannot say no. >>

I'll leave the food argument alone because it is so off the wall, but I don't have to back up the ambulence statement with numbers, as my sister is a paramedic here in MA and she has told me how they are very cautious in where they go. Just a bit of reality...again. You've have been here, you should know some of the areas I'm speaking about. I'm pretty sure this isn't a regional thing, although I can't speak for all. Once again, Virginia has proven the exception to the rule in other things, perhaps for this too.


<<Then you'd have us believe you're the worst paid individual in the united states who has not yet become homeless and starved? Puhlease. Value what you have before your dream nanny state takes it. >

I didn't even imply that, so I won't go there.

"The shelter system doesn't work if they turn away one person, so I don't really see why you think the number is important anyway."

<<Here it is... nonsense. The idea that if something isn't perfect, it's krap. No wonder the war makes you so upset! Of course civilians will die no matter how hard we work at it! Why should we even try? Did you ever have a kid fail a test? Oh, boo hoo... burn the school down and kill yourself in dispair. Cry me a river!>>

No Ian, this is the crux to the whole thing whether you want to accept it or not. The fact is that we are spending over 1 billion dollars a week in our already deficit laden country on a war in Iraq and Afghanistan. If you spent that money on things such as feeding the poor and housing the homeless, maybe you could have that "perfect" society. Who knows. The fact is we spend bad dollar after good on this awful mess and we'll never get it finished. Now, about that river....


<<No, I just can't lie in bed awake all night sobbing because the world isn't perfect yet. Somehow it's enough for me to know we do quite well>>

Sounds like you don't lie in bed sobbing for anything. You think this war is justified, why don't you enlist and give them a hand? You won't because you are doing well as you said. Just think of the good things you could do there. You could help make it a little more perfect. Nah!

<<There's something else you should be aware of out there in the real world. These people who freeze to death... they're not all people just like you who are down on their luck. Some are mentally ill people who refuse to live in a shelter. Some are people who are substance abusing. We can't save these people, not all, without roaming the streets with infrared cameras seeking people who have not sought help themselves. Again, the world isn't perfect.>>

Once again, the generalization of all the people who freeze to death. You ought to work for the government with hard facts like those. Just one person who could have been saved is enough to warrant change, don't you think doctor?

<<All this krap, Mike, and you tell Bill to "get real?" What you want is the fantasy world from star trek--no money, no poverty, everyone happily working together without incentives toward an idealistic end, everything's resolved in 1 hour or maybe the end of the season. Life's a bit more complex, and I encourage you to be a little more "glass half full," on some of these issues, and/or have specific constructive comments now and then. For example, since you were griping about it, would you mind telling me just HOW a society with limited means is supposed to provide limitless emergency service to large swaths of land which are populated by people who don't have phones yet might need an ambulance within minutes? The telepaths from "minority report" aren't an acceptable proposal.>>

What I want is money to go to us, not them. Then we can solve some domestic problems and not the rest of the worlds. The medical issues aside here, tell me how much good could have been done in the medical field doctor with all the money they have spent on this war? Those would be good facts to listen to. Don't you think?


CXT,

Ok, they fired upon us in the no-fly zone (assuming that is the truth... I don't know it is for sure), we fired back, didn't we? If that is your reasoning behind going to war with Iraq, then we should have done the same thing to N. Korea and Cuba long ago with the amount of firing across DMZ zones over the last 50 years.



Bill Sensei,


<<Mike, one of the biggest problems I see you not overcoming (or not WANTING to overcome) is that we did not go to war just for WMD.>>

Wait a minute Bill, you can't have it both ways. Either WMD was the reason or it wasn't. PLUS, it's not just me that can't overcome it, it's the rest of the world. You can try to fluff it away if you wish, but it won't go. Start accepting it.

<<And GW did not lie when he spoke of WMD in Iraq.>>

"I did not have sex with that women."

<<And yes, we ARE doing something about Sudan. We went over there, and pleaded the case to the U.N. Did France? >>

Did we really plead? Like on our hands and knees? I wonder what Colin Powell looks like when he's pleading.

Maybe we should stop wasting bandwidth on the issue of media because that's a two edged sword as well.

<<Let's not deny anything. People are getting killed. The place is a bit of a mess. But people were getting killed before, and - what's worse - they had no hope. These days, many of them have hope. I saw a pretty neat "B" movie with the boys the other day - Flight of the Phoenix . In it, there was an interesting line at a moment of truth. It spoke of the need for hope and for a direction in life. If nothing else, we all need to have and give that hope, and a process for achieving that hope.>>

The only difference Bill is that it wasn't Americans getting killed before.

mike

[RACastanet]

Ah yes, words of wisdom from the English teacher:

"conquored" (sic)

Glad we have teachers pass tests in Virginia to be sure they can spell.

Back in my corporate days, one word mispelled was all we needed to see to throw out a resume or proposal.

Also, please capitalize "marines" when you use the word as it is a proper noun. Or did you deliberately use lower case to be demeaning.

And, by the way, I made no reference to Marines...
"I have direct contact with people in Iraq and back from Iraq."
Remember, I worked for many years for an evil and profitable conglomerate, GE, and we have a number of people in the region whom I stay in touch with.

You are way too gloomy Mike. No one said this was going to be an easy or quick process. It will take time. We will prevail in spite of what the naysayers hope or believe. History will prove me to be correct.

However, if you look hard enough, you will find others like you hoping for the worst.

One indicator of the terrorists growing irrelevance is that Osama had another one of his press releases yesterday to remind the world he is still around... "Hey, don't forget me!"

Back to you...

Spell checking is encouraged. (By the way, I do not use the computer spell checker. I keep a good old fashioned dictionary on the desk. That way I can check the proper meaning and use of a word as well.)

Rich

[RACastanet]

Another new spelling from Mike:

"ambulence"

Also, Mike said: "Maybe they are issued them in Virginia, but not up here."

Yes, recycled cell phones are given away free to the homeless, battered etc. We are encouraged to donate them instead of just dropping them in the trash. Neat idea. They are limited to dialing emergency numbers only though. Also, dial 911 on any pay phone in Virginia and it will connect without putting a quarter in the slot. That may be true elsewhere.

Rich

[mikemurphy]

Rich,


<<Back in my corporate days, one word mispelled was all we needed to see to throw out a resume or proposal.>>

Well then, I guess you can correct all my spelling and I can correct all of your grammar. The comma is a wonderful thing!

<<Also, please capitalize "marines" when you use the word as it is a proper noun. Or did you deliberately use lower case to be demeaning. >>

If I was trying to demean this faction of the navy, I would do it right out in the open. I don't hide what I'm trying to say. You should know that by now.

<<And, by the way, I made no reference to Marines... >>

The implication was clear as a bell.

<<You are way too gloomy Mike. No one said this was going to be an easy or quick process. It will take time. We will prevail in spite of what the naysayers hope or believe. History will prove me to be correct. >>

Those who don't learn by history are doomed to repeat it. This has nothing to do with being gloomy. Just because we are sending our military in harm's way, doesn't mean it's automatically right. I know you think that the US government can do no wrong, but they said the same thing in Vietnam. "It will take time," and "we will prevail." History will prove you wrong as it did those that said that forty years ago.

<<However, if you look hard enough, you will find others like you hoping for the worst.>>

There you go again with the guilt thing. The only person wishing for the worst are military fanatics like yourself who just get a kick out of putting our military in action. Hey Bill, how about this for lyrics:


"Be the first one on your block
to have your boy come home in a box"

Country Joe McDonald

If the worst is wishing to get our KIDS out of there, then you are correct. I do wish for the worst.

<<One indicator of the terrorists growing irrelevance is that Osama had another one of his press releases yesterday to remind the world he is still around... "Hey, don't forget me!" >>

hmm "terrorists' " I think you mean. I guess we're just not as perfect as we think sometimes.

<<Spell checking is encouraged. (By the way, I do not use the computer spell checker. I keep a good old fashioned dictionary on the desk. That way I can check the proper meaning and use of a word as well.) >>

See if it can check on the word hypocracy.
mike

[RACastanet]

"hmm "terrorists' " I think you mean."

Good catch. You can check my grammar any time. I'm not an English teacher.

Your are testing me: "See if it can check on the word hypocracy."
You were just kidding weren't you? What do you really teach? Seriously. I am curious.

Hypocrisy (the Virginia way of spelling this word) : 1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not.

Nope, no hypocrisy here.

Thanks, Rich

[2Green]

I am not at war with Mr. Castanet or the Marines, both of whom I respect greatly. I responded only to the original posted question "what's wrong with the military?" That is all.
I expressed my opinion, and my intent not to offend anyone, and I'm pretty sure I stayed within the forum guidelines.

I do not speak for Canada or Canadians, in fact:
(please read carefully:
"It is my opinion that the vast majority of Canadians live in peace, ignorant of the fact that the US provides this peace."
I expressed this some time ago, unprompted, on Mr. Glasheen's forum.

Mr. Bush won the election not on war-support votes, but the "moral-majority"-type votes. Polls show 40-some percent of Americans oppose the war.
Please allow me to post some URL's to support my opinions. You will notice that these are Americans talking.



http://www.counterpunch.org/walsh12282004.html

http://www.techcentralstation.com/122804A.html

http://www.techcentralstation.com/122804A.html

http://www.techcentralstation.com/122804A.html

I am aware of Mr. Castanet's affiliation with the U.S Marines and I see now that my post felt like an attack on him, his friends and companions. I had not intended this, as my reply was to the original question; it was not directed toward Mr. Castanet nor any particular person.

NM