Welcome back Dave!

This is Dave Young's Forum.
Can you really bridge the gap between reality and training? Between traditional karate and real world encounters? Absolutely, we will address in this forum why this transition is necessary and critical for survival, and provide suggestions on how to do this correctly. So come in and feel welcomed, but leave your egos at the door!

Moderator: Dave Young

Welcome back Dave!

Postby gmattson » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:48 pm

Four years ago Dave tried his hand at moderating a forum and for a variety of reasons, didn't think the civilian martial art community was ready for his advice, programs or thinking.

This year at SummerFest, Dave and Roy had an opportunity to spend nearly 20 hours "on the field" with a large number of excited and willing-to-learn subjects. During his four year absence, Dave has created a complete program of civilian focused training seminars and has developed a system to work this program into our traditional based martial arts.

I'm very excited over the prospect of working with Dave and Roy in developing this "Realist Self Defense" program for the traditional martial art dojo and was even more pleased when Dave requested that I re-activate his forum so he could bring everyone "up to speed" on our plans.

I'm hoping the martial art community will keep an open mind regarding this wonderful opportunity and I'm inviting everyone to take advantage of Dave and Roy's generous offer to add their "Realist" component to our "Traditional" curriculum.
GEM
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Postby Rising Star » Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:19 pm

Welcome Back Dave!

I am looking forward to this. I had a super time participating in the seminars that Dave and Roy held and look forward to the info that will be contained in this forum. You guys certainly got me fired up at camp!

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Postby RACastanet » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:27 pm

Sounds great to me.

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Dave

Postby gmattson » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:40 pm

is back at work training this week, but he may have a chance to respond during the evenings.
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RM

Postby zak10w40 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:24 pm

I had the pleasure of attending Dave's businessman's breakfast. Great class, the skills sets, the aerobic component, the focus required -- all made for a greeat workout and training experience. WAY TOO EASY!!! :lol:
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Glad to be back!

Postby Dave Young » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:00 pm

Last week was one of the best times I have had professionally/personally in a long time. A special Thank you for all who came to my business man's breakfast, and hope you each will bring 2 new friends to our first Annual Warrior's Breaskafst next year. We will be serving, a variety of assortied foods which I hope will allow eveyrone to eat as much as they are able to......!

George and his wife were GREAT Hosts and worked hard to get things in order. For me it was great to see George, Manny, Paul, Bear, my friends from Bermuda, VanCanna and a few other friends... Roy and I had a great time.

I am excited about the new program we are working with the IUKF on delivering to their instructors. In a few weeks I will be posting the flyer for next years Summerfest Sign ups for the 3 day class we are presenting at the Summer Fest 2007. The first 40 people to register through George will have the slots. This is a class that will certified all who attend the 3 day course as RedMan Instructor's in Using protective Gear, Conducting Simulations, and the advanced Training Of Civilians.

Like all quality training you will receive a written test and have to demonstrate the proper skills in conducting high level conforntations with the use of safety coaches, training aids, props and the use of functional training weapons. Then on Sunday morning after the Warriors Breakfast we will complete our training and issue the certifications.

I met some terrific people this last week and look forward to building a solid and long lasting relationship...

This time I wil try something different in the forums....

Can you really bridge the gap between reality and training? Between traditional karate and real world encounters? Absolutely, we will address in this forum why this transition is necessary and critical for survival, and provide suggestions on how to do this correctly and MOST IMPORTANTLY SAFELY.

So come in and feel welcomed, but leave your egos at the door! I am travleing through the month of August but will check this area 3 times a week.

Thanks again for the warm welcome and God Bless!

Dave
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Postby Rising Star » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:22 am

Excellent!

George Sensei,

What do I need to do in order to ensure that Josh and I are secured for these few select slots?

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Watch this forum

Postby gmattson » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:08 am

for details. I just spoke with Dave, who promises to find the time to post the entire program summary and the time requirements for certification.

Some other interesting benefits to this program, but I'll let Dave explain.
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Postby Rick Wilson » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:56 am

Sounds like this will be a great forum. :D
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Postby Van Canna » Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:04 pm

Hi Dave,

Great to see you at camp, and I missed this forum. Glad you are back with us and working on such a great program for next year camp.
Can you really bridge the gap between reality and training? Between traditional karate and real world encounters? Absolutely, we will address in this forum why this transition is necessary and critical for survival, and provide suggestions on how to do this correctly and MOST IMPORTANTLY SAFELY.


This should be critical knowledge to be absorbed by all who even think their _ karate= potential defensive engagement on the street.

The 'enemies' will manifest in the physical, mental, criminal, civil, and financial 'clothes' _

I am sure you will cover all of this, as not many give it _ in-depth thought _ so wrapped up in 'technique' garb.

Best of luck, my friend. :)
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Postby Roy Bedard » Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:24 pm

Hi Dave,

Just wanted to chime in here regarding this forum. I explained to several people at camp that we have to be careful in sending the wrong message with the REALITY heading and what it actually means. I think we are both in agreement that our discussions are not intended to be exclusive of traditional and/or classical martial arts. Rather we hope to include everyone and in turn find value in everyone's opinion.

Our goal is to simply present a practical paradigm based upon occupational combat that by its very nature exceeds the limitations that dojo training among friends imposes on modern practitioners. We want to talk about combatives in a real way. Techniques that control,injure, incapacitate and even kill. We want to talk about the psychological components and the physiological components that real men and women experience when actually using these techniques in the field. We want to talk about empty hand techniques, knives and guns - because all martial artisits owe it to themselves to become intimately familiar with the martial side of their arts. In short, this forum wants to, in modern parlance, "keep it real"


Thus, there is going to be alot of talk about law enforcement officers and soldiers and how they test their skills daily in an endeavor which doesn't award silver medals. There is no intent to create an elitist image regarding these combat occupationalists. They are referenced because they have the unique opportunity to validate or invalidate tactics and techniques and have no need to imagine or fantasize a combat scenario. For most of them, their bullshit meter is acutely tuned up. It has to be. It's a matter of life and death.

My concern, is that some may read this forum and take immediate offense to the idea that we are suggesting that what they are doing in their art is not REAL. Consider this an early disclaimer that this not our intent at all. In fact, the combat professions owe everything to the classical martial artists for introducing the practical skills and techniques that they use daily. Though some of the techniques have been invalidated still more have been embraced and make up todays defensive tactics curriculum worldwide.

What the forum is trying to do is to tune up everyone's bullshit meter in order to detect some of the non-sensical, untested, unproven, and unvalidated ideologies that float around in the giant bouillabaisse of ideas which are born from the recesses of a wild imagination, and subsequently professed as gospel. Our mission as I see it is to present what we know to be accurate, and to support it with an examination of real events in order to present a truth that the reader can bank on.

Regardless of background or experience, everyone should feel welcome contributing something. We'll be happy to discuss personal experiences, news articles, urban leglends, and occassionally we might even humor a fanatastic story even though it doesn't pass the bullshit test.

After all, "God created man, but Colt made them equal".
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Welcome aboard Roy

Postby gmattson » Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:05 pm

I like your philosophy.... non-exclusive, non "elitist" and most importantly.... always an open door.

We should always recognize that most martial artist, after years of traditional training, own the tools. What we are trying to do, in a non-confrontational manner, is to offer assistance in teaching them how to "use" those tools.

This doesn't take anything away from your traditional training, rather it simply adds another dimension to your training. For a dojo owner, who is fighting to pay the bills, it offers something of value that quite a few of their students want.
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Postby Van Canna » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:00 am

On another forum i posted this from Tim Cartmell
I think the important point is that no single martial art is adequate to prepare the practitioner for the full range of situations that may potentially occur in a real fight.

Individuals will naturally gravitate toward those arts which best suit their individual physicality and personality, but it is vital to become well rounded enough to have constructive responses to any situation which may arise.

Almost without exception, all of the famous masters of old (those that were famous for actually fighting) trained in several different systems.

Cross training was and is the only way to truly prepare for real fighting. Remember that all styles of martial arts were founded by men who had cross-trained, and then christened their synthesis as a new style.


The tools are many along the force continuum and the tactical, mental aspects.

It is really up to the individual to make these decisions. Many don't feel the need or grasp the understanding of the self defense component. And some are told that focusing on the defensive component is paranoia.

Let's become responsible teachers.
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Yes...you are so correct...........

Postby Dave Young » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:38 am

Many times we are asked in our classes some of the same questions I am sure you are asked from your students.....

"What is the best style or technique to learn or have"....For example I am teaching a Ground Defense course here in Phoenix, AZ this week. I will have officers from all over the state, and within the correctional facilities and even the Casinos. Some are very well rounded in their own styles and training. BEFORE WE ANSWER THIS QUESTION IN OUR CLASSES....

I start out with what we call an attention getter...I have grown to call this the come to "Jesus Drill"....(You know something Van..I have found that the sooner you can bring your students to Jesus..(IN TRAINNIG OF COURSE)...the quicker they will return to you.....funny uh?)

They go through the liability forms, stretching out, put on the necessary gear and equipment then go into a room where we have safety coaches (4 to be exact) and they are asked them to get on their back and I straddle their mid section in a low mount position...then I ask them if they are ready and as soon as I hear the grunt of yes and slight nod of head...I start throwing punches....punches to their head, face, jaw, chin, back of head, side of head, and I do not stop until one of three things happen....

1. The student freezes in fear and or forgot what they would have done or wanted to do and we hear them say STOP...or after the first 60-90 seconds of the pounding they do NOTHING...we stop...ask them if they are OK, pick them up and call next!

2. The student tries something..something they were taught, something they read, something they watched on the UFC, WWE or TV, something their favorite super hero did, something they had a pre-planed thought about....if it works GREAT..(rarely it does, lower than 5% percent to be exact) we reward them by stopping the pounding...if it doesn't then we continue the pounding until they realized they have exhausted all efforts..this usually takes about 45-75 seconds in most cases.....then we stop...ask them if they are OK, pick them up and call next!

3. The student attempts a technique which works but they fail to follow through..almost like they stopped for a minute to hear the roar of the fans or gave themselves a HI-5....so after they stop the pounding, we either take their firearm or choke them into submission...then we stop...ask them if they are OK, pick them up and call next!

When everyone has been through the attention getter...we meet in the classroom, let them watch (This is great so you can limit the behind the scene remarks of hey I did what I was trained in..EVERYONE gets to see the results...some laugh, some lower their heads, some even leave..but for MOST..we have their attention for the week..

We have found this type of attention getter to be PRICELESS...it does a few things...for one if the student brought their ego into the class they quickly run into the parking lot to put it in the trunk... :rofl: lol...or they come to the REALIZATION they what they THOUGHT they knew they really didn't (THIS allows them to check their own BS Meter)..or they did it and it did work....of course it is ALWAYS great when the student does what they should have done and it works.....but again....when the moment of truth is upon you....your actions speak VOLUMES....

This learning tool has helped us clear the minds of the students to help the leaning process move a little smoother throughout the training period....

So after all that...We then answer the age old question for them," What is the best style to train in..."

Answer.."The one you remember at the time you need it...(of course we have found over the last 30 years of training, experience and research that it not only matters what you training them to do...it GREATLY MATTERS how you trained them to do it!)

As always....Van it is nice to see you on here and I hope you are well....

Dave
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Postby RACastanet » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:13 pm

Good challenge. Many things come to my mind to respond to this situation but which technique would be best would be dependent on the ability and actions of the attacker. If he/she is keeping their elbows in or merely flailing away would make a huge difference in my response.

Dave: Could you start a new thread for this scenario and see what comes up?

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