An short indictment of the education establishment.

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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by Panther »

It has been asked what I think is wrong with the current state of affairs in the education establishment. With that in mind, I start this thread. Before we continue, it must be noted that there are many contributing factors to the institutionalized ignorance that now permeates our youth. However, the question was what I think is wrong in the education establishment and therefore that is where this post will focus. Perhaps there will be more to come, depending on discussion, debate and interest. Also, please note that I have said before that teachers should be paid and treated as the valued professionals that they are and everything should be done to encourage and obtain the best teaching talent possible for the future of our nation.

<hr>

Over the last 35 years or so, the education establishment has been overrun by a modern liberal indoctrination that has disregarded the education of our future leaders for the "outcome-based goals" of insuring these children's "self-esteem". For a prime example, one needs look no further than the "Goals2000" initiative. But here I will be more specific.

An illustrative example occurred in the mid-1990s when a large group of eager American 8th graders from two hundred schools (coast-to-coast) became excited about pitting their math skills against youngsters from several other nations.

The math bee included 24,000 thirteen-year-olds from America, South Korea, the United Kingdom, Spain, Ireland and four Canadian provinces... all chosen at random and given the same 63-question exam in their native language.

It was a formidable contest, and the American kids felt primed and ready to strut their mathematical stuff! In addition to the math queries, all the students were asked to fill out a "yes-no" response to one simple statement: "I am good at math."

With typical American confidence and high self-esteem (even bravado) the American kids responded as they have been programmed to and as their teachers would have hoped. Buoyed up by the constant self-esteem and ego building in school, two-thirds of the American kids answered yes.
The emphasis on "self-esteem" (which has permeated American schools for at least three decades) was apparently ready to pay off.

Meanwhile, one of their adversaries, the South Korean youngsters, were much more guarded about their abilities... perhaps to the point where a modern American liberal would question whether their self-esteem was being jeopardized! Only one-fourth of these youngsters answered yes to that same query on competence.

Then the test began. Many questions were rather simple, even for an 8th grader. Here's one such multiple-choice question:

"Here are the ages of five children: 13, 8, 6, 4, 4. What is the average age of these children?" Now, I'm sure that even adults, long out of the classroom, would have no trouble with that one. (Obviously, you add up all the ages and divide by 5.) The answer (an average age of 7) was one of the printed choices.

How did the confident American kids do on that particular no-brainer, one which we would expect a near 100% correct response? The result was, shall we say, ego piercing. Sixty percent of the American youngsters got it wrong!

When the overall test results came in, the American's were shocked. They finished last. In an interesting paradox, the winners were the South Koreans, who had the lowest "self-esteem" score. In fact, the math scores were in inverse ratio to the self-esteem responses. The Americans had lost in math while vanquishing their opponents in self-confidence. On the other hand, the South Koreans had lost in self-esteem but won the coveted math prize.

This bears an uncanny relationship to the American Education Establishment and the attitude of many of those in charge of teaching our children. Many are self-confident, even arrogant, about their modern theories and methods of teaching, which they believe are doing an excellent job. Unfortunately, once again, self-esteem (this time of many in the teaching vocation) is challenged by the results.

Was this an isolated incident? If American children are not doing well, and they are not, are there other examples which demonstrate a shortfall in their performance? In fact, there are many, including contests that show American students regularly vanquished by youngsters from around the globe.

In February 1998, the U.S. Dept. of Education issued the discouraging results of American high school seniors in the Third International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS), a worldwide competition among 21 nations. That report stated: "U.S. twelfth graders performed below the international average and among the lowest of the 21 TIMSS countries on the assessment of mathematical general knowledge." In fact, that wasn't an exaggeration. The American students scored nineteenth out of the 21 nations, doing so poorly in math that they only outperformed students from two underdeveloped countries - Cyprus and South Africa!

But what about "general knowledge", responses that adults can relate to? After all, we were all in elementary and high school ourselves and took similar courses. One would expect today's children of the same grade level to at least have the same basic general knowledge competency that was expected when we went to school. So, let's put aside these defeats in international mental battles.

The best estimates of schoolchildren's learning skills come from the "Report Card to the Nation and the States," one of the few successful federal efforts in education. Conducted by the National Assessment of Educational Progress, the "NAEP" tests in reading, math, science, history, and geography provide biennial scores that give us a rude insight into what's really happening in American schoolrooms.

What do they show? Very simply, the results are, well... a discouraging confirmation of the ignorance across the academic spectrum.

From the American history quizzes, it is apparent that America's youth are not properly taught the story of their nation. Two out of three 17 year olds, most ready to go on to college, did not know the meaning of Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation. Less than half of the 16,000 high school seniors tested even recognized Patrick Henry's defiant challenge, "Give me liberty or give me death." Image

Even fewer teenagers knew of the existence of the War of 1812, the Marshall Plan (that saved Europe), or Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society".

Fine, but that's just history, what about science? In a nation whose future depends heavily on high technology, the high schoolers displayed a frightening ignorance in science. The majority could not figure out that a shadow cast by a rising sun would fall to the west! Only 1 in 8 of the 11th graders were judged even "adequate" on the test of Analytic Writing. AND, on a map of the world, most couldn't find Southeast Asia.

But the students are only a part of the school equation. If they aren't smart enough, or nearly as smart as their parents seem to believe, at least their teachers can hold their own in intelligence and knowledge. Right? RIGHT?

Here we are in Massachusetts, where in April of 1998, the State's department of education introduced a new examination for the licensing of would-be teachers, almost all of whom had received a bachelor's degree in education shortly before.

We'll get to the actual test in the next paragraph, but suffice it to say that it was not designed to challenge the teacher candidates at particularly high levels. But it did expect that they could at least write a lucid sentence. If so, everyone involved was disappointed. Of the 1,800 test-takers, 59 percent - basically three out of five - flunked!

The results were "abysmal" and "painful," said the state education chief, pointing out that not only were many teaching graduates unable to write complete sentences containing nouns and verbs, but their spelling was often atrocious. Released snippets of test submissions contained such spelling aberrations as "horibal," "compermise," and even "universel". Spellings, which, to any legitimate teacher or parent, should be considered affronts to both educational and literary sensibilities. These were the "wannabe" future teachers of our children...

How did Massachusetts "correct" this problem? Just as the National SAT scoring was "dumbed down by over 100 points in 1994 to compensate for lower test scores, Massachuetts simply changed the scoring criteria!

[This message has been edited by Panther (edited July 06, 2001).]
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by Panther »

Hmmm... this topic has garnered no responses... I wonder if I should let it die a slow death or just continue on with my diatribe... What the heck. Image

<hr>

How can this be? You ask... How can the previously mentioned failures in the American education establishment be possible in a nation that is the world leader in technology? If, as both international and domestic studies have shown, American youngsters are not capable in math and science, how are we, as a nation, able to maintain our high-tech dominance?

Well, the answer, as sorrowful as it may seem, is that American technology runs heavily on the skills of foreign students who regularly beat us in world competitions.

Though American pubic schools leave the mass of youngsters behind, the nation does have the finest technical institutions in the world - MIT, Cal Tech, RPI, WPI, RIT, Virginia Tech, Carnegie-Mellon -which attract top students from around the globe. While only a minute segment of our youth make it to those elite schools, foreign students take up the slack, providing the needed talent.

Overall, some 45% of the 13,000 Ph.D.'s in the hard sciences - physics, computer science, mathematics, chemistry, and engineering - are awarded each year to non-Americans, what the government calls "non-resident Aliens." In the most vital high-tech fields, computer sciences and engineering, the number of foreign students is even higher, around 50%. Apparently, failure to properly educate our own has forced us to rely on the outside world for technical expertise. (Unfortunately, no one is taking up the slack in the general education of our young, whether it is in reading, literature, the arts, or history.)

As previously stated, the world of education is in chaos for many reasons. IMNSHO, one is that the education establishment and the public harbor several misconceptions. One such distortion, advanced by educators through veiled (and sometimes not so veiled Image ) hints, is that students are underperforming because the pubic schools are made up of inner city students while the "white middle class have fled to attend private schools. That false theory couldn't be further from the truth. Of the 53 million children in grades K-12, some 47 million attend public schools. Only 1 in 9 are enrolled in private schools, mainly religiously based. The elite secular schools cater to only 2% of the school population. The reality is that in almost 9 out of 10 cases (actually 88%) white students attend public schools, showing that the tales of the "great exodus" are not quite true.

In fact, the typical public school student is that same white middle-class child, who makes up the large majority (64% overall) of enrollment and more than two-thirds when overachieving Asian Americans are added. The reality is that school failure crosses all racial, religious, ethnic, and socioeconomic lines, affecting every area, from public housing in the city to the elegant homes in our best suburbs.

The minority school dilemma does, of course exist. But in a strange anomaly, it is mainly African-American and Hispanic students (while still performing relatively poorly) who are making any progress at all! In 1971, the reading scores of seventeen-year-old African-Americans were lower than their white counterparts by 53 points. But by 1998, that difference had been reduced to only 30 points. In actuality, for those young minority children receiving a traditional education, there is no gap at all.

The Education Establishment, flush with "self-esteem", has claimed that if only we would listen to its theories and creative demands, our 88,000 elementary and high schools in 14,800 school districts would have new life. On the whole, as a society, we have agreed to cooperate and have subsequently spent billions of our hard-earned dollars to put virtually every remedy offered by the "experts", the educators, into practice.

To make up for the deficit in language skills, we have built thousands of audio language labs.

Districts have not only brought the wonders of computers into the classroom, but have paid for the all-powerful Internet access.

To integrate the districts bussing was tried... and then reverted to neighborhood schools.

To change the structure of the academic beast, we decentralized certain urban school boards.

To meet the challenge for better performance, we've implemented every new theory that the "experts" have proposed: "open classrooms, "team teaching", the "new math", and even "teacher empowerment." we have constructed "magnet schools" to draw children into specialized art, science, or math studies to escape the punishments that have been wrought by a weak curriculum. We have launched individualized charter schools to escape the system's oppressive bureaucracy. We have singled out "star teachers" and claimed their success could be replicated everywhere. We have encouraged teachers to take graduate degrees, rewarding them with fatter paychecks. To attract better talent, pay scales have increased substantially overall across the nation. In New York and New Jersey, the average classroom teacher's salary is over $50,000 per year. In Connecticut, it's over $55,000 per year. Nationwide, the average teacher's salary per year, including all those "poor" rural areas and small towns, exceeds $40,000. Given some of the nice benefits packages and a work year of approximately 180 days, teaching has become a respectably paid career... as it should be. Yet, even with that there could be more money for teachers if only Administrators weren't so often ridiculously overpaid and treated in a godly fashion. For example, the chancellor of New York City public schools receives $235,000 a year and numerous benefits, more salary than the U.S. President!

The fact is that the costs of public education are high and rising, with little to show for it. Washington, for all of its cackling about its reform program of "Goals2000", picks up only 6% of the $350 billion annually charged. The rest is paid by hard-pressed states, and by communities, which support schools through property taxes, the fastest rising levy in the nation. From 1970 to 1999, the cost of living rose some fourfold, but the cost of education went up eightfold, with the same number of students as three decades before.

What have all these reforms and (literally) trillions of dollars given us?

Have they paid off in better public school performance?

Sorry. The answer is "absolutely not." There has been no significant improvement in the quality of public education, and under present management, there seems to be little hope for the future. Goals2000 has proven to be an idle dream of naive politicians and educators.

Nothing has worked because the supposed reforms have not attacked the core of the problem: the makeup, theories, and operation of the overall Education Establishment - the 5 million "experts", from classroom teachers to state education commissioners, who constitute the near-monolithic force that virtually controls our public schools, from kindergarten through senior high school.

That Education Establishment has shown itself (overall) to be an advocate of low standards, laxity, false educational theory, and poor selection and training of teachers. It suffers from an inability to pass on the accumulated knowledge of the civilization from one generation to the next. As time passes, the mental bank account decreases, setting the specter of grave prospects for the future.



[This message has been edited by Panther (edited July 10, 2001).]
T Rose
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by T Rose »

The 'self-esteem' issue hits it right on the head. I see the same thing with kids promotionals. They expect rank without performing, almost an entitlement attitude. How can one expect self esteem without reaching goals?

Maybe we should adopt a 'tiered' educational system, much like they attempt to do now with college level or advanced classes. Have classes based on ability from objective test scores. That way C students will be with C students and A students with a students. We would then know how to allocate resources. Maybe more $$ and materials to the most needy students. More teachers per student for the C and D classes.. We all deserve the same oppurtunity but we are not all the same..
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by Panther »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T Rose:

We all deserve the same oppurtunity but we are not all the same.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Equality of opportunity, yes. Equality of outcome, no! (That is basically what "outcome-based education" is all about.) And you're quite correct, we aren't all the same. That's why some people grow up to be Major League Ball-players, some grow up to be Engineers, some grow up to be Manual Laborers, and others grow up to be... Karate Instructors! Image
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by Panther »

Shall I continue...

<hr>

It is interesting to note that parents are often fooled by a continuous onslaught of propaganda from the Education Establishment, but surprisingly enough, mature students have learned to see through the schooling charade. This was demonstrated in a nationwide study conducted by Public Agenda for the Educational Excellence Partnership (Eight organizations, from the Business Roundtable to the American Federation of Teachers). In that survey, “What American Teenagers Really Think About Their Schools,” three-fourths of the students complained that they were being short-changed – that they weren’t being given demanding enough schoolwork. They would study harder, they said, if only schools would give them more to study and tougher tests to challenge them!

The Education Establishment that I refer to is not just a recent thorn in the side of public schooling. In the 1960s, Dr. James Conant, then president of Harvard University, skeptically called the Education Establishment a “closed alliance,” whose branches controlled the operation of public schools at every level. He was accurate, but kindly, for the Education Establishment has since shown itself to be more than an “alliance.”

In reality, it is a self-protective, virtually impenetrable closed circle. It selects our future teachers, trains them in its own academies, issues them its own undergraduate and graduate degrees, certifies them at the state licensing level, hires them for our schools, evaluates and promotes them. It starts at the classroom level, goes up through the teacher union-guilds, to the principals, the school administrators, to the professors in the schools and departments of education, on to the superintendents of schools in cities and suburbs and finally it reaches the state departments of education, where the Commissioner is usually a leading figure from the Education Establishment. Thus the circle remains unbroken.

Breaking this ring of power is and has been nearly impossible. Its members have much the same backgrounds, goals, and values. They generally attend the same schools and hold the same education degrees at various levels. They also generally share the same resolve to keep “laypeople” out of the learning business, which they accomplish by binding together into a combined professional cabal and guild-labor unions. They have taken control of our schools away from the citizens, the parents, and the elected officials. But those people are not without fault or blame. Those citizens, parents and elected officials are generally naïve about education and are intentionally kept that way through the jargon and obfuscations used to overwhelm them by the Education Establishment.

In most ways, the Education Establishment is an unscholarly, anti-intellectual, antiacademic cabal which is best described as a conspiracy of ignorance, one with false theories and low academic standards. Well conceived, internally consistent, and powerful enough (thus far) to fight off any outside challenges and true change. All this at the expense of the education of our schoolchildren.

Make no mistake about it, however, that this is not a conspiracy of malice. Teachers and educators are, by and large, humane and well-meaning people. There are some well-intentioned, hard working and capable teachers in our schools. Their major sins are that they have discarded traditional scholarship as a major goal and have adopted a psychologist/social work model rather than that of the academic instructor. They will fight compulsively, even unfairly, to maintain their low standards and protect their members from the full examination that could end their monopoly control on public education.

Over the years the traditional education expanded as the nation grew, providing mass tutoring for virtually everyone. It performed well for most of the baby boomers up through the 1950s and into the 1960s, when it began changing direction and philosophy.

What happened?

Simply put, the goals, ideals, and practices of public education have been quietly, almost secretly, altered over the last three to four decades, most often without the knowledge of parents, politicians, or the community. As a result, America now has an inferior standard of learning in our public schools. Teacher training is often thin and faddish. Curriculum has been weakened, especially in our middle and secondary schools. The rigor of prior years is mainly gone. And in the mean time, Dr. Sigmund Freud has invaded the schoolhouse. The teacher has now assumed more the model of the social worker or even amateur psychologist. Not knowledge, but superior human relations, a sense of self-confidence (there’s that “self-esteem” again) and a stronger, warmer rapport among teacher, parent and child have become the new criteria.

I agree that it seems hard to fault such objectives. But today, some thirty-five years after the very soul of the classroom began to change, we see the result. We have a less apprehensive, perhaps even happier, student body, but one that is academically much weaker and less prepared for the challenges of the twenty-first century.

<hr>

(Next a list outlining the specific deficiencies that IMNSHO need essential change.)


[This message has been edited by Panther (edited July 11, 2001).]
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by Panther »

Lee, Thanks for contibuting. Before I continue with my original "train of thought", I'll address a few of your points.

<hr>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeeDarrow:

The problem is not the kids. The problem is primarily with the administrations and with the outmoded tenure system.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never said the problem was with the kids. Mike Murphy pointed out, in the thread that gave impetus to these posts, that (at least as far as the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is concerned) there isn't any more tenure. So that is a non-issue for this discussion and I have intentionally learned from that information and rethought at least one of my positions.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Administration issues - in any other business, results count. You produce or you are looking for a job.
Yes, I've covered this already to a certain degree.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Income - we pay people who cannot string a sentence together MILLIONS of dollars a year to chase a ball around a pasture, yet most teachers are hovering on the brink of poverty. What's RIGHT with THIS picture?!
I wrote in the other thread just mentioned:
"I would love it if, as a society, we would take the millions of dollars that go to professional athletes and give that money to teachers. "

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Yet, when school funding issues get floated before the taxpayers - the PARENTS of the kids - they fail more than they succeed.

How in the )(*^$ can we expect to give kids quality educations when we don't pay for quality teaching?! Or equipment? Or resources?

I am not espousing a "throw money at the problem and it will go away" attitude here. Funding is just one issue.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funding shouldn't be such an issue. Overall we are spending more and more for the education of our children and getting less and less educated children to show for it... but they "feeeeeel good about themselves"!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
When looking to fix the educational system - start at the top. Work for a goals and standards oriented school system. If a kid can't do the work, they don't pass. Remove the stigma attached to not passing and move onward.
There is a reason that there used to be a stigma associated with failing... It worked... It worked to motivate children to work harder and gain the knowledge necessary to pass. The problem used to be that children who didn't do as well were 1) sometimes neglected the needed help, 2) were often not recognized as having a legitimate problem such as dyslexia, 3) were mistreated rather than encouraged, and 4) were automatically assumed to be lazy, retarded, or both. Those were terrible, unacceptable and unreasonable treatments of those children that were tolerated for way too long. However, now the problem is that those who are truly only being lazy are allowed to slide, given excuses, allowed to slow-down the rest of the class (the dumbing down of America), and encouraged towards a "higher self-esteem".

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I have what amounts to a mathematical dyslexia, caused by two years of abusive behavior by a teacher in 5th & 6th grade. Was the teacher terminated? No. Demoted? No. Chastized? No. Was I allowed to change teachers? No. (and it was a BIG school)
This isn't the only time I've heard this type of story from someone who was in school 25, 30, or 35+ years ago... I would never deny that there were some pretty bad policies and abuses then and that those policies and abuses should have been stopped and must be prevented from reoccuring. But, the fact is that now we have a curriculum that is more concerned with "self-esteem" than it is with helping the child learn.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Accountability is a far more important issue than simply changing the kid's orientation about self-esteem.
I could take this statement a couple of ways and, depending on what is meant, I would respond with different points. So, I won't respond.




[This message has been edited by Panther (edited July 12, 2001).]
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by Panther »

(Next a list outlining the specific deficiencies that IMNSHO need essential change.)


To continue...

<hr>

As I've written this short indictment of the Education Establishment, I've realized that what is needed and what people will want to see is an outline of the specific deficiencies that are in need of essential change. No list can be all-inclusive, but this is my insight into the problems that we face as we attempt, once again, to truly educate America's youth.

Here is my listing of those deficencies and problems:

1. The licensing (what is known as “certification”) of teachers is a ritual without substance, which only requires knowledge at the lowest possible level.
2. The curriculum used to teach our children is weak. Most public schools have virtually eliminated formal history and geography and are deficient in teaching composition, grammar, and spelling as well as mathematics and science.
3. Teacher training is lax. The undergraduate degree of most teachers, usually a bachelor in education, is less substantial than an ordinary liberal arts degree. The same hollowness is true of the mater’s degrees obtained by many teachers in some schools.
4. Teacher’s unions too often operate as political organizations while masquerading as professional groups.
5. Teacher’s unions protect the most inadequate of our teachers.
6. The American schoolhouse is heavily psychologized, beginning with the educational psychology courses in teacher training up through the psychological testing and counseling of students.
7. Would-be teachers are usually self-selected from the bottom third of high school and university graduates.
8. Evidence indicates that there is no “profession” of education. Laypeople who enter the field with little or no training do as well as graduates of education schools, and often better. A fact that is also shown time and again by the high scores obtained by “home schooled” children.
9. More than any other field, education is top-heavy with administrators and bureaucrats.
10. The lack of separation between elementary and high schoolteachers, in both salary and training, makes true scholarship in secondary school difficult, if not impossible.
11. The doctor of education degree, the Ed.D. held by most school superintendents and administrators, is inferior to the traditional Ph.D. degree and requires little academic knowledge.
12. Many schools concentrate on weak students and resist enriching the education of gifted students, claiming that “tracking” is and “elitist” practice.
13. Highly educated college graduates without Education Establishment approved credentials are usually not permitted to teach in public schools, forcing them into private or college systems, and losing that superior talent.
14. The Education Establishment dislikes traditional methods and continually develops new, unproven theories of education, none of which stand the test of time.
15. Parents are regularly fooled about their children’s true abilities through blatant grade inflation, which is rampant in our schools.
16. Too many educators have low expectations for students, resulting in poor performance (especially, it seems, among minority students).
17. By promoting concepts of “self-esteem,” teachers create a false complacency among students, hindering their academic development.
18. Parents, the PTAs, and elected school board officials have all abdicated their powers to the hired help, the members of the Education Establishment.
19. State legislators, who have the ultimate power over public education, are generally ignorant about the subject, cowed by educators, and therefore neglect their duty to parents and teachers.
20. Parents and the voters have lost sight of the true issue (the lack of fundamental, basic knowledge of our children) through misleading and misguided misinformation that what the schools need are new technologies, new styles of text, and the money to pay for those things and more.

Some may find this indictment harsh. But I am convinced that the evidence exists to substantiate these charges. Merely presenting such an indictment is fruitless unless detailed recommendations on how to correct these ills can be offered. It is hoped that point-by-point recommendations can be made through discourse, discussion and debate… and that through a successful discourse, instead of a pubic education system (which has had a noble history) threatening to collapse of its own false weight, it can once again become a monument to the knowledgeable and free American people.
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by Valkenar »

Just a quick note about tracking.

While it seems reasonable to try to group the smart kids and the dumb kids, the fact is that there isn't really very much actual difference. Several studies have shown that tracking CREATES the levels rather than reflecting them. If you randomly designate students as being "honors" and others randomly as "remedial" then what happens is that the students perform according to which group they were put in.

If you want to track, you should just tell everyone that they're in the "smartest" class, and then they'll perform better. Does this sound like the kind of self-esteem pandering that is the downfall of modern education? That's one of the reasons that the schools are spending so much effort on self-esteem. Everybody learns better when they believe that they can.

Obviously it's possible to go too far, and spend so much effort on self-esteem that none is paid to the actual education.

As for teaches not having enough academic credentials, I have to say that 95% of my college professors are less proficient teachers than my high school teachers were, even though the college professors have a greater wealth of knowledge. The ability to teach is much more about honest desire to teach, and a sense or knowledge specifically about how to teach than it is about knowing every minute aspect of the subject matter.

As for the composition of the student body at top-level technical universities, the number of PHDs being given to Americans doesn't say much about what goes on in the marketplace. A graduate degree is not required for things like software development, for example. The important numbers are the undergraduates getting a BS or a BA

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
The total undergraduate enrollment at MIT during the 2000-2001 academic year was 4,258 (41% women and 59% men). 19% were from underrepresented minority groups (African-American, Mexican American, Native American, and Puerto Rican), 27% were Asian American, and 8% were international students.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Source: http://web.mit.edu/Admissions/www/undergrad/freshman/faq/enrollment.html

MIT is just one data point obviously, but they're only enrolling 8% international students. I would contend that the discrepancy at the graduate level has more to do with the valuation we give to higher education compared to other countries, than it does to the ability level of American students.

Lastly, testing is not the be-all and end-all of having high standards. Holding students to a high standard is a good idea, but that doesn't mean that implementing comprehensive testing is the solution. Tests really don't test anything except the ability to take tests.
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by Yosselle »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Originally posted by Valkenar: Tests really don't test anything except the ability to take tests.
That's patently absurd. It's also the muddle-headed rationalization for eliminating testing. The agenda here is "diversity" at the expense of excellence and hollow self-esteem for all to spare the incompetent few (or many) the embarrassment of failure. Well, failure is necessary. It builds character and provides important self-feedback so those who have failed may know how to improve. Why hold martial arts tournaments? They're just tests, after all. Testing is the most effective way to discriminate between the competent and the incompetent. Elimination of testing is a cruel disservice to everyone. It discourages excellence and it makes critical self-evaluation and improvement impossible. As you stated, kids that are told that they are smart perform better. Wouldn't they perform even better if they knew they were smart? The result of eliminating testing is an overall loss for society. This of course, is the real goal. The less skilled and educated we become as a nation, the more dependent we become on government.

Yosselle
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Steve
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by Steve »

quote (Valkenar):
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As for teaches not having enough academic credentials, I have to say that 95% of my college professors are less proficient teachers than my high school teachers were, even though the college professors have a greater wealth of knowledge. The ability to teach is much more about honest desire to teach, and a sense or knowledge specifically about how to teach than it is about knowing every minute aspect of the subject matter.
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No surprise here. My qualifications for teaching college? Bachelor degree, two Master degrees and a Doctorate. And not one class in education practice or theory, pedagogy/andragogy or any classroom mentoring! In higher education, it's sink or swim. I was 25 when I began teaching as a graduate teaching assistant - hardly qualified to teach but yet given "command" of four sections of the same course. And I am not an exception - the same holds for all other professors unless they teach education! The beauty of the higher education system is that I'm not qualified to teach k-12 education because I don't have a teaching degree. Is it any wonder that most professors are poor teachers?

If you wish to continue to bash the system, I suggest focusing on the proliferation of administrators at the expense of teachers. I have the highest respect for k-12 teachers because of what they accomplish in spite of the obstacles placed in front of them.

Finally, regarding the sense of entitlement - it is magnified 10-fold by the time students reach college. Students expect high grades for marginal or minimal output. And when they flunk, it's your (the professor's) fault, not the student's fault. We like to say that in higher education we're charged with providing a service that you've paid for but do not want delivered!!!

Jaded, but not dissuaded Image

PS Massachusetts is 47th out of 50 states in supporting public higher education on a per capita basis.
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D. Steven White
swhite@umassd.edu


[This message has been edited by Steve (edited July 12, 2001).]
Dakkon
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by Dakkon »

Just to pipe in. . .
I agree with Panther, 101%. Schools and teachers are not failing our future(kids)The administration that runs them and some parents are!
I've taked to a few teachers and they would love to teach a full rich course not a stripped down St. approved cake walk. BUT there is no $$ there to do it, or it won't be done because little Timmy's feeling might be hurt when they disect the frog or little Mary may get "upset" when she sees a photograph of a dead person.
In Fl. they studied and stressed for a solid year to get the state "FCAT" score out of the mud, they did and so they patted their self on the back. What does that mean to the kids, NOTHING just a feel good for the Administrators so they can get a fat pay raise Image
It makes me mad that a 17 year old @ McDonalds can't make change for a order with out the computer doing the math. Or sader yet that a collage grad. can't find China on a globe! I'll get off the soap box it can get ugly Image
When I was in Jr. High school in the mid-early eighties I was considered "slow" because I only wrote(spellng, grammer) on a 6th grade lvl yet I was readding and comprehending on a 12th grade lvl. Did they cuddle me, HECK NO ! I was placed in "S.L.D." for english and brought up to speed. Was there a stigma for being in "S.L.D."? You better belive it! But hey I accepted it and moved on. Not once did my "needs" or "feelings" come into play. My education was first and foremost.
Well that's enough for now....
Chuck
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LeeDarrow
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by LeeDarrow »

Let's get down to where the rubber meets the road on this one.

The problem is not the kids. The problem is primarily with the administrations and with the outmoded tenure system.

Administration issues - in any other business, results count. You produce or you are looking for a job. This impinges on two areas - teachers who don't care, are tenured and basically can't be fired and administrators who do not focus on fixing classes where results are not forthcoming.

Income - we pay people who cannot string a sentence together MILLIONS of dollars a year to chase a ball around a pasture, yet most teachers are hovering on the brink of poverty. What's RIGHT with THIS picture?!

Yet, when school funding issues get floated before the taxpayers - the PARENTS of the kids - they fail more than they succeed.

How in the )(*^$ can we expect to give kids quality educations when we don't pay for quality teaching?! Or equipment? Or resources?

I am not espousing a "throw money at the problem and it will go away" attitude here. Funding is just one issue.

Teacher and administration accountability is another. Every 6 months I get a performance review at work. If I don't measure up, my paycheck can suffer. If I really *&^( up, I may be looking for a job.

This does not happen to teachers and school administrators. Tenure, which was originally designed to protect teachers from capricious administrational terminations, has been outmoded by union protections. Unions, in general, are a good thing - virtually every job protection we have today has come from the union movements. BUT - firing a tenured teacher is almost impossible and that is supported by the Unions - even if the teacher is shown to be basically incompetent.

A bad thing.

When looking to fix the educational system - start at the top. Work for a goals and standards oriented school system. If a kid can't do the work, they don't pass. Remove the stigma attached to not passing and move onward.

I have what amounts to a mathematical dyslexia, caused by two years of abusive behavior by a teacher in 5th & 6th grade. Was the teacher terminated? No. Demoted? No. Chastized? No. Was I allowed to change teachers? No. (and it was a BIG school)

Accountability is a far more important issue than simply changing the kid's orientation about self-esteem.

Respectfully,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by Panther »

A look at the money and class sizes

The susceptible public often yields to the pressure for more money, not knowing that the Education Establishment equation that money equals performance is untrue. Teachers should be reasonably compensated for the important job we ask of them, and increasingly (as previously pointed out) they are. But it’s just as equitable for the principals and administrators to do a much better job with the money we give them.

Supposedly, the more cash poured into teaching, the greater the expansion of student minds. A tempting delusion, but nothing could be more fallacious. This is known from many sources including the higher academic performance of parochial schools. The Education Establishment dislikes such a comparison, but the fact is that parochial school expenditures per student are 40% lower than in public schools and result in a higher academic performance level.

Meanwhile, money continues to flow into pubic schools, with apparently no end in sight and little or no improvement to show for it. In 1960, Americans spent $375 a year to educate each public school pupil; $816 in 1970; $6146 in1996; and over $7000 per pupil in the 1999-2000 school year!

In inflation adjusted dollars, we are now spending two to three times more per child than in 1960, when performance was generally higher.

One of the more compelling Education Establishment arguments for more money is their continual push for smaller class sizes, one that touches parents emotionally. If only we could have more teachers and specialists, we are constantly told, performance would surely be pushed skyward. Parents shout a chorus of “amen.” Most Americans are convinced (without real facts, by the way) that the fewer children in each class the stronger the teaching. After all, what could be better than more individualized instruction? That mantra, no that shibboleth of smaller classes (the vaunted student-teacher ratio) became a national goal. To meet it, the school districts hired and hired until it hurt. And with the powerful Education Establishment unions, incompetent teachers were basically immune to strong discipline or firing.

In 1960, there were 35 million students in public schools and 1.35 million teachers. Today, propelled by the “small class” argument, the number of teachers has doubled to 2.7 million. But that explosion in teacher ranks has also seen an explosion of school administrators, from assistant principals to superintendents. These brahmins of the Education Establishment create a bloated roster of highly paid, generally unneeded, education bureaucrats. During the same time that teacher ranks were doubling, so did the administrative ranks, from 96,000 to 215,000. But that is far from the whole story… The growth of Education Establishment employees has include a vast array of support personnel. These are the reading specialists, guidance counselors, special ed teachers, clerical help, teacher’s aides, and others whose ranks have swelled from 700,000 in 1960 to over 2.5 million today, an almost fourfold increase! Looking closer at these support personnel and knowing the public school mantra of “self-esteem” and “child psychology”, it shouldn’t come as any surprise that guidance counselors, those charged with the psychological adjustment of academically understressed children numbered 17,000 in 1960. Today, however, there are over 80,000 guidance counselors, a almost five-fold increase. Overall, there is now an army of more than five million school personnel, one for every nine students.

(Since little more than half of the staff are teachers, America has one of the highest costs of education per student, but is not first in teacher salaries! Image )

The student body has not followed suit in this massive expansion. From 35 million public school pupils in 1960, the ranks have grown to only 47 million, proportionately three times less than the rise in teacher personnel. The revered student-teacher ration has naturally dropped accordingly. From an average of 27:1 in 1955, the student-teacher ratio dropped to 25:1 in 1965, then to 20:1 in 1975, and down to 17:1 today. Class sizes were reduced and students received more specialized attention. Today the average elementary class size is twenty-three, considerably lower than forty years ago when it was 30 (it was even larger before then). The Education Establishment theory of smaller classes has been implemented over the last three to four decades at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars and is now being pressed again with a vengeance.

Can we believe the mantra of smaller class size equals a better education?

If the last thirty years are any indication, apparently not.
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LeeDarrow
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An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by LeeDarrow »

Panther-san-

Thanks for the warm welcome!

You mentioned that I was not all that clear on the accountability issue and perhaps I wasn't.

To clarify, my concept of accountability in education goes in virtually all directions - an even splatter as the fewmets hit the windmill for those who have read either T.H. White or Bored of the Rings (and I mean that title literally - it's a parody).

Student accountability. A student's job is to learn, comprehend, retain and be able to use what is presented. Plain and simple.

Teacher accountability - teachers are the people primarily responsible for seeing that students do their jobs. Sort of on site managers. Their accountability should be based on student results (testing AND day-to-day logging of progress) AND as on the scene, in the trenches evaluators of the tools and programs being taught.

Administration - accountability - for teacher behavior, bad apples out, please! - for providing quality and effective programs and equipment for the students and teachers and to act as a next-level of evaluation of said programs and of teachers.

School Authority (school board, etc) accountability - for administration, overall goals (making sure students progress properly) and final review of texts, tools equipment, course programs, etc.

Hope that helps.

Standardized testing - this concept is good, but is heading toward over-reliance in Illinois. The day-to-day progress of students should also be figured into account in determining results of teaching, which means some sort of standard for grading, which is woefully missing in most school districts, nationwide. A balance between standardized tests and everyday work product of students should be taken into account.

As a hypnotherapist, I have done a lot of work with kids with "exam anxiety," which is a form of anxiety disorder. This kind of anxiety attack can take a straight A student and cause them to fail, consistantly on exams. As this problem seems to be on the rise (in my experience only, I admit), it needs to be addressed. This is one of the major problems in standardized testing.

Over a full school year period, a student is told that such-and-such a test will determine their entire life. Under that kind of pressure, very few people function at their best when the hammer comes down.

Another problem with standardized testing as I have seen it is the issue of retention. Many of these tests are focused on what was learned that year, with little reference to material from one, two or even three or more years prior. Let's face it, if you don't keep it - you didn't LEARN it!

More on this later.

Respectfully,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
Allen M.

An short indictment of the education establishment.

Post by Allen M. »

I don't give a damn about the public school systems; they are bad all over the country, some places worst than others.

The way my wife and I handled it was we took the time to "educate" our children after school hours through elementary schools. In the summertime I'd start a summer educational "project" for the both of them and work with them until they got into high school, where at least the local H.S. has a substantially high quality of education.

I'll stop here before I get going on this subject.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
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