According to this recent incident, whether true or not, it is claimed that teachers have no 1st Ammendment rights. Absolutely disgusting.
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/Stories/0,1413,206%257E22097%257E953911,00.html?search=filter
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Allen Moulton at Uechi-ryu Etcetera loves email at <A HREF="mailto:uechi@ixpres.com">uechi@ixpres.com</A>
Teachers have no First Amendment Rights
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Gene DeMambro
- Posts: 1684
- Joined: Sat Dec 12, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Weymouth, MA US of A
Teachers have no First Amendment Rights
It is already an establishd maxim that one does not have First Amendment rights in the workplace. This assumes a private (i.e not a tax-supported/public workplace).
A few years ago (c. 1994-1995), a group of California firefighters went to court to fight the State's banning of pornography (the firefighters wanted to "read" Penthouse Magazine at the station house). The Federal Appeals court ruled that since the Fire Department is a public entity, wholly supported by tax revenues, then the First Amendment does apply.
The same rule does not apply to private workplaces.
I don't know if one can be punished/disciplined/treated adversely for what one says outside of the workplace (i.e. sitting around the bar, knocking back a few cold ones or writing a letter to the editor of a newspaper). Or even for what one posts on the Internet.
But, you can be punished/disciplined/treated adversely for not belonging to the "correct" political party...
A bit un-American, if you ask me.
Gene
A few years ago (c. 1994-1995), a group of California firefighters went to court to fight the State's banning of pornography (the firefighters wanted to "read" Penthouse Magazine at the station house). The Federal Appeals court ruled that since the Fire Department is a public entity, wholly supported by tax revenues, then the First Amendment does apply.
The same rule does not apply to private workplaces.
I don't know if one can be punished/disciplined/treated adversely for what one says outside of the workplace (i.e. sitting around the bar, knocking back a few cold ones or writing a letter to the editor of a newspaper). Or even for what one posts on the Internet.
But, you can be punished/disciplined/treated adversely for not belonging to the "correct" political party...
A bit un-American, if you ask me.
Gene
Teachers have no First Amendment Rights
As folks know, I'm pretty hardcore Freedom, Liberty, and inalienable Rights. I think that all of our Rights are sacrosanct... However, when exercising Rights we must also take personal responsibility for our actions.
I was recently in a disagreement with a group where they were paying lip-service to my 1st Amendment Rights while at the same time telling me that I could only say what I wanted when it fit their agenda!
Now... I think everyone has their Right to Free Speech... I don't care what you say or how UN-PC it is. In fact, I want to hear all of people's dirty little opinions so I know exactly where they stand. But, when you become a member of a private organization or take private employment, the employer or organization and you have made an agreement. If part of that agreement is that you won't say or do certain things, then by becoming the employee or member, you've just agreed to give up that Right. If you don't like that agreement, you are free to leave membership or seek other employment. That's your freedom.
Personally, I don't care for that attitude from organizations or employers, but in reality, sometimes that's where the employment is or the membership benefits are.
Freedom of Speech is why we have/need tenured professors and teachers... supposedly.
Just food for thought...
I was recently in a disagreement with a group where they were paying lip-service to my 1st Amendment Rights while at the same time telling me that I could only say what I wanted when it fit their agenda!
Now... I think everyone has their Right to Free Speech... I don't care what you say or how UN-PC it is. In fact, I want to hear all of people's dirty little opinions so I know exactly where they stand. But, when you become a member of a private organization or take private employment, the employer or organization and you have made an agreement. If part of that agreement is that you won't say or do certain things, then by becoming the employee or member, you've just agreed to give up that Right. If you don't like that agreement, you are free to leave membership or seek other employment. That's your freedom.
Personally, I don't care for that attitude from organizations or employers, but in reality, sometimes that's where the employment is or the membership benefits are.
Freedom of Speech is why we have/need tenured professors and teachers... supposedly.
Just food for thought...
Teachers have no First Amendment Rights
In terms of speech being guided in the workplace, one of the concepts was to keep lawsuits to a minimum, I believe.
One can silence the mouth, but not the mind, heart, or spirit. It is my feeling that as the mouth is silenced more, the feelings inside grow stronger with hate and resentment.
College campuses are prime examples where there is no more free speech, or only free speech for far leftest groups and others who have an agenda.
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Allen Moulton at Uechi-ryu Etcetera loves email at <A HREF="mailto:uechi@ixpres.com">uechi@ixpres.com</A>
One can silence the mouth, but not the mind, heart, or spirit. It is my feeling that as the mouth is silenced more, the feelings inside grow stronger with hate and resentment.
College campuses are prime examples where there is no more free speech, or only free speech for far leftest groups and others who have an agenda.
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Allen Moulton at Uechi-ryu Etcetera loves email at <A HREF="mailto:uechi@ixpres.com">uechi@ixpres.com</A>
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Gene DeMambro
- Posts: 1684
- Joined: Sat Dec 12, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Weymouth, MA US of A
Teachers have no First Amendment Rights
The reason there is no Constitutinal right of Free Speech in the workplace is because The Constitution does not protect private people from other private people. The BOR only protects one from the gov't. The lawsuit issue is secondary.
There are plenty of right-leaning and right-wing colleges out there, as well.
Gene
[This message has been edited by Gene DeMambro (edited October 30, 2002).]
There are plenty of right-leaning and right-wing colleges out there, as well.
Gene
[This message has been edited by Gene DeMambro (edited October 30, 2002).]
Teachers have no First Amendment Rights
With respect to the comments at college campuses, I can speak only for my campus, but in the least year we've had:
1) Hate literature posted around campus removed, followed very quickly by messages which said "We will promote tolerance, discussion, and an understanding of all views" (and what about that comment wasn't hypocritical, i'll never know)
2) Students who on the radio played a song with hateful lyrics. They called it the "Racist Song of the Week" and pointed out its failings, however everbody forgot this as the minority involved quickly assembled vigils and protests and whatnot. The students were removed from the air, forced to tender an apology and meanwhile the rest of us had to listen to people whine how they had never understood racism before and how horrible, horrible things like this should never happen on a college campus.
My immediate response was: GROW UP. However, since I didn't want to get reamed for my comments (there's no good anonymous forum on campus), I didn't bother.
But after all of that ramble, my point is that (at least on my campus) if you're not a PC-loving left-of-center person, you're branded an outcast and your opinions aren't tolerated. It's quite sad, really.
1) Hate literature posted around campus removed, followed very quickly by messages which said "We will promote tolerance, discussion, and an understanding of all views" (and what about that comment wasn't hypocritical, i'll never know)
2) Students who on the radio played a song with hateful lyrics. They called it the "Racist Song of the Week" and pointed out its failings, however everbody forgot this as the minority involved quickly assembled vigils and protests and whatnot. The students were removed from the air, forced to tender an apology and meanwhile the rest of us had to listen to people whine how they had never understood racism before and how horrible, horrible things like this should never happen on a college campus.
My immediate response was: GROW UP. However, since I didn't want to get reamed for my comments (there's no good anonymous forum on campus), I didn't bother.
But after all of that ramble, my point is that (at least on my campus) if you're not a PC-loving left-of-center person, you're branded an outcast and your opinions aren't tolerated. It's quite sad, really.
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Gene DeMambro
- Posts: 1684
- Joined: Sat Dec 12, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Weymouth, MA US of A
Teachers have no First Amendment Rights
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
How? In what fashion are they not grown up?GROW UP
Teachers have no First Amendment Rights
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gene DeMambro:
The reason there is no Constitutinal right of Free Speech in the workplace is because The Constitution does not protect private people from other private people. The BOR only protects one from the gov't. The lawsuit issue is secondary.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True enough...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
But, I don't think having an abundance of "right-wing" colleges is any better than having and abundance of "left-wing" colleges (which we currently have)... I don't like the idea of any institution of learning pushing political agendas. People are there to learn and with the exception of philosophy, political "science", or religion, those socialist/communist/facist views whether left-wing or right-wing should be left out of the classrooms... IMNSHO...
The reason there is no Constitutinal right of Free Speech in the workplace is because The Constitution does not protect private people from other private people. The BOR only protects one from the gov't. The lawsuit issue is secondary.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True enough...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
There are some, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as "plenty"...There are plenty of right-leaning and right-wing colleges out there, as well.
But, I don't think having an abundance of "right-wing" colleges is any better than having and abundance of "left-wing" colleges (which we currently have)... I don't like the idea of any institution of learning pushing political agendas. People are there to learn and with the exception of philosophy, political "science", or religion, those socialist/communist/facist views whether left-wing or right-wing should be left out of the classrooms... IMNSHO...
