Secret Martial Societies-Is it Time?

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Thu Jan 11, 2001 9:57 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Brat:

I'm sure you are all familiar with the topic-Black Belts who can't fight.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yawn... yep, it goes through phases of being a popular topic.

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I usually laugh at the guys who say that "forms are useless" and then try to sell off "foolproof techniques" that supposedly require "no effert" to perform.

I know what you're talking about, but the people on these forums are very open-minded. You will find few who claim or believe that "forms are useless". Even the modern street scenerio stylists/advocates believe in good valid techniques... in order to practice a technique you are doing some type of "form".

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I have been to various schools with friends and seen some of the sorry excuses for martial arts that are being taught to the masses. It is pitiful.

Most people here have been to schools we didn't care for, like or agree with. Just because they weren't for us, doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose. Heck, You, I or anyone else here, might not even agree with that purpose, but then it comes down to a free market and caveat emptor.

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I recently walked into a Tae Kwon Do Kwoon with some friends who were members. It was a gymnastics class.(And by the way, Ive seen this in Kung Fu and Karate schools as well.)

My emphasis... You went to a dojang with some friends. Usually, when I've been invited to someone's martial arts school by a friend, it's been because they were excited about their new-found art, knew I studied and wanted to share, or knew I studied and wanted an opinion (before continuing with that school).

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The techniques, weapons and sparring were all emphasizing tournament competition instead of self defense. They introduced me to one of the senior students who asked me what style I studied. I told him Tai Chi(Thats just one I've studied.)

Right here, you could have said bunch of different stuff, no big deal... or said that it wasn't important... or said NOTHING. IOW, just made the decision to show a little humility.

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He began ripping on my style as being too soft and preceded to show me some ridiculus kick punch combo that was supposed to be able to thwart any move I could do.

And right here, you could have made the decision to be humble... or made the decision to just leave.

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Well I wanted to give him a shot, so I did.

Why would you want to do that? Who were you trying to prove something to, him or yourself? Com'on... If you were so confident in your capability, why couldn't you (or didn't you) just walk away? Why didn't you just say, "yeah, that's pretty awesome" and leave? I mean, really... You had multiple opportunities to leave and not "dis" your friends or their school. Why wouldn't you do that and maybe offer a friendly opinion later (IF ASKED)?

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He came at me with the move and I just moved out of the may with som evasive footwork. This occured a few more times until he said "thats ok for avoiding me butwhat about when you have to deal with the power of my attack." He ten came at me with a slightly different attack and I sidestepped again and easily blocked his attempt. Now he was really getting pissed. He began wildly throwing high kicks to my head and at the end just rushed me like a San Diego linebacker, when I had decided that enough was enough I made an evasive move to the side and when he halted and turned, struck him with a double palm strike to the chst which sent him to the floor. So much forTai Chi not having any power. I had knocked the wind out of him.

Hmmmm...

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I figured that it was time to leave.

Forgive me, but I don't see why you didn't figure that out when the "interview" started?

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The problem now is that quite a few students from that school have been trying to get ahold of me. I don't want to get in a pissing contest with that school, I can't afford it.

I've seen this many times before. I could be cold and tell you that you shouldn't have written a check if you weren't willing to fork over the cash, but that doesn't really help you.

Here's a friendly piece of advice...

Go back and apologize! Tell them you were a little hot headed and got carried away. Tell them that you know you caught the guy off guard and are sure they can all kick your @$$. Try being humble. It usually (but not always) works out better that way.

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But this is the crap I've found in so many schools accross the U.S.

We've all seen it. It's a matter of how you handle it.

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These places wil train in their classical forms and when it comes time to fight they start looking like Muhammed Ali.

Ummmm, you can think I'm nuts all you want, but I'd take Muhammed Ali in his prime backing me up in a straight fist fight over lots of martial artists! You just don't knock that many people out and become "THE Champ" without having stamina and knowing how to take a hit and even better... give one!

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Am I the only one who understands this stuff?

I don't think so... but then again, I've been wrong before.

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How I train is how I fight. And I do not consider myself a Master of anything by any means.

I'm sure you could kick my @$$ from here to next Sunday, but from reading your post, I'd agree that you aren't a "Master". True Masters show more respect, restraint and humility than that. Just MNSHO, of course...

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But the guy I macked at the kwoon was a Black Belt.

I've got a few of them... as do lots of folks on these forums. The neatest one is the one I'm wearing right now... But do you really think this custom-made Mitch Rosen leather Black Belt around my waist right now means $hit? It doesn't. And neither do any of the others around anyone's waists on these forums or in the martial arts in general. It's not the color of the belt, but the person who's wearing it. I've met plenty of "Black Belts" who were... ummmm... nevermind. (Hell, at this point in my life to say I'm "unimpressive" is most assuredly an understatement!

) I've also met plenty of folks (my best friend is one of them), who have never studied the martial arts at all and who I wouldn't go mano-y-mano with no matter how much I was offered!

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I was just usin a few simple moves that are not complicated or magical by any means.

The best techniques are the simple ones...

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So my question is this - should I "go underground" and teach?

Your technique and physical skills may be impeccable, but I would suggest that there are other areas that you might want to work on...

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I sort of feel sorry for all these guys and gals who are spending their hard earned dollars for crap. It's getting to the point where I believe that perhaps the mainstream Martial arts would best be used as a smokescreen for the real teaching. I don't know maybe I just had a good teacher.

Maybe you did have a good teacher. Why wouldn't you introduce all those guys and gals you feel sorry for to your excellent teacher and let them learn firsthand the difference in what you learned and the schools you disagree with?

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But i haven't found many yet that i would even consider up to speed with me and I am far from being a Master by any means.

Hmmmm... yes, I think there might be some areas you could work on.

[This message has been edited by Panther (edited January 11, 2001).]

Brat · Post by **Brat** » Fri Jan 12, 2001 5:58 am

I'm sure you are all familiar with the topic-Black Belts who can't fight. I usually laugh at the guys who say that "forms are useless" and then try to sell off "foolproof techniques" that supposedly require "no effert" to perform. I have been to various schools with friends and seen some of the sorry excuses for martial arts that are being taught to the masses. It is pitiful. I recently walked into a Tae Kwon Do Kwoon with some friends who were members. It was a gymnastics class.(And by the way, Ive seen this in Kung Fu and Karate schools as well.) The techniques, weapons and sparring were all emphasizing tournament competition instead of self defense. They introduced me to one of the senior students who asked me what style I studied. I told him Tai Chi(Thats just one I've studied.) He began ripping on my style as being too soft and preceded to show me some ridiculus kick punch combo that was supposed to be able to thwart any move I could do. Well I wanted to give him a shot, so I did. He came at me with the move and I just moved out of the may with som evasive footwork. This occured a few more times until he said "thats ok for avoiding me butwhat about when you have to deal with the power of my attack." He ten came at me with a slightly different attack and I sidestepped again and easily blocked his attempt. Now he was really getting pissed. He began wildly throwing high kicks to my head and at the end just rushed me like a San Diego linebacker, when I had decided that enough was enough I made an evasive move to the side and when he halted and turned, struck him with a double palm strike to the chst which sent him to the floor. So much forTai Chi not having any power. I had knocked the wind out of him. I figured that it was time to leave.
The problem now is that quite a few students from that school have been trying to get ahold of me. I don't want to get in a pissing contest with that school, I can't afford it. But this is the crap I've found in so many schools accross the U.S. These places wil train in their classical forms and when it comes time to fight they start looking like Muhammed Ali. Am I the only one who understands this stuff? How I train is how I fight. And I do not consider myself a Master of anything by any means. But the guy I macked at the kwoon was a Black Belt. I was just usin a few simple moves that are not complicated or magical by any means. So my question is this - should I "go underground" and teach? I sort of feel sorry for all these guys and gals who are spending their hard earned dollars for crap. It's getting to the point where I believe that perhaps the mainstream Martial arts would best be used as a smokescreen for the real teaching. I don't know maybe I just had a good teacher. But i haven't found many yet that i would even consider up to speed with me and I am far from being a Master by any means.

LenTesta · Post by **LenTesta** » Fri Jan 12, 2001 6:01 pm

Panther:

Excellant response!!!

Domo Aggegato

I couldn't have said it any better.

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Len Testa