<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ian:
We seem to have a lot of tolerance in this society for causing animals unnecessary pain, which is something I don't approve of.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Vegan or Carnivore... Hmmmm... I have these natural growths called "canine teeth". Their purpose is to rip and tear flesh. Being a vegitarian/vegan is a choice, but eating meat is an instinct. For me, the rarer the better... sashimi or steak tartar are just fine. However, don't think for a second that that means I tolerate causing animals unnecessary pain and suffering. I'm the rather large burly man that sits crying every time I've ever had to euthanize an animal. I'm the big, insensitive brute that refuses to euthanize a cat even though it's costing me the time to hand-feed it (30 minutes, three times a day), give it
expensive medication (on the order of $50/week) and special-order
expensive food (on the order of 2-3 $2.00 cans of food per day). I'm the nasty carnivore that pays $140 per month for my arthritic 12 year old dog's medication and my 11 year old dog's seizure medication. I don't like the idea of torturing animals to test cosmetics, but I'm just insensitive enough to think that the animal tests that produced the medications and techniques that have kept my Momma alive for the last 13 years were all completely worth it.
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1) Don't need to kill animals for food (can have a perfectly healthy diet without) and you don's miss it after a while
I guess the people that I know who've had problems on a Vegan diet were just anomolies. I know one woman who went to the doctor after being on a Vegan diet for around a year. The doctor ran tests on her and wrote her a prescription that said, "Go eat a steak, you're anemic!"
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>2) The animal suffers, then dies
3) Animals as food are wasteful (can feed 11 people with grain or one with meat)
4) Animals as food is bad for the planet (deforestation, rivers of chicken and pig poop, destruction of fish, whale etc stocks)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So. You don't really think that if every human went Vegan right this second, animals would magically stop suffering and dying? Animals would stop being food for other animals? That little "food chain" thing has been around far longer than humans have graced this cosmic hunk of debris, and yet there are still forests, still rivers, still oceans, still fish, still whales and still a planet. Perhaps the world would be a better place for humans if there only weren't any humans... Ummmm... Oops.
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5) Meat costs more
S'OK, I can pay for that stuff for my
pets, so I don't have a problem obtaining meat for my own consumption. If you don't want to purchase or harvest meat as part of your diet, that's fine. But the cost is not the issue. In fact, I noticed the other night at the grocery store that I spent more for the week's veggies than I did for the week's meat. I actually thought for a minute that I'd purchased incorrect amounts, but then looked... Yep, chicken: $.69 per pound (even has the little pop-up thingy); ground beef: $1.69 per pound (OK, a little more cause I ended up getting the leaner stuff); broccoli: $1.39 per bunch (~1#); cauliflower: $.99 per head (~1#); spinach: $1.29 for a 10oz bag... Hmmmmm... Fresh veggies aren't cheap!
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6) Vegetarian foods are usually healthier
There are a
lot of factors in health as you know from being a medical person. Eating meat doesn't necessarily mean eating healthier as shown by the varied health and diets of different cultures worldwide. Some of the healthiest peoples in the world eat meat, while some of the most emaciated don't. Then again, I'm sure that's why you said "usually".
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7) Public health problems like bovine spongiform encephalopathy, hoof and mouth, E Coli 0157, various bugs in seafood, concentration of toxins like heavy metals in animal foods, and serious antibiotic resistance problems caused by indiscriminate use of drugs not to treat infections but to maximize profit.
Ummmmm... Alar, DDT, irradiated veggies, genetically engineered plants, selective pollenation and an endless list of pesticides and other chemicals to maximize profits.
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Notice that they support fixing pets. But their ideological approach seems to be that animals aren't owned pets but companions we should coexist with more equally, much like a roommate. I wonder how they'd feel about involuntarily fixing a roommate?
I
really don't like that term... "fixing" your pet...
You're not "fixing" anything! The plumbing was working properly before the operation! Ummm... sorry. I
do believe in spaying an neutering pets to prevent overpopulation... just as I believe in harvesting certain wildlife to keep those populations under control as well.
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How can we possibly have the paternalistic power to remove their goands without their being rightfully considered pets instead of equals?
And as much as I'm doing for my pets and as much as I don't believe in unnecessarily harming animals... They are
not equals! Make no mistake about it, there
is a pecking order here and if it's a choice between my pet or one of my family members, the pet isn't going to get the $5000 kidney operation, while every penny I have will go towards keeping my loved ones safe and healthy.
I don't eat at Mickey-Ds because their beef comes from aging dairy cows that have stopped producing milk... some of which are diseased. I don't eat at Burger Fling because their beef is imported from South America where there isn't the livestock health oversight that we have in the U.S. Regardless, the indoctrination of young children into these "PC" concepts that are contrary to traditional American ways and beliefs is insidious.
Laird,
Adult/child sex is it's own "tough issue". If you want to start a thread along those lines that's fine. My thought is to try and keep the subjects from getting jumbled.
Be good to each other...