Greetings Everyone,
The following article appears in today's La Times. I am most interested in knowing your opinion on the subject.......
Particlarly telling was the following quote..."A military friend of mine quips that when the war on terrorism began, 80% of the Islamic masses hated us. Now, he says, 100% hate us. That is not the arithmetic of success." It makes me wonder how successful the war on terror is.
Are we maintaining the notion of "By Any Means necessary" such that the ends are supposed to jusitfy the means? Because if we are, are we not sinking to their level?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 2Dopinions
SOUTH POMFRET, Vt. -- In the early morning of Oct. 23, 1983, a suicide bomber crashed a truck loaded with 12,000 pounds of explosives through the security perimeter of Headquarters Battalion Landing Team 1/8 at Beirut International Airport. The resulting explosion killed 241 U.S. Marines and wounded 70 others. An almost-simultaneous suicide attack a few miles away destroyed a building occupied by French paratroopers; 58 died.
President Reagan later said he had been rendered "almost speechless by the magnitude of the loss."
At the time, Colin L. Powell was a major general, the senior military assistant to then-Secretary of Defense Caspar W. Weinberger. Writing about the events in his autobiography, Powell decried the fact that the battleship New Jersey had previously been lobbing Volkswagen-sized shells into the hills surrounding Beirut -- "as if we were softening up the beaches on some Pacific atoll."
"Since [the terrorists] could not reach the battleship, they found a more vulnerable target, the exposed Marines at the airport," Powell wrote.
Today, as the year draws to a close with the United States pressing its global fight against terrorism and preparing for combat in Iraq, the Beirut bombings of almost 20 years ago stand as a bellwether for the U.S. military and for members of the counterterrorism community.
For those who read its history, Beirut also stands as a reminder to the public that failure to think carefully about seemingly obvious policy decisions may carry a heavy price.
Beirut happened two decades before the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, brought the phrase "asymmetrical warfare" into the language. Yet much about it is painfully current: the tangled chains of command, the poor communications, the intelligence warnings that were discounted or ignored. Reagan was shown to be detached and ignorant of the complexity of foreign affairs. American policymakers were revealed as oblivious to the motivations of those they were confronting. Senior military leaders such as Powell saw their concerns brushed aside.
And what stand out most conspicuously 20 years after Beirut are the lessons not learned.
"What I saw from my perch in the Pentagon," Powell wrote about Lebanon, "was America sticking its hand into a thousand-year-old hornet's nest."
Well, the hand is back in. The "groupthink" that once allowed political and military leaders to march headstrong into the Lebanese quagmire blinds our leaders now. What is more, the tangible and rhetorical resort to "war" strengthens the hand of terrorists and opens the way to potentially ruinous fissures in American society.
At this point in any critical analysis, it is mandatory to say that terrorism is monstrous. To fail to utter this mantra is to appear to sympathize with terrorists, or to join those who excuse the Sept. 11 attacks because of U.S. policies and actions in the Middle East and elsewhere.
I believe, in fact, that terrorism -- in that it intentionally targets the innocent with no other purpose than to terrorize -- is pure evil.
That said, in the 15 months since Sept. 11, defense spending has skyrocketed, war has been waged from Afghanistan to Yemen and a new Department of Homeland Security and an old national security state have sprung to life -- though the national security establishment has a new raison d'etre.
And, as evil as terrorism is, there is a cost in all this for America. By turning the country into a fortress, we cripple our spirit and inhibit our economy. Both diplomacy and military effectiveness are incapacitated by the never-ending demands of security and "force protection."
Freedom is not, as Janis Joplin wailed, "just another word for nothing left to lose." It is the vital core of our society, responsible for most of what we treasure -- including the material things. And freedom is wounded by secrecy and the curtailment of civil liberties.
Terrorists set out to kill ordinary people at random to sow fear and destroy civilian morale. Terrorists win when we escalate our response to the level of war. U.S. interests would be better served by not always responding to terrorist attacks.
Terrorists should not be allowed to determine U.S. foreign policy, nor exert such a powerful influence over the American spirit.
There is a third way between war and surrender: Putting terrorism in its place to deny terrorists much of what they crave.
Terrorists, expert Brian Jenkins wrote in 1984 after the Lebanon attacks, "can attack anything, anywhere, anytime; governments cannot protect everything, everywhere, all the time." In other words, terrorists will always attack the least-defended target. And as long as grievances, real and perceived, persist, terrorism will persist.
To respond with military escalation and war is to create the exact state that terrorists most hope to achieve. The groupthink mode that seems so powerfully at play in the Bush administration blinds our leaders to this truth. It suppresses critical thought and silences dissidents. It also creates an illusion -- and an expectation -- of invulnerability.
Opponents of American and Western culture need not be underestimated or excused, but we should not fail to reckon the costs and risks of the path we choose. Nor should we assume there are no alternatives to the current course.
It is military professionals themselves, those who might be thought the most gung-prostitute about the war on terrorism, who are most likely to question the present course. "Killing ants" is how military leaders often describe it in private.
Moreover, Washington looks more and more like the city terrorist sympathizers are fond of describing: a mighty capital seized by fear and panic, giving free rein to aggression in the name of self-defense.
Self-defense? What's wrong with that? After all, the United States was attacked. But the United States -- its sovereign territory in its embassies and ships -- has been attacked before. In some ways, nothing is new here except the magnitude of the American loss.
The effectiveness of any action against terrorism depends on limiting our definition of terrorism to the acts of private groups and not governments, to those with no political authority or pretense of political authority.
This is an important distinction because it rejects policy arguments, however indirect, that justify the intentional targeting of the defenseless.
Second, it is essential that we tightly confine the term "terrorism." Pasting that label on everything from passive civil disobedience to environmental activism introduces the wrongheaded notion that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, allowing some to argue that even George Washington was a terrorist.
In the end, our response to terrorism must stem from clear thinking. We must reject groupthink. Osama bin Laden has his grievances: the inroads of secularism into Islam, the U.S. military presence in Saudi Arabia, the uncritical U.S. support of Israel and the supposed defense of the innocent in Iraq.
Though we must abhor Bin Laden's actions and seek to neutralize his minions, the issues should provoke introspection on our part. We must not reward the absolute evil of terrorism by stampeding into policies that ultimately work against our own interests -- not even in the name of Sept. 11.
A military friend of mine quips that when the war on terrorism began, 80% of the Islamic masses hated us. Now, he says, 100% hate us. That is not the arithmetic of success.
Today, the entire U.S. military, NATO and a large coalition of others -- a total of more than 90 nations, according to Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld -- are mobilized to fight the war on terror. We have elevated evil and amoral thugs into soldiers, the equals of our own. And our war has given aid and comfort to an illegitimate leadership, to people we should otherwise dismiss.
When Rumsfeld and other administration officials describe terrorism as the gravest threat to America, when they warn that it will last decades, they are most likely pleasing terrorists no end.
After Beirut, after the Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, after embassy bombings and countless hijackings and suicide attacks, after the blasting of the battleship Cole -- and finally, after the World Trade Center and the Pentagon -- now, the United States is recognizing "them." Indeed, the United States has virtually recognized the state of Bin Laden, declared war, and through short-term successes in military action, inadvertently increased sympathies for the terrorist "cause."
Meanwhile, the administration's fervor to eliminate terrorism raises each attack to the level of a battle victory -- thereby aiding recruitment and bolstering terrorists' credibility.
Obviously, the American government should protect American lives and interests. That is its job. But it should not be at war with terrorism as an entity, because that opens the way to reorganizing the American government in a frenzy, taking liberties from the American citizenry and threatening freedom of information and the sanctity of privacy.
And overseas, we will have recreated Beirut, providing new power and identity to those who have no legitimate claim upon them.
By William M. Arkin, William M. Arkin is a military affairs analyst who writes regularly for Opinion. E-mail: warkin@igc.org.
What is the Best Way to Handle Terrorism?
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Akil Todd Harvey
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What is the Best Way to Handle Terrorism?
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No way! The War on Terrorism is a great idea! It's a lot like the War on Drugs. Both consist of mainly ferreting out and destroying enemies that don't have a central location we can attack? And since that's going so well... oh... wait.
Maybe declaring war on anything other than another country just means that we're committing ourselves to a lot of vigorous saber-rattling and money-wasting.
I hope I don't live to see the day 9:11 is enshrined in a counterculture the way 4:20 is.
Maybe declaring war on anything other than another country just means that we're committing ourselves to a lot of vigorous saber-rattling and money-wasting.
I hope I don't live to see the day 9:11 is enshrined in a counterculture the way 4:20 is.
-
Akil Todd Harvey
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- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Does it concern anyone besides me that the latest war attempt on Iraq, follows resupply of Saddam with weapons by all these western companies and countries, since the original Gulf War.
It seems ironic that going after Saddam - a bad man, but one not well associated with terrorism against anyone besides his own people and whom we supported when he did our bidding under prior republican administrations - places our troups in innumerable Muslim countries in which they are, it would seem, vulnerable to terrorism from an enemy that as you say, Justin, "don't have a central location".
Personally, I dont mind going after Saddam and regime change in this instance as long as we can continue to make the same calls in other highly undemocratic nations. Let us make the fight for democracy in every nation, regardless of their mineral riches and then I will know this war was not about oil.
The freedoms that we have and those we have recently lost and will have to fight to regain, are those same freedoms that people around the world are fighting to win for themselves. If we just stand by, as a nation, and do little or nothing as they struggle to determine their own destiny, we should hardly be surpirsed that their volatility spills over into our world. Our world is connected to their world. We burn the oil that comes out of their ground. We want our oil cheap so we can have a 6 or an 8 liter engine (8 or 12 cylender) and get oil at a good price, the average joe (or ahmed) over there just wants his arabic MTV, a toyota, a roof over his head, a wife to make some chillens, and an AK so nobody takes his stuff. Sounds like good old fashioned American family values to me.
It is no coincidence that all these ARAB countries is dictatorships, is it? They all lock up their women and they is all terrorists, right? ARAB or Muslim culture is incompatible with democracy, right?
Interesting logic there, but need I remind you that Pakistan, Bangladesh, & Indonesia all have one thing in common. They all have had women heads of state, although not without controversy, but still something that cannot be said of the US, Britain maybe, but not us.
Mathematically, the number of Muslims who are militant is a minute percentage, a blip on the radar, otherwise filled with peace loving, mind their own beasewax Muslims. Hopefully, the newest intelligence agencies will be able to ferret out the few extremists while meeting out the least amount of injustice to the rest.
A common idea I hear either directly or indirectly is the argument that Muslims or Arabs either do not want or are incapable of having democracy, slighting the religion of Islam as being incompatible with Peace or the Arab culture, which while ferocity may be one of its traits, it is one shared by other cultures admired such as the Romans and Greeks, well recorded as being highly aggressive and fierce.
Are we afraid of the competition from the Arab world if we let their people get a greater share of the fruits of their resources and thus develop stronger local economies? Or are we just a little too greedy for our own good, insisting that the "Third World" not only supply the natural resources as they did in the last century, but also the finished & manufactured goods and a greater share of the wealth.
You've been co-opted but you are probably not sharing in the fruits as much as you should. Have you noticed what has happened to the American middle class? It is shrinking to the miniscule size that it is in most of the developing world. Plenty of fat cat CEO's buying new yachts while you and me with the college degree have less employment security, non-portable retirement plans, a lack of health insurance if you lose your job, and most of us is just livin from paycheck to paycheck.
While it aint quite that bad, I would feel a lot better if this administration were trying to get us out of this recession with some real infrastructure improvements that could make us the envy of the world again, not its laughing stock.
Why would they laugh at us? Energy independence. If there was any country that could come out of the 20th century and try to make real inroads into energy independece, it is us, the richest nation in the world.
Transporation infrastructure. I live in Southern Caliufornia. Dont tell me we are successful in this area until my wife can get to work in under 2 hours without leaving at 4 or 5 am.
Education. Mass education is what it is and we treat it like mass production, cookie cutter fashion. Too few options, too much pidgeon holing. Money does not solve a problem, but every kid in a school is a human resource that must not be wasted. Think like an economist, it may cost more for an education with rich and diverse set of experiences now, but that may be cheaper than jailing em for a lifetime later.
Call me a liberal conservative middle of the road outlier who is both optimistic and pessimistic while trying to be realistic about the predicament I find myself in. I am patriotic, but not idiotic, I am product of this world and as such most show allegiance to all people of the world. I seek not to harm anyone, while standing up for what is right and dismissing what is wrong, I am can hardly stand by when anyone is being thrown from their home for a crime they did not commit by their govt or any other.
Who was it who said that we have not changed, but everything else has? God help us all to all get along on this planet, all 6+ billion of us.....I kinda like this place.....and its people....too bad we all cant just get along...ATH
It seems ironic that going after Saddam - a bad man, but one not well associated with terrorism against anyone besides his own people and whom we supported when he did our bidding under prior republican administrations - places our troups in innumerable Muslim countries in which they are, it would seem, vulnerable to terrorism from an enemy that as you say, Justin, "don't have a central location".
Personally, I dont mind going after Saddam and regime change in this instance as long as we can continue to make the same calls in other highly undemocratic nations. Let us make the fight for democracy in every nation, regardless of their mineral riches and then I will know this war was not about oil.
The freedoms that we have and those we have recently lost and will have to fight to regain, are those same freedoms that people around the world are fighting to win for themselves. If we just stand by, as a nation, and do little or nothing as they struggle to determine their own destiny, we should hardly be surpirsed that their volatility spills over into our world. Our world is connected to their world. We burn the oil that comes out of their ground. We want our oil cheap so we can have a 6 or an 8 liter engine (8 or 12 cylender) and get oil at a good price, the average joe (or ahmed) over there just wants his arabic MTV, a toyota, a roof over his head, a wife to make some chillens, and an AK so nobody takes his stuff. Sounds like good old fashioned American family values to me.
It is no coincidence that all these ARAB countries is dictatorships, is it? They all lock up their women and they is all terrorists, right? ARAB or Muslim culture is incompatible with democracy, right?
Interesting logic there, but need I remind you that Pakistan, Bangladesh, & Indonesia all have one thing in common. They all have had women heads of state, although not without controversy, but still something that cannot be said of the US, Britain maybe, but not us.
Mathematically, the number of Muslims who are militant is a minute percentage, a blip on the radar, otherwise filled with peace loving, mind their own beasewax Muslims. Hopefully, the newest intelligence agencies will be able to ferret out the few extremists while meeting out the least amount of injustice to the rest.
A common idea I hear either directly or indirectly is the argument that Muslims or Arabs either do not want or are incapable of having democracy, slighting the religion of Islam as being incompatible with Peace or the Arab culture, which while ferocity may be one of its traits, it is one shared by other cultures admired such as the Romans and Greeks, well recorded as being highly aggressive and fierce.
Are we afraid of the competition from the Arab world if we let their people get a greater share of the fruits of their resources and thus develop stronger local economies? Or are we just a little too greedy for our own good, insisting that the "Third World" not only supply the natural resources as they did in the last century, but also the finished & manufactured goods and a greater share of the wealth.
You've been co-opted but you are probably not sharing in the fruits as much as you should. Have you noticed what has happened to the American middle class? It is shrinking to the miniscule size that it is in most of the developing world. Plenty of fat cat CEO's buying new yachts while you and me with the college degree have less employment security, non-portable retirement plans, a lack of health insurance if you lose your job, and most of us is just livin from paycheck to paycheck.
While it aint quite that bad, I would feel a lot better if this administration were trying to get us out of this recession with some real infrastructure improvements that could make us the envy of the world again, not its laughing stock.
Why would they laugh at us? Energy independence. If there was any country that could come out of the 20th century and try to make real inroads into energy independece, it is us, the richest nation in the world.
Transporation infrastructure. I live in Southern Caliufornia. Dont tell me we are successful in this area until my wife can get to work in under 2 hours without leaving at 4 or 5 am.
Education. Mass education is what it is and we treat it like mass production, cookie cutter fashion. Too few options, too much pidgeon holing. Money does not solve a problem, but every kid in a school is a human resource that must not be wasted. Think like an economist, it may cost more for an education with rich and diverse set of experiences now, but that may be cheaper than jailing em for a lifetime later.
Call me a liberal conservative middle of the road outlier who is both optimistic and pessimistic while trying to be realistic about the predicament I find myself in. I am patriotic, but not idiotic, I am product of this world and as such most show allegiance to all people of the world. I seek not to harm anyone, while standing up for what is right and dismissing what is wrong, I am can hardly stand by when anyone is being thrown from their home for a crime they did not commit by their govt or any other.
Who was it who said that we have not changed, but everything else has? God help us all to all get along on this planet, all 6+ billion of us.....I kinda like this place.....and its people....too bad we all cant just get along...ATH
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
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Akil Todd Harvey
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Sorry, the server was slow and it got posted multiple times...moderator feel free to ban me please....no, just kidding, but feel free to eliminate the redundant posts.....I take enough server space up already, I think....ATH
Last edited by Akil Todd Harvey on Tue Dec 31, 2002 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
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Akil Todd Harvey
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- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
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Mistaken reposting, please ovelook
Last edited by Akil Todd Harvey on Tue Dec 31, 2002 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
Moderator's note:
You can delete your own redundant messages. Simply click the icon to edit the message and then check the "delete this message" box and submit.
Now back to your regularly scheduled discussions...
BTW... I have never banned anyone for anything from this forum and it'd have to be a heck of a lot worse than a posting hiccup!
Besides... sometimes you learn more from a second or third reading. 
Now back to your regularly scheduled discussions...
BTW... I have never banned anyone for anything from this forum and it'd have to be a heck of a lot worse than a posting hiccup!
Besides... sometimes you learn more from a second or third reading. -
Akil Todd Harvey
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
- Contact:
Panther,
Glad to see you here in the new Year. I tried what you said for deleting and was unsuccessful. I knew I saw a delete button the other day and have not been able to find it since. Both this forum and my wife's (based on a similar design) have been working a little funny lately....
Like on this thread, it says Valkenar made the last posting, which is not the case......
I will be patient......I guess I was not so much calling to be banned, but was interested in the policy on banning here. On my wife's site we try to ban as few people as possible. I think it has only happened once, but the shock waves that even a single banning have can be tremendous. We dont ban for life and we always issue a warning first......
Ever hear of the soft banning? That's where the administrator changes the person's password without telling someone, and them leave's them to their devices.
Hard will be defeated by half hard-half soft, half hard-half soft will be defeated by soft and soft will be defeated by hard.....
ATH
Glad to see you here in the new Year. I tried what you said for deleting and was unsuccessful. I knew I saw a delete button the other day and have not been able to find it since. Both this forum and my wife's (based on a similar design) have been working a little funny lately....
Like on this thread, it says Valkenar made the last posting, which is not the case......
I will be patient......I guess I was not so much calling to be banned, but was interested in the policy on banning here. On my wife's site we try to ban as few people as possible. I think it has only happened once, but the shock waves that even a single banning have can be tremendous. We dont ban for life and we always issue a warning first......
Ever hear of the soft banning? That's where the administrator changes the person's password without telling someone, and them leave's them to their devices.
Hard will be defeated by half hard-half soft, half hard-half soft will be defeated by soft and soft will be defeated by hard.....
ATH
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
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Akil Todd Harvey
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
- Contact:
Panther,
You may notice that, despite the fact that new posts have been made in your discussion area, you could not tell by looking at the tab to the left of the listing of all the different discussion areas....not a complaint, an observation
ATH
You may notice that, despite the fact that new posts have been made in your discussion area, you could not tell by looking at the tab to the left of the listing of all the different discussion areas....not a complaint, an observation
ATH
Last edited by Akil Todd Harvey on Wed Jan 01, 2003 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
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Akil Todd Harvey
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
- Contact:
Panther,
Glad to see you here in the new Year. I tried what you said for deleting and was unsuccessful. I knew I saw a delete button the other day and have not been able to find it since. Both this forum and my wife's (based on a similar design) have been working a little funny lately....
Like on this thread, it says Valkenar made the last posting, which is not the case......
I will be patient......I guess I was not so much calling to be banned, but was interested in the policy on banning here. On my wife's site we try to ban as few people as possible. I think it has only happened once, but the shock waves that even a single banning have can be tremendous. We dont ban for life and we always issue a warning first......
Ever hear of the soft banning? That's where the administrator changes the person's password without telling someone, and them leave's them to their devices.
Hard will be defeated by half hard-half soft, half hard-half soft will be defeated by soft and soft will be defeated by hard.....
ATH
Glad to see you here in the new Year. I tried what you said for deleting and was unsuccessful. I knew I saw a delete button the other day and have not been able to find it since. Both this forum and my wife's (based on a similar design) have been working a little funny lately....
Like on this thread, it says Valkenar made the last posting, which is not the case......
I will be patient......I guess I was not so much calling to be banned, but was interested in the policy on banning here. On my wife's site we try to ban as few people as possible. I think it has only happened once, but the shock waves that even a single banning have can be tremendous. We dont ban for life and we always issue a warning first......
Ever hear of the soft banning? That's where the administrator changes the person's password without telling someone, and them leave's them to their devices.
Hard will be defeated by half hard-half soft, half hard-half soft will be defeated by soft and soft will be defeated by hard.....
ATH
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
-
Akil Todd Harvey
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
- Contact:
Panther,
Glad to see you here in the new Year. I tried what you said for deleting and was unsuccessful. I knew I saw a delete button the other day and have not been able to find it since. Both this forum and my wife's (based on a similar design) have been working a little funny lately....
Like on this thread, it says Valkenar made the last posting, which is not the case......
I will be patient......I guess I was not so much calling to be banned, but was interested in the policy on banning here. On my wife's site we try to ban as few people as possible. I think it has only happened once, but the shock waves that even a single banning have can be tremendous. We dont ban for life and we always issue a warning first......
Ever hear of the soft banning? That's where the administrator changes the person's password without telling someone, and them leave's them to their devices.
Hard will be defeated by half hard-half soft, half hard-half soft will be defeated by soft and soft will be defeated by hard.....
ATH
Glad to see you here in the new Year. I tried what you said for deleting and was unsuccessful. I knew I saw a delete button the other day and have not been able to find it since. Both this forum and my wife's (based on a similar design) have been working a little funny lately....
Like on this thread, it says Valkenar made the last posting, which is not the case......
I will be patient......I guess I was not so much calling to be banned, but was interested in the policy on banning here. On my wife's site we try to ban as few people as possible. I think it has only happened once, but the shock waves that even a single banning have can be tremendous. We dont ban for life and we always issue a warning first......
Ever hear of the soft banning? That's where the administrator changes the person's password without telling someone, and them leave's them to their devices.
Hard will be defeated by half hard-half soft, half hard-half soft will be defeated by soft and soft will be defeated by hard.....
ATH
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
-
Akil Todd Harvey
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
- Contact:
Panther,
Glad to see you here in the new Year. I tried what you said for deleting and was unsuccessful. I knew I saw a delete button the other day and have not been able to find it since. Both this forum and my wife's (based on a similar design) have been working a little funny lately....
Like on this thread, it says Valkenar made the last posting, which is not the case......
I will be patient......I guess I was not so much calling to be banned, but was interested in the policy on banning here. On my wife's site we try to ban as few people as possible. I think it has only happened once, but the shock waves that even a single banning have can be tremendous. We dont ban for life and we always issue a warning first......
Ever hear of the soft banning? That's where the administrator changes the person's password without telling someone, and them leave's them to their devices.
Hard will be defeated by half hard-half soft, half hard-half soft will be defeated by soft and soft will be defeated by hard.....
ATH
Glad to see you here in the new Year. I tried what you said for deleting and was unsuccessful. I knew I saw a delete button the other day and have not been able to find it since. Both this forum and my wife's (based on a similar design) have been working a little funny lately....
Like on this thread, it says Valkenar made the last posting, which is not the case......
I will be patient......I guess I was not so much calling to be banned, but was interested in the policy on banning here. On my wife's site we try to ban as few people as possible. I think it has only happened once, but the shock waves that even a single banning have can be tremendous. We dont ban for life and we always issue a warning first......
Ever hear of the soft banning? That's where the administrator changes the person's password without telling someone, and them leave's them to their devices.
Hard will be defeated by half hard-half soft, half hard-half soft will be defeated by soft and soft will be defeated by hard.....
ATH
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
-
Akil Todd Harvey
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
- Contact:
Panther,
please help delete, it wont work for me
ATH
please help delete, it wont work for me
ATH
Last edited by Akil Todd Harvey on Wed Jan 01, 2003 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
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Akil Todd Harvey
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
- Contact:
Panther,
Please......I know its repetitive......but I cant delete them myself, at least I dont think I can......Perhaps I need top visualize myself deleting these reptititve posts.....
ATH
Please......I know its repetitive......but I cant delete them myself, at least I dont think I can......Perhaps I need top visualize myself deleting these reptititve posts.....
ATH
Last edited by Akil Todd Harvey on Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
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Leon DaDamaga
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approximately four months ago Chavez(Of Venezuala), was ousted from power for 7 days. The FIRST thing his successor said was, "we will no longer ship oil and gas to Cuba(Strange thing to say)". Now GWB has a stiffy for Saddam and Venezuala is in turmoil again. If this isn't an oil war, then why was GWB in Fort McMurray, Alberta, this summer?
They need to know that we will not eat the bullshit they attempt to feed us.
www.syncrude.com
www.suncor.com
They need to know that we will not eat the bullshit they attempt to feed us.
www.syncrude.com
www.suncor.com
