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 Post subject: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:25 pm
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Location: Ma.
There is a web site called howtofightnow.com
It is run by a MMA person name "Trav"
If you google the website you will see his videos and techniques.

Trav recently did a series on "How to fight multiple attackers".
It was pretty interesting.. He advocated of course not to get into
a fight with a gang, using weapons if you can etc. He stressed protecting
the flanks and not getting swarmed. Now Trav isn't saying that his
way is the only way. He demonstrates a control clinch using his opponent
as a shield while he hits him with some vicious knees.

My questions to all is "How would *YOUR* explosive strikes stand up in a situation like that"?
Watch the videos of a group attacking a single person. You can find tons of videos (real life) on YouTube. I was amazed at the one Trav posted how many times this gang of teens hit their victim and the victim not only stayed on his feet but was able to run away.

T.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:47 pm 
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Being involved in a multiple attack is not what anyone , even a good martial artist, wants. The ability to strike fast and hard, simply gives you better odds of survival, when attacked. Hopefully, this ability is not what the attackers want to deal with. Hopefully, they decide not to tangle with this person. Hopefully ,this allows you to get out of there. Hopefully ,you are not injured. Hopefully, you never have to deal with this situation. I don't know if there really is a good answer to "what would you do if"? HOPEFULLY. Thanks for the post Tracy. ----Art

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Ma.
Here are two videos that were in "Trav's" original post:

Video #1: http://howtofightnow.com/fighting-multi ... -examples/


"The second video shows us one of the cardinal rules of fighting... NEVER TURN YOUR BACK.

The fight is never over, until you are dead, or until the other guys are incapacitated. If you think that you can walk away in the middle of a bout, you are wrong.

If you make this mistake, you might end up bleeding on a curb getting stomped on... this kid learns the hard way." (Trav)

Video #2: http://howtofightnow.com/fighting-multi ... xamples-2/

(T)
There are opportunities here for fighting back. The strikes you throw have to be fast effective and devastating! No one wants to fight multiple attackers but man does this really highlight the need for explosive over the top power or what? So how would *YOUR* explosive power hold up? What strike is your " go to the bank with" strike? Is it on 'the uechi wheel'?


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:25 pm
Posts: 299
I posted a few things on knowing what you are comfortable with. Knowing what you can deliver in a blink, and hit hard with it. When attacked, you do not want to be figuring out what you should fire. Keeping everything in your wheelhouse is a must. I trust my leg thrusts to cause a lot of damage. They hit fast and very hard. They stay low allowing the hands to come off the impact. I will go to this because I'm very confident in it, and I've been there with it. I feel I can move from one target to another quickly with these leg thrusts. They tend to cause a great deal of damage fast. No one really knows what to expect in a multiple attack, but this is what I am most comfortable with. You train hard and hope it's enough to pull you through a tough situation.

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Art Rabesa


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:10 pm 
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Yes -- these leg thrusts are on the Uechi Wheel on my web site.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:25 pm
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Location: Ma.
Here is a video clip using clinching...


http://howtofightnow.com/how-to-fight-m ... -1/?gw=fma

Comments?

One thing he does well here is to keep moving. "Move through the hit hit through the move "


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:25 pm
Posts: 299
It's all good. There are many ways to look at defending against more than one attacker. This clip shows this method - which is good. Clamping down on the head and holding your elbows in is a method I use for infighting. I liked what I saw on this clip. You are correct about continuing to move. That is very important in a multiple situation. The knee strike is a powerful strike, There is no doubt about it's stopping power. Thanks for the clip. I like it.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Ma.
The idea of fighting a gang (or even one or two) is such a reality check.
When was the last time most of us worked a heavy bag or pads? It is
What Van Sensei terms the denial factor. You watch this video and see the oppurtunity
for a decisive blow... Are you fast enough, powerful enough.. Is your technique clean enough..
Most important are you confident enough to attack the attackers..
This is why Mr. R's website and teaching are so crucial to training.
When reality happens how would you measure up?


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:06 pm 
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It's what I do. Reality can be a B@#$H. That's what I train for and teach.Thanks Tracy.

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Art Rabesa


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Ma.
LOl.
Sorry Mr. R. I didn't mean you as in Mr. Rabesa I meant 'you' as in the rest of us!
I've been hit by you ( multiple times since I was a teenager). I have no question how *you*
Would do LOL.

With deepest respect
T.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 31482
This kind of thread always perks up my interest because I was lucky enough to survive an attack by five/six punks_ armed with blunt weapons_ when a teenager. [fortunately, no blades]

What I read here is all good and very good advice helpful in surviving such beastly attacks. And here is more reading that will be an eye opener...by our dear friend Rory Miller...
http://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2013 ... art-i.html

A few snippets
Quote:
*Multiple opponents? Standing or on the ground, multiple opponents ******. I'll tell you right now that my plan in a big riot was always to find the biggest bad guy I could and cross choke him out and hide under his body. That's a grappling application in a worst-case multiple attacker scenario. Context is critical.

Weapons ******, too. Grappling against a blade ***** on unbelievable levels... but so does stand-up against a knife.

*Here's the deal. The guy will be bigger and stronger than you. IF IT IS SELF-DEFENSE. He will have size, strength, surprise, weapons, and/or be crazy. This is self-defense, not Thanksgiving Dinner at Grandma's.

* Voluntary grappling is almost always a bad idea for SD-- when the goal is to escape, sacrificing mobility has a huge cost.

*The physics of fighting to escape are different from the physics of fighting to win, and this is worth practicing as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:48 pm 
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And here are some of my own personal views for whatever they are worth:

> As we train on a dojo floor and think multiple attackers...think you will be facing 'deadly force' _ something you have probably never been up against before_ and I'll guarantee that you will become a completely different person at that moment with the survival instinct kicking in and in the throes of the fight or flight reflex.
Quote:
Simple fact is that even the best sport or martial application you have seen doesn't rise to the level of complexity and ferocity of real violence.
_Rory Miller

One particular potentially deadly consequence of the adrenal surge is 'tunnel vision' despite the belief and practice in the dojo to 'expand your vision' in sanchin so you can see 'almost behind you'_

This means the longer you remain in the attackers' group doing your techniques of doom_ the more you will not be able to deal with attackers coming at you from 'angles'_ <

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:39 pm 
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Rather than fixating on dojo practice of techniques [something we should do anyway and always] ...when thinking about surviving multiple opponents [you are likely about to die or become a quad] mindset those training moments at becoming 'another you' - a person you may not like.

I have written about this for years on my forum: at the onset of a violent dangerous emergency where life or limb is directly threatened, your subconscious mind takes over and whatever deep programming exists at the subconscious level is what will guide your survival reactions.

The reason why, as good as all those seminars you attend where you are shown different techniques for one attack or the other or 'different ways' ...are_ unless you practice them assiduously and make them part of your subconscious ...the chances of those things you learned surfacing at the moment of 'do or die' are very slim.

But more important you need to discover if you have inside of you the traits of 'fury and ruthlessness'...the sense of violent retaliatory anger and violence that will trigger automatically...when up against DEADLY FORCE_

Remember...multiple attackers, armed or unarmed, ARE deadly force in the eyes of the law.

In an improper prepared individual ...when under potential deadly attack...[I wonder how many think 'multiple attackers' is not a potentially deadly attack]
shock, surprise and helplessness are normally felt.

Most readers won't like this...but your training must include, along with your techniques, the cultivation of 'prolonged' indignant anger, visualizing multiple attackers scenarios.

We are looking for serious mental conditioning that has truly 'taken' in your subconscious and not just a moment's rage.

We also need to practice, along with that, the proper physical actions that the goal requires.

One of the aspects you will need to develop[ and here is where Art Rabesa shines] is the type of explosive empty handed power that leads to incapacitation plus the deployment of some sort of weapon always with you.

Don't make the mistake of believing that you can always survive multiple attackers with your empty hands techniques alone.

I survived my attack by ripping off a weapon off one of the attackers' and using it against him with near fatal results which mostly froze the rest allowing me to escape.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:46 am 
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:25 pm
Posts: 299
I know your situation in South America when you were a teenager. Those other kids must have thought you were a wild beast. That, by the way, is what we both refer to when we speak of being attacked. I've talked about flipping the switch. There has to be that wild rabid beast in us when we are set upon by others. Our training is there to join that wild beast in defending yourself. This is something that I do not like to discuss, but it is vital in the mindset of a victim. I do not actually teach this Jeckel and Hyde demeanor, but there is a hidden meaning. All bets are off when you are attacked. Rules and the law be damn. I'm not a very nice guy when I flip that switch - believe me. How is this taught? Maybe it should never be taught. I never flipped that switch in any of the fights in competition for many years. The arena tells the story. A controlled , competitive, match vs. a multiple uncontrolled assault. The difference is like night and day. You must be able to change with the arena you now find yourself in. If you can't, you will be history. This does not make you a dangerous person, but someone who is able to adapt to the arena you find yourself in. Does this make sense? I really hope it does. Hopefully, I won't have to talk about that switch again. ------Happy Trails -----Art

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Attackers!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:36 am 
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Yup_ the FLIP_ difficult to talk, and to teach, and to even visualize ...and something that will make many students cringe when brought up in a class format or even to think of it. There have been some interesting discussions in the past about group attacks on my forum, with many people coming forth with their experiences from which to learn.

Many people don't talk about it, but out of any group of students there will be one or two who experienced a group assault.

My good friend Laird spoke of it on a ship where he was working, if I recall correctly...but the most terrifying was the one experienced by our friend 'Panther' who used to be very active on my page and once had his own forum as well.

To read Panther's rendition of the attack and of his survival only by his ruthless ferocity and vicious animalistic 'kill or die' mindset at that moment, I wish I could find that old thread.

And we also discussed once the group ambush upon two Uechi friends in a dark parking lot in Brockton, where one of them was dragged in the middle of the street at night being kicked and stomped while one of the punks was saying 'why don't we just shoot this mother f!@@'

I personally feel that a student must come to grips with this most critical aspect of survival when under attack by multiple opponents where you can easily die or worse, such as becoming a quadriplegic.

Our friend Rory Miller covers this in his teaching material very well and there is an article here about Violence and the Triune Brain that is very interesting to read:
http://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2011 ... brain.html

it is essential that the normal , decent human being who undertakes the study of self defense and close quarters combat, needs to ingrain a ruthless philosophy when called upon to survive such attacks.

Here's Rory
Quote:
Saying the words is one thing. Practicing the techniques (which boil down to cheating at an astronomical level) and giving yourself permission to do things that violate your monkey protocols... without those pieces it's all just words.

You can utterly destroy bigger, stronger and better trained people... but you can't outfight them. Those are qualitatively different things.

And as long as you are in your monkey brain and can't flip the switch (to either human for skill or lizard for ferocity, or both for something really special) you WILL be trying to fight as communication and, against a predator, you will lose.


I find that not too many people grasp this concept.

Image

Criminals have no problem with this philosophy.

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