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Is the newest and latest attempt on my part to look at what is called "alternative" medicine. Not sure exactly what this term means or implied, but as an average consumer, paying exorbitant amounts of money for health insurance, I wanted to create a forum where we might look at ways to test some of those "alternative" to conventional health care. Obviously, I'm not suggesting we use really difficult examples, such as Cancer or other life threatening diseases, but non-life threatening situations where "ancient health wisdom" can be safely tested.

Most of you know I suffer from dupuytren's contracture disease. It is a common among Europeans and it is hereditary. It causes one or more fingers to lock in a bent position. (I can close my fingers around a golf club though)Smile

There is no known cure and I and my health insurance has paid many thousands of dollars in a failed operation and minor procedures that temporarily lengthen finger extension. Usually I have to have this procedure repeated every couple years. I have a treatment scheduled in November.

Dr saterraji (who you have met on another thread) has volunteered to moderate the forum and to discuss the treatment he wants to give me consisting of homeopathic medicine, herbs and food extracts. A three month treatment will cost $600!

So, as a poor karate teacher who is spending all his disposable income on health insurance, I have the option of continuing to go to a MD for a treatment that doesn't really work for about $5000 a shot (paid for by my insurance) or. . . take $600 out of my pocket for a treatment that is unapproved!

[i]Wouldn't it be nice to find a way for a drug company to sponsor this test. . . in order to confirm that "alternative" medicine doesn't work!]/i]

Does that sound so unreasonable???

Well, maybe we can find another way to pay for this experiment and have Dr. Bill and Dr. Ian supervise the test.

(Now Bill might object. . . Because of the "placebo" effect, I might get cured, but not because of the alternative treatment. . . But I will still be cured and very thankful and. . . I might be once again able to break boards with my fingers! ) Smile

I'm willing to be the subject of this experiment and since the AMA approved doctors and drug companies agree that dupuytren's contracture cannot be cured, I won't be disappointed if it doesn't work.

And I bet there will be a few more people who would welcome the opportunity to be part of some good old fashioned testing. . . especially those who may not have health insurance. . .

I hope you guys and gals will help by contributing to the forum and to you MDs who are making the big bucks. . . maybe a few dollar contribution to the GEM finger testing experiment! Smile

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GEM
"Do or do not. there is no try!"

Greetings George. What an annoying problem... but at least not dangerous. I'd be happy to review any of the proposed therapies. As for the test, sure, there's a risk of a placebo effect, but in this case, we're talking about a contracted finger and not pain. It's a pretty solid endpoint and if you want to reduce the influence of expectation, you could measure range of motion before and after.

Have you considered this?

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0810866

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--Ian

Two months ago I was very excited to learn of this new treatment. I called three doctors in Central Florida who claimed to be certified in the use of collagenase clostridium. histolyticum Two of the doctors weren't doing the treatment but the third made an appointment to see me.

We had a nice discussion, but he didn't seem very eager to schedule a treatment. He tried to convince me to have another operation, which he felt was a better course of treatment. His reasoning was that the operation was covered by medical insurance and each injection would cost over $3000 and each finger would require at least one injection. The kicker was. . . the treatment would not be covered by insurance!

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GEM
"Do or do not. there is no try!"

Modern medicine only traces back 120 or so years in my opinion.
Prior to that we had 15,000 years of care of one sort or another.
Many medicines are based on medicines created by native peoples, those that worked were absorbed, others that did not were cast aside.
If it works and doesn't cost a fortune why not try it? Especially if the conventional route has failed.

F.

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Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com

"If it works and doesn't cost a fortune why not try it? Especially if the conventional route has failed."

"Traditional" medicine incorporates anything that works. Maybe not instantly, but we are data driven in the end. I will endorse anything that "works," but always want to know, 1) how do we know it works (do we have good data, in people like the proposed subject, that the treatment does what it should and that's not all placebo effect, over a meaningful timeframe, resulting in meaningful benefit and 2) do we know if it's safe?

I have a patient right now with liver failure which appears to be due to a supplement. There are no prior case reports of the substance causing liver failure but similar things are 1) illegal and 2) dangerous (that's effect, and cause). THIS stuff, however, was bought at GNC.

As we say in medicine sometimes, "make sure you use a new drug while it still works and before there are any side effects!"

A shame that your treatment isn't insurance approved, George! That's a lot of $$! I wonder if he could obtain it through prior authorization for you. The alternative is to keep paying for surgery which could cost them more in the long term. Good luck!

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--Ian

I gotta ask...

Ian, WHAT supplements (from GNC) caused the liver failure?!?!

Fortunately, I'm down to one prescription and one supplement (that actually contains a couple of things, but my MD has been monitoring, so I'm not worried. BUT...) I haven't started the probiotics and I've basically stopped the whole "multivitamin" stuff. (Doesn't seem to make me feel better or worse and my MD hasn't noticed any difference in workups with or without it. Sooooo... I figure I was probably peeing it away anyway!)

On the whole "alternative" or holistic idea, I was on a bunch of very powerful pharmaceuticals before. The side effects were bad... worse than the disease so to speak (at least for me). Like I said, I'm on just the one supplement pill & one pharmaceutical now and my numbers are pretty darn good. They'll be even better with a little more work on my part.

As GEM has stated, I offered to provide him with a multi-faceted approach to this disorder based upon multiple sources of information directed towards treating the underlying cause of Dupuytrens Contracture.

FYI the following will offer my reasons for developing this approach:

1>Two books by Dr.s Tatau and Greaves dedicated to their combined 50-years of clinical application in the use of plant-gemmotherapy. These texts describe extracted plant-bud (stem cell) dilutions and their use in detoxifying cell walls and rejuvenating cellular metabolism.

2>The research of HEEL GmbH of Baden Baden, Germany, the leading homeopathic pharmaceutical manufacturer in the field of complex homeopathy (homotoxicology) since 1958 and the specific products they describe for Dupuytrens Contracture.

3>The continuing research by Ho Chih Min Hospital, in South Vietnam verifying the value of nano peptides from rice, which act as functional food for cellular energy enhancement and repair....This material effects EVERY CELL in our body.

Anyone caring to view the above information leading to the rationale for this protocol, is welcome to shoot me an email and I will be glad to offer specific resources.

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Learn to use the oriental micro-systems & heal.