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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:30 am 
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More things coming across the border than day laborers and nannies.
Quote:
Men in Mexican Army Uniforms in Border Standoff, Official Says

Tuesday, January 24, 2006

SIERRA BLANCA, Texas — Men in Mexican military-style uniforms crossed the Rio Grande into the United States on a marijuana-smuggling foray, leading to an armed confrontation with Texas law officers, authorities said Tuesday. No shots were fired.

The men retreated and escaped back across the border with much of the pot, though they abandoned more than a half-ton of marijuana as they fled and set fire to one of their vehicles, authorities said.

The Mexican government denied its military was involved.

The confrontation took place Monday and involved three Texas sheriff's deputies, at least two Texas state troopers and at least 10 heavily armed men from the Mexican side of the Rio Grande, said Rick Glancey of the Texas Border Sheriffs' Coalition.

Gov. Rick Perry ordered an investigation.

"It's certainly troubling and unacceptable and a real reminder of how an unsecure border threatens all Texans and the rest of the nation," said Perry spokesman Kathy Walt.

The Mexican Foreign Relations Department issued a statement saying that drug traffickers and other organized criminals have used uniforms and vehicles before. "It is possible that these actions were designed to damage the image of our armed forces," it said.

Monday's incident follows a story in the Inland Valley Daily Bulletin in Ontario, Calif., on Jan. 15 that said the Mexican military had crossed into the United States more than 200 times since 1996. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff has said reports of Mexican incursions into the United States were overblown and most were just mistakes.

The confrontation on Monday took place was near Neely's Crossing, about 50 miles east of El Paso, and started when state police tried to stop three sport utility vehicles on Interstate 10. The vehicles made a quick U-turn and headed south toward the border, a few miles away, Glancey said.

When the SUVs reached the Rio Grande, police saw the occupants of a green, Mexican Army-style Humvee apparently waiting for the convoy, Glancey said.

Police stopped and watched as the vehicles began to cross the shallow river into Mexico. Both sides -- the Americans and the smugglers -- had their weapons drawn.

One SUV got stuck in the river, and another blew a tire on the Texas side. Its driver ran into Mexico.

Men in the Humvee tried to tow the stuck vehicle out of the river. When that failed, a group of men in civilian clothes began unloading from the SUV what appeared to be bundles of marijuana. They then torched the SUV, Glancey said.

Deputies found about 1,400 pounds of marijuana in the vehicle that had a flat tire. The vehicle had previously been reported stolen from El Paso.


Original[/url][/quote]

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:22 pm 
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Location: Arizona
Border to border...

I grew up 15 minutes from the Canadian border in WA state. Talk about a open door polict. Peace arch park has a big monument gate house with cast iron gates, Hard wired. To the walls. The Motto "These gates shall never close." is plastered all over the place.

There are 2 roads named Zero Avenue that run side by side along the boarder. The ONLY thing that separates them is a small ditch with little monloliths every so often in it. The ditch is so small 2 step vans or pick up trucks can back up and touch tail gates... Then push crap accross without going trough customs... Smaller stuff can just be handed off to someone.

Thats not even getting dirt roads that normal cars can drive from properties that butt up to the border on both sides.

Now I live in Arizona... Its even worse. People are smuggled up from Mexico and held hostage by the "Coyotes" (local name for human smugglers). Illegals commit crimes and the local sympathetic news paper either doesn't report it or leaves out the fact they are illegal if its a large enough story.

The Hospital emergence rooms are flooded with illegals that use them as thier primary FREE health care to the point you have to wait over 4 hours normaly (on a great day) unless your bleading out on the floor. The hospitals are required by law to treat them, if they can pay or not.

We had a guy hyjack 5 cars (kept crashing them), shoot an officer (while spike striping) and the final vehicle ended up in the Canals. He had a prior record of violent crime... Oh they forgot to mention... Mexican national here illegaly.

Police officer was shot last year. They finally located and caught the 2 men involved. The shooter... The forgot to mention... Mexican national here illegaly.

Go look up the statistics on Illegals and violent crime here. Building a fence/wall... Probably reduce crime by at least 30-40%. Probably reduce health costs (due to no pay) by over 50%.

Thats not even addressing the Public School impact. The Illegals with PO boxes pulling in Welfare. Hell some border towns have US populations of a few hundered... And super post offices with THOUSANDS of PO boxes. Even portable PO Box trailors to help with the demand... They are very busy around the time of the month welfare checks come in. Children walk across the borders every day to attend US schools.

My wife's family is Hispanic. They entered the US legaly. Her Mother HATES the illegals and what they are doing. Don't tell me that Illegals are OK. They snuck in the back door while her family stood in line to come in the front door.
Sure SOME of them work under the table and just want a better life. MANY of them have no such plans though.

Her family are actually of the Yaqui tribe. One of the few who's native lands actually straddled the border here. When I hear the Migrant, Imigrant BS talking points I need to point out that the natives here didn't walk all over in peace and love in a little Utopian bubble. You cross into another tribes land... You were DEAD. Remember this is Aztec desendance. They didn't seal horses and wives like the plains native americans or throw parties for the neighbors like the costal tribes. These are Jaguar people! You kill the other tribes and give their hearts to he gods. Made them slaves... Untill you killed them and give them to the gods. These are brutal warriors and some of the last tribes to be forced to reservations.

My point... Pull your head out of your rectum... Take off the rose colored glasses... Take a deep breath... Open your eyes and see the real world.

Reality check...
Every violent conflict currently in the world involves Musilms. Guess what they want us ALL (non muslim) dead, period. They can WALK into the country from any border thy want.

Mexico makes more money off US welfare funds flowing into Mexico than anything... That IS their national product. They want us dead too... After they get all the money they can though. The proposed wall and border security WILL cause open war with them. Without the free flow of Illegal slaves, drugs, arms and money... They will go bankrupt fast!

Mexican army helping guard drug runners... you bet they are. They also issue compases and maps to illegals. Teach them to group rush so that most make it past border patrol.

That ONE incident is only one instance that was reported by some media. Talk to the locals, Its a regular event all along the South border. As the point out... over 200 times since 1996.

Sure it's a mistake... on our part to dismiss it.

Sorry, this topic is too close to home and really chaps my back side.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:46 pm 
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Location: Somerville, ma.
Quote:
The Hospital emergence rooms are flooded with illegals that use them as thier primary FREE health care to the point you have to wait over 4 hours normaly (on a great day) unless your bleading out on the floor. The hospitals are required by law to treat them, if they can pay or not.


I hope the day never comes when I value 4 hours or a few hundred dollars more than somebody else's life. We may not have infinite resources to supply health care to the world, but, personally, it doesn't bother me to spend a few dollars a year keeping some illegal immigrants alive.

Arron.Grammond wrote:
Every violent conflict currently in the world involves Musilms. Guess what they want us ALL (non muslim) dead, period.


Some muslims definitely feel that way. Some christians feel that way about them. Some christians feel that way about jews. Some white people feel that way about blacks, some blacks feel that way about whites.

And how much of the violent conflict in the world involves Christians?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:39 pm 
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Vaulkenar

But were not talking about a "few dollars" were talking about millions to billions of dollars.

Were talking about such large amounts of monies that entire hospitals and healthcare centers having to close over treatment of illegal's.

Were talking about billions in education for illegals.

Were talking about serious issues of crime and violence commited by illegals.

Were not even too to the potential deadly results of not being able to control your own boarders in a time of world terror.

Oh, BTW, CURRENTLY the levels of "christain" violence are vanishingly small compared to Muslim levels.

Also suppose it would depend on how exactly you defined "involved."

Relgious fantics of the Mulsim outlook crashed planes into bldgs full of Christains, Hindu's, fellow Mulsims and an number of relgious.

So I suppose you could claim that "christains" and other relgious were indeed "involved"--as VICTEMS.

For the record I don't blame all Muslims for the acts of murderous relgious zelots.

But I don't "sugercoat" the fact that it was Muslim religious fanatics who commited the crime and that Muslims all over the world were filmed danceing with joy in the streets over the brutal deaths of 3000 plus innocent people.

We also recently saw Muslims rioting all over the world over CARTOONS--burning even killing people over cartoons.

My best advice is that if people don't don't wish their relgion judged harshly or innacuratly.
Then they should take greater care as to how the people of their relgion behave.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:33 pm 
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Oh, BTW, CURRENTLY the levels of "christain" violence are vanishingly small compared to Muslim levels.

You counting the ones were Muslims are racialy cleansing areas of Christians in Africa?

Sure the Crusaides... it was going the other direction... I think that era of one particular branch of Christians (I view like Wahabists (sp?) anyhow) were killing musilms, is not apt to happen again. It was also not a WORLD conflict or had so many people potentially to harm.

As the prior person pointed out about the billions of dollars not 4 dollars...

Its not my call to place a value on their lives its theirs when they come here.

I've said the same thing about a break and enter crime. I don't decide my TV is worth a human life. It is the guy who brakes into my house who decides both my life, my wife's and my child's are only worth a TV set. My only choice is to counter offer.

Back to the hospitals... So you go to ER with a sick child. You get to wait 12 hours just to see a doctor because all the illegals that are their for basic health issues. Your child dies or is perminatly harmed by the delay in care... Is THAT worth it?

Even more so... The ER you drove too is closed... Unknown to you. Because they lost so much money by providing services for free they went bankrupt. So your child dies or is perminatly harmed becasue its another few hours to another hospital you hope is still there. Is that worth it?

Take some time and see how many hospitals in Arizona and California have closed their ERs or folded completly because if this.

The schools are in the same boat.

We are talking about building new prisions to hold the illegals that are repeat offendsers. No sence in deporting them, because the are beck within days comitting crimes again. How much does that cost everyone?

How about your child or spose getting hurt or killed due to the increase in violent crimes at school, at the corner market or even in your own yard. its happening DAILY!

Don't try the peace and love for all crap. I've lived on the borders... Its already a war zone as far as I can tell.

Don't try to play it like its a racial deal either. The Coyotes are hurting the poor (money poor) hispanics more than anyone. Its slavery and exploitation. The police officer that was killed last year... He was hispanic! It was a stupid traffic stop, not a violent crime intervention.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY... You break the law its not ME who should care for you... its YOU. I shouldn't pay to have someone baby sit your sorry self with 3 squares and watch TV and work out in the gym. Jail or Prison should be a JOB a dirty, hard, ugly job you really don't like.

If you involve a child and they are in harms way (dragging babies or pregnant women across the desert in the summer heat) Then you just set a price on that childs life. I think YOURs should be forfit for that judgment call.

Sure I have some harsh views... I think life experience around people who do hold life in such low reguard are deserving of my harshness though.

Do what you want as long as it doesn't harm others. If you do harm others... You open yourself to others judgment.

That harm to others is happening daily... Don't cry about the judgment.

PS:
I also don't see any real muslims speaking out against their fellows in faith about what they are doing... Oh wait... Its in their texts that it's a death sentance to speak out against what ANY fellow muslims do.

How would the Bible be if it said "Speak out against any fellow christians and thou shalt die!" or "Kill any one who refuses to believe in God or Jesus." What about... "If thou dies in the killing of the non christians you'll get a extra big reward in the afterlife."

Religion of peace my arse!
Sure there are peacful people who are muslim, but so were their Peacful Germans in WWII. Doesn't mean its not a war with them.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:18 pm 
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Location: Virginia
Quote:
I hope the day never comes when I value 4 hours or a few hundred dollars more than somebody else's life. We may not have infinite resources to supply health care to the world, but, personally, it doesn't bother me to spend a few dollars a year keeping some illegal immigrants alive.


Good. You can pay my share too :)

I've had friends who worked in Texas NM and AZ and I have heard the stories of pregnant mothers coming so their children will be born on US soil.. thus entitleing them to out entiltlement programs. How F'd up is that? And we tolerate that??

(I have edited this. I Removed a paragraph that was alittle extreme. )

Lets talk about this insanity the Bush admin.put forth a while back. Give green cards to illegals so they are legal?? :x The day I heard of his was the day I officially sent a letter to the republican party resighning. I also sent one to the president letting him know how displeased I am. Got a nice leter back from a White house aide explaining the policy :roll: It's lost on me.. as I don't want to hear it.. I feel betrayed.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:19 pm 
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Location: Somerville, ma.
For those of you concerned about the money, how much do you believe that you personally spend in a year giving health care to illegal immigrants?

Regarding the muslim issue, I guess the point is this: What is the purpose of saying, even if it were true (which I'm not convinced of, but am leaving that aside for now), that current violent conflict in the world originates with muslims? What effect do you want the knowledge of that fact to have? What action do you think should we take based on it? In what way is it supposed to affect our opinions?

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Last edited by Valkenar on Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:14 pm 
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I have heard it said many times that not everyone of any given group is bad and to stereotype an entire group because of the bad acts of some members of that group is unfair and unjust. I was told about the "10% rule" which means that 10% of any given group is comprised of the "bad apples", but the other 90% is OK. I've grown to believe in the 10% rule over the years, with the only change being in reversing which percentage is which... :lol: :cry: :P :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:00 pm 
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I would say that the problem isn't with the illegal alien.
Rather,
It's with the employers and other citizens who give them work.
If America stopped hiring Illegal Immigrants to act as cheap labor such as Gardner's, Nannies, Day Laborers, Maids, field workers, etc., then they will not come in the droves as they have been.
You remove the jobs, then you remove the job seekers.
What's worse, is we have a president who supports giving them special visas!

Insanity..!

To solve the problem, Americans will have to clean their own houses, take care of their own kids, mow their own damn lawn, hire union labor, and pay a bit more for veggies.
Something Americans used to take pride in...
Until this happens, we will continue to see an issue, until America is like California,

52% Mexican decent.

Can you say silent invasion?

Edited to say:
Not that I personally have any issues with people of Mexican decent themselves, rather, current Mexican society is one of mainly dire 3rd world-like poverty, primarliy due to it's own corrupt government.
So rather, whist I have no issue with the populace at large or the traditional and Spanish influenced culture, I do have issues with the "bringing the slums of Mexico to the United states."
It's hard to convey that last sentence without coming off as some sort of racist, but hopefully someone gets my meaning.
I.e.,
We welcome your people, but you are in America now. Leave the 3rd world mentality at home.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:25 pm 
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I both like and fear the term used above "silent invasion"

I like it because it accuratly describes the situation.

And I fear it for the same reason.

When a nation allows millions of people to illegally cross its borders at will, partake of society, set up house etc.

Its an invasion, with or without weapons.

People sometimes get to wrapped up in abstract thinking about this.

Its really very simple.

You come home from work and find a man has broken into your home.
He has taken up residence in your basement and refuses to leave.
You have no way f knowing if he is violent or not.

Do you let him stay or do you call the cops?

Would even the most liberal of us just shrug and let him stay?

Don't think they would.

Or another situation, you come home from work and find a guy and his buddy have broken into your apartment/home.
They say they are staying, they tell yo they are willing to pay part of the rent, even do the nasty jobs like cleaning the toliet that you hate.

Would you let them stay?

Probably not.

Same situation with the borders and those whom cross illegaly.

They have commited a CRIME by doing so.

All fancy arguements aside and appeals to "humanity"--which means that your only "human" IF you agree with them.

The bottom line is that we have a right to say whom and how and when people come into this nation.

We have one of the most "open" immegration policies in the world.

And allowing them to do to an entire nation, what we would NEVER allow to happen to us as individuals, is both sad and scary.


Last edited by cxt on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:31 pm 
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Vaulkenar

So your going to stare right in the teeth of the facts that hospitals and heathcare centers are going bankrupt due to illegals.

Ignore it.

Then ask "how much do we think we spend each year??"

I have 2 answers.

1-I should not be spending ANY money at all on people that are not supposed to be here in the first place.

I have all kinds of cash to spend on legal immegrents

2-What comes out of my pocket is a FINATE amount, my taxs should go to helping legal immegrents.
My wallet is not bottomless and every dollar spent on illegals is a dollar that CAN'T go elsewhere.

The fact remains that health care cost for illegals is a staggering and growing amount of money.

Enough so that in places its driven some healthcare providers out of business.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:02 pm 
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cxt wrote:
Or another situation, you come home from work and find a guy and his buddy have broken into your apartment/home.
They say they are staying, they tell yo they are willing to pay part of the rent, even do the nasty jobs like cleaning the toilet that you hate.
.


Meta: Even better:
You come home one day to find on the left side of your house, the landlord has turned into a slum lord, converted the garage illegally into living quarters without a toilet, and allows transient illegals to move in and out at will, in which case they get drunk, blast ranchero music, pee and defecate on the side of the shack, and peer over my fence just to "say Ola", and ogle my daughter.
Compound that with another set of next door neighbors from Thailand, who have no concept of proper trash disposal or yard maintenance. Then you have the back neighbors, who feel it's perfectly ok to shoot the neighborhood cats, Blow off fireworks in January, sing bad Karaoke during the day, toss trash over my fence, steal my oranges vomit on the street, and congregate until 2:00 singing their local folk songs.
Welcome to my world.

But despite all this, I'm not mad at 'em.
It's the upper class hypocrite-scum who scream all day about immigration, but yet won't dare give up their underpaid maids and gardeners.
Everyone wants some sort of service for cheap.
They call it "saving a buck".
I call it exploitation, and their kids are even learning how to live life without doing a single bit of manual labor, how to treat other ethnicities as "subordinates" and all other redeeming social abhorations that were supposed to have disappeared from our psyches. And to boot, all this on a middle income.

Nice.

I got three words for you America,
Como Esta Ustead.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:16 pm 
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cxt wrote:

1-I should not be spending ANY money at all on people that are not supposed to be here in the first place.
.


Meta: C'mon, That's not the American way!
They are human beings!
You can't just deny people medicine.... In my book, that's a basic human right.
Again, don't be mad at the illegals for being here, because I'll tell you what, if I were Mexican, things being as they are in Mexico, I'D BE HERE, WOULDN'T YOU???

The problem is government, particularly businesses and farms which hire illegals, and to some degree, average Joe Q citizen.
You tell the public that without Illegals to pick the veggies, the price of food will skyrocket, and suddenly they want to talk about something else.
Or even worse, you get labeled a racist for even bringing it up.
America created the problem, and feeds it.
Only America can solve it, so we need to take our lumps.
Maybe if more people were outraged enough, something would get done. Sadly though, most of the folks with the political might and $$ in California are the ones who have the most to lose by clamping down on Illegals.
So we turn a blind eye, and blame the result, rather than the cause. It's much easier that way.

That said,

Consider Mecca and Azatlan

http://www.alipac.us/article-657--0-0.html

http://www.aztlan.net/

http://www.alipac.us/article-topic-23.html

This is a real group, and if they have thier way, California will be returned to Mexico, and will be "ethnically cleansed."

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:25 pm 
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This is as real as it gets, folks..

http://www.alipac.us/article1043.html


"Northern Virginia is reported to have the strongest number of MS-13 members in a single city. And there are many cities infected now by MS-13."

8O

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:38 pm 
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Meta


If things are so bad where your at--then its easy to get here LEAGALLY.

And if one of the things that's "better" over here is free healthcare--then that's a good reason to set limits on it.

The American way is to be generous, I have no problems with people CHOOSING to give.

I have all kinds of probelms with people taking advantage of that generosity---advantages that has resulted in some areas of the nation not having any healthcare at all.

A situation where our kindness fast becomes a harm to everyone.


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