40 shots and counting!

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40 shots and counting!

Postby RACastanet » Sun Oct 17, 1999 11:00 pm

GEM: In the threat management course I am taking, the instructor had a statistic showing that it is common for an officer involved in a shooting to empty his/her clip. There are two reasons for this:

- They are trained to fire until the perp is stopped. Even a well placed shot from a pistol will rarely drop someone in their tracks. It takes about ten seconds for the physiological effects of the shot to be disabling. As Van sensei recommends, two to center of mass, and one more to .....

- Unlike what you see on TV/Movies, unless you get a head shot, you really cannot be certain that you did even hit the person. This is especially true if it is cold and a lot of clothing is worn. The blood really does not spurt out all over. So, they continue to fire.

We had a recent event near here where a bad guy with a large knife charged a policeman in a Wal-Mart. The officer fell back and discharged his clip into the fruit drinks, snacks and ceiling as he landed. As the felon continued the charge, another officer shot him, which did pacify the gent.

So, are the NY police bad guys? Maybe they WERE responding to their training.

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40 shots and counting!

Postby gmattson » Mon Oct 18, 1999 5:02 am

Anyone familiar with the case involving 10 police officers who accidentally killed a civilian by emptying their clips trying to stop him?

There was lots of publicity surrounding whether or not they were justified in shooting the first shot, but no mention of the kinds of emotional stress on police during a shooting, that would cause them to shoot non-stop, rarely hitting the target. I suspect this is the kind of reaction Van talks about in his forum. Will the police have expert witnesses testify in their behalf regarding this condition and will it be helpful to know what training these police had to cope with this chemical cocktail.

I'm not familiar with the facts involved in the shooting and therefore am not condeming or condoning the shooting. I've heard of similar situations where a police officer will empty his clip in a shooting, but not even aware of pulling the trigger. Do police who receive special training that Van refers to, react in the same way?

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40 shots and counting!

Postby dhoward66201 » Tue Oct 19, 1999 1:00 am

I think the incident you are thinking of in New York went as follows:

There were four detectives. One went into arrest a supposed drug dealer. As he was at the man's front door, a neighbor came out and started to walk to the front door of the building. At the front door, he reached into his pocket to pull out a comb, unknowing that three other detectives were outside waiting as backup for the one inside.

The police blew him away. I don't know the disposition of this case, but it was under investigation. The man killed was an immigrant from Africa.
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