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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 11:06 am 
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/delishooting001226.html

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Allen Moulton from http://www.ury2k.com/


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 1070
And I'd defend any such "wrongful death" lawsuit in my sleep...successfully.

There was an immediate illegal deadly danger to the officer and others. Regardless of whether New York has a duty to retreat doctrine or not it is clear that the officer could not retreat safely without at the very least leaving his family in jeopardy - maybe physically, he could not retreat at all.

I am inferring (actually speculating, but at law were I a juror I would not be allowed to do that, so I'm inferring, you understand Image) that the officer's movements in drawing his gun caused the robbers to move hostilely in his direction, truncating the officer's possible effective responses, i.e., you cannot expect effective results from shouting "Halt In The Name Of The Law: I Have You Covered With My Trusty Sidearm And You Must Surrender Or You Are In Peril Of Losing Either Your Lives Or Freedom! Now, Would Either Or Both Of You Like Some Tea Before We Head To Center Street?"

In short, he could shoot...or he could die. Or watch someone else innocent die...maybe someone he loved.

As previously said, I'd be able to defend this one in my sleep, unless the officers own family got on the stand and said the two decedents were merely asking for directions, made no hostile comments or movements, had no weapons that were not later supplied post-mortem by the officer, and all entry wounds were from the back. I concede that scenario would make me need at least one cup of coffee...maybe even one of Tony's....

But one of the important facts in this story is that an experienced police officer, under stress, had no greater than a 38% accuracy rate in his shots - not the kill shots, necessarily (although since only 3 shots hit 2 robbers, it's safe to say that there were at least 2 kill shots and maybe all 3.)

Moral: you will react as you have trained yourself (and if you haven't trained yourself, that is how you'll react), but with far less grace, accuracy, efficiency. It's not the same as the gymnasium/classroom/laboratory/dojo/kwoon/dojang...and unless you're very new to these Forums, that moral is something you have seen here before.

student

[This message has been edited by student (edited December 27, 2000).]


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 12:09 am 
He is fortunate n the sense that he is a detective with years of service. A regular citizen would pay a high price in the courts for defending his life.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 2:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 493
Location: Framingham, MA USA
Great presentation and subject, Allen M.

The scenario in Students reply probably raced through the mind of the Detective/Victim. The action of the detective would be completely justified in the circumstances suggested in the news report. In my opinion he should be given a medal for preventing death or at least bodily harm to victims at the hands of the perpertrators who were in the act of a heinous felony.

In Boston, a new case is developing where a Boston Police Officer shot and killed a perp
in the process of fleeing the scene of a crime.

I make no attempt to prejudge a case because the known facts at this writing are few and sketchy.

I present this only as an ongoing example that we tackle in this forum of the law of self defense and its components, and the laws concerning justifiable action of private persons or officers of the law.

The morning news on Boston New Radio WBZ stated that the subject had been shot after being sought for illegal drug usage.

Obviously new allegations will be made as evidence is developed and released.

I just ask you to contemplate the possible results that might happen if the investigation discloses that the perp (a) resisted arrest; (b) did not actually resist but fled; (c) had been charged or about to be charged with possession of a small amount of illegal substances; or (d) was charged with possession of a larger amount enough to make the crime a felony as opposed to a misdemeanor (e) in any of the above scenarios displayed or used a weapon, or (f)
was found to have had no drugs or weapons, but was sought after a tip from a reliable informer.

Alan K


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