Uechi Flow Drills

[Dana Sheets]

So if we were going to borrow a training technique from another part of the martial arts world - I'd like to borrow flow drills.

There are many sources and many kinds - some alternate only one movement while others follow a series of movements. The ones I've seen in the FMA are nice because they generally work with a stick, a blade, or an empty hand. Now that makes alot of sense because the art trains all three and those are three pretty common things folks where those arts are from faced in a self-protection situation.

What would a Uechi-based flow drill look like? Well that's kind of an endlessly open-ened question. David Elkins once posted on this site his interpretation of Patrick McCarthy's Tegumi drills. I trained them with David at one camp a couple of years back and they continue to be part of my training.

The link to those drills is broken from the current articles list - but here's the link to the original article.

http://uechi-ryu.com/oldsite/Okinawan%2 ... drills.htm

David also gave some suggested bunkai off each of these drills - some I was able to explore during those three days but many drifted away. The important part is that the bunkai don't matter. The principle is that at a certain point during the flow drill one person would break the flow and continue on in a series of movements that exploited the openings and weaknesses of the partner.

Two of the main principles of David's drills are that both hands must stay alive, and you coordinate your body through the use of your sanchin so that you are able to apply force into your attacks while maintaining your center so you are prepared for the break in the flow that may come at any time.

Flow drills can help with body awareness, targeting, movement, break the habit of fixating on any one thing with the eyes (i.e. students who always look at the punch,) and reinforce some basic fighting principles.

Now a flow drill that is never broken is just a pretty pattern. Students should learn the pattern until they are able to execute it with understanding and that's where the fun begins. Besides - two person sets are fun to train, build spirit in the dojo, and can involve some good body conditioning. (My personal body conditioning expectetations soared after my workout with David.)

Obviously this list could be endless but I'd like to come up with a dozen that have a good Uechi flavor, that are fun to do, teach a solid principle, and maybe have a conditioning element to them.

[Bill Glasheen]

Now a flow drill that is never broken is just a pretty pattern. Students should learn the pattern until they are able to execute it with understanding and that's where the fun begins.

This is true of pretty much all prearranged work, Dana, although many (either for or against the body of work) deny it. The fun only begins when the pattern is internalized. The goal is never to internalize the pattern per se, but use said pattern as a vehicle by which one can improve a multitude of skill sets.

The reason why this becomes so obvious in flow drills is because of the circular nature of the work. As soon as the person gets to the "Is that all?" state, then experimentation seems natural. And generally it's easy to see how one can pick up a broken thread of movement and get right back in the flow of things again.

It is one reason why my 12 hojoundo bunkai were all choreographed as circular exercises.

Obviously this list could be endless but I'd like to come up with a dozen that have a good Uechi flavor, that are fun to do, teach a solid principle, and maybe have a conditioning element to them.

Never be afraid to steal from similar arts, Dana. Musicians do it to each other all the time (e.g. Vanilla Ice with a near-exact copy of a bass lick from "Under Pressure" by David Bowie). I got a lot of good ideas from Goju and Wing Chun. FMA seems like a great place to start.

Let me know when you start playing. I'm on board. And maybe we can bring Raffi into the fun. (Don't you love it when people get volunteered? )

- Bill

[benzocaine]

Remember the Flow drill Sensei Thompson began to teach in Philly a little while back Dana? It reminded me of Raffi's hand drills for FMA.

[Stryke]

Dana Sent you my set , based on the drills I learnt from Kyoshi McCarthy (what I remembered )

I think the important thing is to keep them addressing habitual acts of Violence , as long as they have sound positional strategy then the skys the limit .

[Dana Sheets]

Psst - Raffi - wanna jump in? Have you already done this with Uechi? Got some thoughts?

[IJ]

I'm convinced we all do a Uechi flow drill. I was taught kotekitae in a very halting, karate cadence... thunk, pause, thunk, pause; the drill had been adapted to be primarily a conditioning tool. But GEM and others (if memory serves, some are doing it in the videos from the 60s from Okinawa) do this more rapidly. In this respect they're the "missing link" to another drill I learned completely separately from kotekitae from Raffi Derderian and his FMA (also on Paul Vunak's JKD video on trapping). In that drill, one person does pretty much a shuto, feeding their arm to the second person. Person 2 catches it with the mirror image (let's say, left catching the other's right) arm (with the elbow raised, palm out), then comes beneath it with their right arm in a circle, with the right hand ending on top, then the left hand comes from above, landing cupped on the forearm, and the second person replies with a shuto from THEIR right hand, and the first person does the same thing.

It's the same sequence as kotekitae--intercept with the mirror image arm, strike/circle from below with the other arm, come from above with the mirror image arm, and reply with the opposite side arm.

The first difference is that the flow drill is bred to emphasize fluidity and motion and feel rather than thunking conditioning. It's like a lab and a poodle--they're both dogs, and you can make a labradoodle if you want.

The second difference are all the flow-changing techniques thrown into the mix to teach specific skills. These include traps from the receiving person or altering the shuto to different attacks with different replies. In contrast to kotekitae, the "thing" isn't the sequence but the value in departing from it.

[Raffi Derderian]

>>>>Psst - Raffi - wanna jump in? Have you already done this with Uechi? Got some thoughts?<<<<
Anything for you Dana.
It's funny you should be talking about this and bringing me into it. It's even more odd I am on the website posting since I generally don't have the time to anymore.
Anyhow, as I have been asked to come to Winterfest by David Berndt to teach in 05, I was thinking about what I would teach. David wants weapons. My frustration with the Uechi community is that there is a tendency (not from EVERYONE, mind you) to just sort of dabble in this and that. This of course includes what I teach as well. Personally, I think that the Filipino flow drills I teach and practice are enough. Why reinvent the wheel? However, I know once I leave camp or seminars, no one works the stuff until my next visit. After years of this, I decided that maybe I needed to come up with something more Uechi friendly. So I borrowed (okay, stole) the concept of what our good friend Joe Pomfret did and started to put together a two person knife set. (Joe did an awesome DVD of a BJJ two person set-if you don't have it, get it!)
I have not "unveiled" the set yet, I am still working out the bugs. I plan to teach it to my Kempo students as well. It can be transposed to sticks also.
It should be done by Winterfest.
Holding that aside, I really feel if one practices the flow drills of JKD (which are taken from Wing Chun and Kali) and work them, you will see results. You want fast hands? You'll get'em. You want coordination? You'll get it. You want to move more smoothly? You will. If you feel you are too robotic or stiff in your martial arts, these drills can help that.
See, the problem isn't which drill to do. The problem is that many people don't want to give up precious kata time to do them. I know of one Uechi school here that does the standard 3 of every kata at the end of class. Plus all of the pre-arranged sets and conditioning. Ooops, can't forget the Hojundo and such. Oh, look at the clock, time to go.
Hmm, how about just 1 or 2 of every kata, the hell with jubiundo and maybe work in some flow drills??? It would make everything else better and provide variety. Just a thought. Sorry if I am ranting. Only one cup of coffee and I just got back from the mall. Now THAT'S combat training!!!
Ian, the drill you are describing is called Ligot Hubud Lubud. Commonly referred to as Hubod for short.
Raf

[Dana Sheets]

Ian -I agree - arm pounding can be done in more of a flow drill manner. The drill Ben describes from the seminar we attended with Mr. Thompson is actually very similar to arm pounding - it just uses the hand movements from the hawk chases sparrow movement in Seichin along with a body shift to lightly redirect the incoming force. And instead of pounding as a final move - you simply trap or seal the elbow. The shuto drill you describe is great and now on the list.

Raffi - thanks for dropping by. I know you've taught many good drills. However I think one of the reasons that many good drills go untrained is that they lack a Uechi flavor. Many of the drills you've introduced me to are excellent - but feel like something other than Uechi. That probably sounds a little silly...but it is what it is.

So that's why I want to take a closer look at some things and see if, with a little tweaking, they'd feel like something that's already a part of Uechi.

The ones that David Elkins adapted from Mr. McCarthy are good - and also a starting place. So yes - I plan to continue to flatter by imitation - but I want them to feel like Uechi too.

Dana

[Bill Glasheen]

Many of the drills you've introduced me to are excellent - but feel like something other than Uechi

Really? What doe Uechi feel like?

Just to play devil's advocate (which I neeever do... ). I happen to think a lot of Raffi's drills feel a LOT like "Uechi" - whatever the hell that is. But then I've been stealing stuff from Wing Chun for a while. And then again...Raffi sometimes shakes his head and laughs when I tell him I see "Uechi" in many of his FMA sets. Go figure...

From my perspective... IMNSHO... I think something very important was lost in the translation of this style from China to Okinawa. And a few of us have been on a conscious mission to study sister styles in Southern China with the goal of capturing more of that Southern Chinese essence.

It's not like I have an accent, Dana. You all (y'all) talk funny. Food for thought.

- Bill

[maxwell ainley]

Bill " really what does uechi feel like ? great point Bill .

max.

[Dana Sheets]

Some like and train a wide variety of things, like Raffi. I'm glad that works for those kinds of folks and that's the very reason I asked Raffi to drop by and add to this thread. But particularly for newer students - if you start training something that feels like a huge departure from their other training it's going to feel out of place. Finally - Uechi is an empty handed art - so I want to honor that tradition in Uechi by having circular empty-handed drills. Others are welcome to add sticks, knives, bones, grenades, and guns.

So I want some things that feel like they were built especially for Uechi. That means including shokens, hirakens, wauke, snap kicks, kakushikens, hiza geri, furi knuite, etc.

A good circular drill is:
1)something that fits within the fighting principles of the system (this is obviously something that's open to lots of differing opinions)
2) circular
2) can be done on both sides
3) the pattern, once learned, is a good jumping off point for training other ideas
4) is not so risky that you might get killed every time you try to train it

And in the "nice to have" category I would list:
5) offers opportunities for conditioning
6)
7)

ack - it's late gotta run.

[IJ]

I think that Uechi is as Uechi does--and there's a lot of utility in there we can gain by working on feel and fluidity rather than bam stop chop stop kick stop and go karate like everyone else. The conditioning part of kotekitae, but also the flow drill aspect, are some of the keys to what makes Uechi so cool. Down with vanilla karate! Hubod makes my Uechi better

[Dana Sheets]

Agreed. But a flow drill can include some elements of contact without feeling stop & go.

"Everything is Uechi" is not something that breaks down into things you can teach. There have already been some good concrete suggestions of what some flow drills could look like.

I'll start off with a flow drill we've train at the WKA for years - I don't know its origin. This is what I would consider a very basic flow drill because each person is asked to only move one limb at a time.

Two people face off on opposite stances.
Person 1 throws a high punch to the face
Person 2 uses a rising brushing motion (similar to what you do for a vertical elbow strike) to redirect the punch from the inside out. We often refer to this move as the hair bush move - you want to be as relaxed and quick and natural as when you brush your hair back away from your forehead)
Person 1 now throws a punch to the solar plexus of Person 2
Person two uses the same hand they used to redirect the high punch to do a lower centerline push to redirect the strike.

The goal is for the person receiving the strikes to blend and redirect instead of banging the striking.

As Person 2 redirects the low punch they throw their own high punch at Person 1 who does the same sequence.

Note: The hand that isn't striking should be alive and ready to receive unexpected strikes or exploit openings once folks are ready to break the pattern.

What I like about this one is that you stay on the inside as the receiver and that you build blending skills. As this drill ratchets up you add stepping and movement to the regular pattern and once folks can do that you start breaking the pattern and see what flows.

[gmattson]

As a Uechi teacher, I believe all our prearranged drills and two person exercises qualify as "flow" drills.

I wrote three articles for Bugeisha magazine a number of years ago. One was about our arm conditioning drill. In case you missed it, please check it out:

http://uechi-ryu.com/oldsite/bugeisha3.pdf

It was written to explain the many possible ways kotikiti and Uechi-ryu in general can be interpreted.

[Raffi Derderian]

Dana,
I have to disagree with not doing anything because it doesn't "feel Uechi". It doesn't sound silly as you say, I know kind of what you mean. If you are looking for a flow drill to bring out the same elements as all of your other training does, why bother? I think you need to figure out what you want to get out of the flow drills. Then consider if these goals can be achieved through FMA drills. If they can, who cares if they don't feel Uechi? Did you really give these drills a chance? Try them for a few months and see.
I agree with Sensei that Kyu and Dan Kumite are flow drills. They are pre-arranged (please, no more pre-arranged debates, I beg you) and can be broken up at any point. I have shown this at some Uechi schools and no one seems to give a sh*t. Whatever. Locks, throws and sweeps can be used to "break the pattern" of these kumites. You can add ground techniques if you like also.
Years ago my first Uechi teacher had us all do "continuous" dan kumite. It was actually not a bad idea. (see-I do give credit where it is due) Basically, there are no breaks between or resets. You keep going. The problem was that everyone just did this mindlessly. Blocks where started before the next technique was even thrown. This was a great opportunity to "break the pattern." Of course when I suggested it I got the usual dirty look and it was never implemented.
When you mentioned your flow drill from WKA, I liked it. However, why not just do one of the points of Kyu Kumite over and over again back and forth without stopping? It sounds like it achives the same thing.
Good thread.
Nice to hear from you Sensei. It is about 18 degrees here and I am envious of you.
Raffi