Chi and God ?

nosib · Post by **nosib** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:45 am

Ah...I don't know...just a thought.... It was awhile back on this forum there was some discussion pertaining to the existance or non-existance of Chi.
It seems to me that the concept of Chi and its intanginable quality carries the same weight/truth or there lack of.. as that of the concept of God based on arguements/experiences,logical or not for establishing their existance.

OOOOOkaaaa....kind of wondering how many Chi bashers believe in an Almighty.........................!!!!!

Can of worms? not applicapable ? could be I've been hitting the Sanchins too hard as of late! Just a ponder.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:57 am

Wow, that's kind of a personal question. At least it is for me.

I am an avowed chi basher. However I completely understand the "language" of many chi-sters. I just don't buy it as being anything that can't otherwise be explained with western scientific concepts. But on occasion, I'll slip in some language like "yin and yang" or "energy flow" into my martial classes.

Believe it or not, I'm kind of ambivalent to the idea of a supernatural being. I was raised in the Catholic Church, but probably identify best with the UU church. To me, it's more about living judeochristian principles rather than fearing a god or wanting to go to heaven. But that's me. And I'm giving my own kids religious education and allowing them to arrive at their own beliefs and reach their own conclusions.

Big problem here is nobody has come back to tell us who is right...

At least not in my lifetime, or in a way that passes modern scholastic standards. But I guess that's why they call it faith.

By the way, Virginia, do you believe in Santa Claus? I do...

- Bill

benzocaine · Post by **benzocaine** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:15 pm

By the way, Virginia, do you believe in Santa Claus? I do

There are some who say Santa is of the Devil

Just rearange the letters

Uechij · Post by **Uechij** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:22 pm

Good Subject.

I wonder how many fall into that hypocritical line of thinking/belief? It’s funny how doctors, scientist, etc. always deny peoples beliefs like chi, meditation, etc. then turn around and say they believe in god. I afford them the same response, “Where’s the proof,” I ask. The usual response:

“you just got to have faith”

or,

“It’s gods will”

Or even better,

“God moves in mysterious ways.”

Yeeeaaaaahh, Okay!!!

So everybody who doesn’t believe your way has to have proof.

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:02 pm

I'm not a religious scholar, but I think most religions don't make hard claims that can be tested, such as "pray for a cookie and one will appear on your desk," where as some chi huggers do make hard claims. "I will knock you out by touching your am." If those are made they can be tested.

A random sampling of say 1000 average citizens would dispell any doubts either way about only other chi huggers being knocked out. It's much harder to take a sampling of intangible things like not getting a cookie because you need to cut back on the sweets or someone giving you a cookie when you're sad to make you feel better because whichever god works in mysterious ways.

Uechij · Post by **Uechij** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:19 pm

"I'm not a religious scholar, but I think most religions don't make hard claims that can be tested, such as "pray for a cookie and one will appear on your desk,..."

Some do. It's called divine intervention.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:14 pm

Might the reverse question be as interesting? How many Chi believers believe in God?

I experience what the term 'Chi' might mean when I practice my Tai Chi on a good day. Can't do much with it but I know when its there.

On the other hand I have serious questions about God, if he really did create the universe I question whether he balances well? What I see is a much more curious reality than what one would expect in a creator?

benzocaine · Post by **benzocaine** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:06 pm

For the record, I believe in a power greater than myself. I was just poking fun about Santa.

f.Channell · Post by **f.Channell** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:33 am

I always have seen that the closer people are to meeting God the more they believe in him.

Chi? Show me. After 25+ years I haven't seen it yet.
Love to see a few Chi masters in the octagon.
F.

Ted Dinwiddie · Post by **Ted Dinwiddie** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:23 pm

I am a "chi-ster" and I believe in God.

and I agree

I just don't buy it as being anything that can't otherwise be explained with western scientific concepts.

From a MA perspective, my mind fits around the chi-ster version of the same principles that can be expressed in a more modern way.

Science and God are not mutually exclusive. God created the human mind and the systems and events it seeks to understand. Any human that professes to know God's will better than another is an #####.

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:58 pm

Seems to me that a definition of these terms would be helpfull before folks start giving their opinions about the undefined

When we say God do we mean the God that is happy to watch innocent folks killed in the name of some unholy war or fatwah or Jihad, or for the purposes of ethnic cleansing? or pleased to condem people for their sexuality or different religious beliefs
When we say Chi do we mean the stuff that the fat guy in the pyjammas is selling to us to help us knock over our enemies from 30ft away

.and for only a $100 buck dollars for a 15 minute class?........coz I don't believe in either of them myself

but I do believe that something goes on when we die, not necessarily a personality or a mind, but something unchanging

.......and I do believe that you can feel things internally that you can describe as chi.........and that you can do stuff by moving your body in a certain way that can negate greater strength and make you appear ( in fact you will be

) increadably strong....and you can call that chi if you want to as well

...............and just to show that you don't have to be a flake to believe in immortality, here is a clever bloke who does

http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/artic ... ummary.htm

Karateka · Post by **Karateka** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:34 pm

I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I'm a fundamentalist Christian with a Calvinist Dispensational bent....hey, you asked!

With just over 15 years training in karate, 10 in judo and jujitsu and 10 in boxing...I've never experianced chi. I've had punches that seem to be perfect, kicks as well. Sometimes when I'm rolling I feel like I'm in the zone and I'm hard as hell to tap. If you call that chi, then maybe chi exists.

My karate sensei teaches that if you work hard at gaining proper technique, you body will have extreme focus by bringing all your energy into one movement. That's what I believe because that's what I experianced.

Karateka · Post by **Karateka** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:36 pm

Ted Dinwiddie wrote:
Science and God are not mutually exclusive. God created the human mind and the systems and events it seeks to understand. Any human that professes to know God's will better than another is an #####.

That's a relativ'ism' and as anyone who has taken a basic study of philosophy knows, relativism doesn't work. The world has to have obsolutes.

Tokezu · Post by **Tokezu** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:34 pm

Nosib-

I believe in God
I believe in Chi
I believe in Ghosts
I believe in cheese, too, by the way.

I do not believe that God did all the things attributed to her by personkind.

I do not believe that Chi is everything everyone reports

I do not believe that Ghosts are the spirits of the dead returned to watch me as I bathe, eat cheese, and fornicate with abandone. (which is almost the right order, by the way)

So I guess I am ageeing with Jorvik, which for me is not unusual, that DEFINITIONS can play havoc with both questions and answers.

What/who/where is God? (Try to remember that "everything is in Sanchin" ok?)

What is chi? Ask that question of three martial artists and you will get 5 answers.

And for Glasheen Sensei- with sincere respect and no intention of disrespect (is that cautious enough?)

I just don't buy it as being anything that can't otherwise be explained with western scientific concepts.

I guess I can not disagree with you stating what you accept, but I will point out that we scientists (I is one two) have, at all points in history, thunk that we had it all figured out.

Some things we now believe we understand and can explain by our science will eventaully be turned inside out. And some things now undeniabley exist that we can not explain.

For instance-

We can not, at this point, clearly deliniate the vector of gravity, i.e how the gravitic effect on mass is transmitted to that mass. Is it a partical or a wave or some invible turtles with Question Marks scratched on their backs (obscure literary reference)? (yes, i know we can MEASURE gravity)

Having said all that, I have never seen anyone knock over an object (let alone a person) by projecting their CHI. But I believe, strongly, that energy flows in, through, and around my body. Man, my last accupuncture session just about knocked my socks off; you can call it CHI or CHAI or THE CHEESE in the MACHINE, but it was flowin'.

My favorite Einstein qoute sums it up best- "I could never understand it all!"

DL

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:02 pm

My passion in life is to demystify and demythologize. That's what blows my hair back...

But if the metaphors and mythology are useful, why not?

- Bill