Who wears silk stockings, satin pants and ribbon in his hair

[MikeK]

and will still kick your butt?

These guys. Check out this old combatives manual.

http://jfgilles.club.fr/escrime/bibliot ... index.html

[Bill Glasheen]

That's a hoot, Mike! A few pictures are actually interesting. Wish I spoke German...

Just what the hell is this guy grabbing?



- Bill

[chef]

Hey Bill, aren't you out in Phoenix.....and yet still very disciplined and moderating your Forum.....good for you. You are a dedicated man.

Hope you are enjoying the weather.

Your pal,
Vicki

[Bill Glasheen]

It is too nice here. Brilliant sunshine with cool, dry air. And everything is green and blooming. The hummingbirds are going crazy over all the desert flowers. And the smell of orange blossoms near work...

When Phoenix is at its peak, it'll knock your socks off.

Too bad I'm too busy to spend much time out...

- Bill

[Harry Cook]

For what it is worth the application of the two 'groin grabs' in Heian 5 that I teach is exactlly the same as the illustration posted above. (without the hair ribbons etc of course)
Harry Cook

[MikeK]

I'm going to have to look for that move Harry.

Glad you guys liked it. It makes me wonder why the Asians kept hold of this stuff but we Westerners almost lost it.

Hope to see you all now that I'm over this bug.

[Harry Cook]

Ok Mike,
in the Shotokan version of Heian/Pinan 5. You have done the jump, x block, augmented block, then you turn to the rear, left hand sweeping across the face right hand 'spearing' down. Take the left hand as a parry/intercept to an incoming attack. Slip the attack while simultaneously turning the attacker to his left and moving in behind him. Reach down with your right hand and grab his nuts. Squeeze and pull back/lift - the left hand pushes his head down.
If you have Sidney Anglo's The Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe (Yale University Press, 2000) you will see a very similar application on page 183 from a German work of 1533.
Harry Cook

[Glenn]

If you have Sidney Anglo's The Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe (Yale University Press, 2000) you will see a very similar application on page 183 from a German work of 1533.
Harry Cook

Anglo's book is a great contribution to the history of the martial arts. Definitely enlightening about the fact that unarmed fighting traditions have not been isolated to just developing in Asia. It's interesting that the European traditions died out, otherwise we might be training/discussing "Smith's Fist Style" or the like. With the longer tradition of guns in the west, the European traditions of unarmed and bladed/blunt combat really did a vanishing act, except where they transitioned to sports like boxing, wrestling, and fencing.

Maybe we could recreate one.

[Harry Cook]

It is already happening. see English Martial Arts Terry Brown Anglo-Saxon Books, Thetford, Norfolk, England 1997
Harry Cook

[chef]

I am okay with the guy in his locks and satin breeches as long as his hair doesn't look better than mine.

Personally, those satin breeches make your butt look big if you are out of shape anyway.


Vicki

[Glenn]

It is already happening. see English Martial Arts Terry Brown Anglo-Saxon Books, Thetford, Norfolk, England 1997
Harry Cook

Interesting looking book, I'll have to try to find a copy. Every once in a while Discovery, TLC, History Channel or the like will run a program where researchers are examining the fighting techniques of Medieval Europe, but it almost always focuses on weapons.

Here is another book of similar subject matter:
http://www.greenhillbooks.com/booksheet ... t_pbk.html

[Glenn]

Harry,

Didn't you write an article or two on this topic for Dragon Times?

[MikeK]

With the longer tradition of guns in the west, the European traditions of unarmed and bladed/blunt combat really did a vanishing act, except where they transitioned to sports like boxing, wrestling, and fencing.

A book that I read, "By the Sword", was really interesting in that you see how quickly Western combat and fighting technology progressed. In a way we owe learning our unarmed fighting technology from Asia falling behind with their weapons tech.

[Glenn]

Here's another group trying to recreate Medieval European martial arts.
http://www.aemma.org/
Academy of European Martial Arts located in Toronto Canada. States that its mission is to "resurrect the combat skills, philosophies, and principles of an accomplished European Medieval martial artist".

It says they provide training in grappling, daggers, swords, poleaxes, and spears. Sounds like fun!

From the "Visitor's start here..." page (my emphasis added):

Why bother learning historical European martial arts?
Martial arts is not the sole domain of the Eastern cultures. Where ever there was war, battles and fighting, martial arts techniques were developed to enhance the skill and efficiency of fighters. Western/European cultures also developed sophisticated fighting techniques both with and without weapons. Learning these skills will enable the you to develop advanced self-defense skills such as being able to defend yourself against knife attacks, or even defend against being struck with a baseball bat! The techniques developed by the historical masters worked very well 500 years ago as they do today.

Clearly they are marketing themselves as competing against the neighborhood dojo.

[Guest]

hmmm I always wanted to become skilled with the catapult....I wonder if they are legal in Canada? A tow behind model would be handy . .