The dim streetlights hardly cast any light but what they did showed shadowy figures. Clearly an altercation had taken place. The dark stains of blood formed small pools here and there and larger ones in a few places.
Two, three, no maybe four bodies were prone on the ground but struggling to rise.
The fight had been brutal, fast yet seemed to drag out far longer than expected.
But it was over and those who were beaten and tired could now lick their wounds and heal.
But then… a figure emerged from the shadows. Only watching previously. Not wanting to get involved sooner.
But now thinking everyone was tired and beaten he decided to emerge and enter the fray.
Little did he know the fighting spirit of those he was about to encounter.
Far from done. Always ready…
The image above is how I see this “late” entry into the fray rather than when it was all taking place on the weekend. Admittedly not a flattering opinion but then it is just my perception which some feel is too sensitive.
Wow I am sensitive, haven’t been called that much.
Bill, the statement was made that the original post was of a far less barbed version. I had not seen the original post.
Because you decided stand back from the fray it allowed that statement to stand uncontested and therefore stood as fact. Very odd to try now to step in after the fight is over and plead your case.
You are indeed that forum’s moderator and can choose to delete whatever you wish. I can comment on whatever I wish. If you chose to stand back from a fray then accept what comes.
You asked what I would have done.
Personally I would have left the post and dealt with it (if it were my forum.) That way there would be no misunderstandings of what has taken place. This is why I am against deleting posts or trying to rewrite history by changing them.
Laird felt you had crossed the line by attacking Van’s ethics and character so he jumped over the line with both feet.
On my forum, I would have dealt with the two issues: What I had said, and how the person chose to bring it to my attention.
Instead you chose to take an action with (as you stated) a known outcome. So everything happened as expected.
As I said that was your forum and you could chose to handle it in any fashion you wish and you knew what the outcome would be.
Me, I like to stand my ground and slug it out rather than stepping back and letting others fight it out only to come in later.
I would have looked at what I said and either stood by it or apologized.
If I thought the person approached it wrong (regardless of if I had been wrong) I would have dropped them (figuratively speaking).
So, Bill it is now somewhat immaterial to me how the original post was (that scrap is over). I would have previously (and do now) accepted your reply that the two were identical as fact (without needing to see a copy.)
In my opinion you should have left it and blasted Laird with both barrels for his approach if you didn’t like it.
In my opinion you should have also apologised for attacking Van’s character.
You say you were just debating.
And here I thought we were in discussions to improve learning rather than “win.”
You should know here and now that if you state that I have done something unethical, deceitful, and fraudulent and basically an out and out lie, then please be advised that it will be my perception that you have called me unethical, deceitful, a fraud and a liar. (And this interpretation also comes from a former debating champion with a degree in Communications and Professional Writing.)
So this remains my perception of how you have treated Van.
But as you say it that is your forum and you handle things differently. That is, as I have said before, your prerogative.
You also state I should not carry old baggage into these frays.
I see it as recognizing and pointing out a pattern of behaviour. I see a progression in some of your discussions: discuss and exchange, debate and bait, and then when things get dicey, condescension, then an attempt to discredit the other person, and finally insults. This has been my observations over the years. Doesn’t happen all the time but I see it happens. IMNSHO
You have asked where things got off track between you and me. Frankly you have posted this before and it shocks me.
When did we get off track?
When you started insulting my school, my students and myself.
What other outcome could you possibly imagine?
Did you think these insults would make us the best of friends?
Did you think I would ignore the insults?
Perhaps others can turn a blind eye to the insults but I will never do so.
Perhaps some write your personal insults off (as George has posted) to Bill writing too much and too fast to know how what he is saying will be taken.
Perhaps some write your personal insults off (as George has posted) to Bill just letting his pompous side show again.
Perhaps they choose to over look your personal insults but I do not.
The baggage you refer to is not all that old because it seems to get renewed every time we try and discuss anything. (It just happened very recently in fact on my forum.)
Why did we get off track?
Your personal insults that I chose not to ignore.
This may be why I am more perceptive (or some might say sensitive
) of when it happens than others are.
Bill, insulting a person, their school or their students is not the tactic you use on someone you respect no matter how many times you say you do.
"What you do thunders above your head so loudly, I cannot hear the words you speak." Ralph Waldo Emerson
I look to see what is done not just what is just said.
And apologizes become meaningless when the behaviour is repeated.
We will never approach things the same way. I would not sit back and let others argue then try to join in after the mess has taken place.
You will find me right there in the middle shoulder to shoulder with those I care about protecting the good name of a person I respect greatly.
For those who disagree with me please know you have every right to your opinion and perceptions and most certainly every right to post and tell me what you think.
For those who consider themselves as much a friend of Bill’s as I consider myself Van’s there is nothing wrong with standing by him and saying your piece. That’s what loyal friends do. I take no offence to that.
I considered this fray over and done but if more clarification of where I stand is required please post your questions or comments.
John you are now the moderator and can take this forum whatever direction you please. However, as Laird said this forum has previously be used to take “hot” threads off the other forums so we could be more "forthright" in how we state things.
If this is no longer the case then there is no need to remove hot threads from the other forums to here.
Again, you are the forum moderator and it is entirely up to you as to what is now going to take place here. I personally have always enjoyed your posts.
I have attempted to post my response in a less confrontational manner in respect of your wishes but some times the honest truth is blunt and that can appear confrontational to some.