Fuzhou Suparinpei

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:36 pm

John

Thanks for your extensive research.

I am aware of one full (but yet unpublished) English translation of the Kyohon and at least one in progress. I'm curious - what source did you use for the translations you used? That thing is a bear to translate. I could only do short pieces at a time when my Japanese was at its best.

By the way, there is a hidden, unconsummated cobra technique in Seisan - associated with the front rising elbow thrust. It's one of my favorite Uechi pointy techniques. I love poking holes in things with it. I also found that Gushi Sensei himself is fond of it.

- Bill

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:34 am

The source is Alan Dollar's student David W. Smith which came to me through the "Strong Fist Group." This is a man's labor of love, but textually it's rough ... spelling, typing, grammar need standardized and edited. The quality of the translation varies with the writing skill of the contributor, and in this case the article I quoted is in modern Japanese and pretty straightforward. Downloaded and printed out without the photos its 668 8.5x11 sheets. Challenges abound but it's an information packed work with many pages of revelations.

Seizan Breyette's wife Sumako has a translation in progress which will be a first rate job. She's a U.N. Translator and they have sources expert in the Hogan dialect as well as in the antiquated Chinese kanji characters to consult for authentication. The knowledgable karate resources they have available are superior as well.

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:16 am

Bill and John, what is a cobra technique? I googled it and only came up with a very murky verbal description of a supposed example, which involved a bent arm knuckle strike that rakes across the temple on impact.

Does "cobra" refer to a certain fist, a style, a method of striking mechanics, or all of that and more?

Is it a subset of some form of snake?

The aspects of snake I've been exposed to are two-finger strike and flat hand (sort of a nukite), for striking and applying torque.

Thank you.

fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:45 am

Taking the verbal description I found along with John's reference to it being disguised as a crane technique, and Bill's reference to the forward elbow strike, the image that comes to mind is of a closed fist bent arm snapping type strike the wrist rolling horizontally, the fist going from sideways to forward and back.

Is this even close?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:26 pm

I have some pictures of Gushi I took recently. I'll see if some of them look good. If so, I'll post them either here, or provide a link for where I will post them.

I will admit that I personally have no historical basis for calling these techniques "cobra strikes." However the visual image and the way you execute shouts of the animal metaphor. If not cobra, then perhaps the mythical dragon. Consequently I use the expression in teaching all the time.

- Bill

jkolb · Post by **jkolb** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:13 am

Bill,

Did your source for Suparempei say if they practiced the other three kata there as well or if they had been modified like Suparempei?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:06 pm

jkolb wrote: Bill,

Did your source for Suparempei say if they practiced the other three kata there as well or if they had been modified like Suparempei?

Nobody to date has been able to find Chinese in Fuzhou who practice The Big ThreeTM. So that answers your question.

Simon Lailey's research led him to believe that the ninety-something gentleman who was running the group was the nephew of Shushiwa. And the name of the form - which got him excited when he heard of it - was yi bai lin ba bu (one hundred eight steps). That's their way of saying suparinpei.

Simon knew Goju, and didn't know if what he found was significant. He came back and showed George Mattson. George taped him, and "ordered" me to learn the form from tape.

Then I got the honor of meeting Simon, which allowed me to get a better view of the material than what I picked up just from a tape where he didn't do the form the same way two times in a row. (It's long, and he was goofing up. It happens...)

Good question, and I'm sorry my responses can't directly address them. But the fact that you ask them makes me believe you got one of the more important messages from the Fuzhou Suparinpei experience.

- Bill

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:35 pm

On Lailey's tape, he also demonstrates a form called "the tiger comes down the mountain" (or something to that effect - it actually reminds me of the Hung Gar "Taming the Tiger" form), which he says is a version of Sanseiryu. And we know that there are Chinese styles that train in Sam Chien (sanchin). So while no one has been found doing the exact same form sequences as the Uechi big 3, they do have forms with the the same names...for what that's worth, given many completely different forms will have the same name.

In one of Mark Bishop's book Okinawan Karate, he says that Shinko Matayoshi "travelled to Shanghai where he learned...a form of Shaolin Temple boxing known as Kingai-noon that is considered to be a sister style of Kanbun Uechi's Pangai-noon, as they both have the same Sesan kata and differ in name only by the first Chinese character". This was in the late 1920s, early 1930s, about 20 years after Kanbun left China. The name similarity may or may not be important, but I am curious about the Seisan link.

However I wouldn't necessarily expect to find anyone in China doing the exact same kata sequences we do. Others have mentioned that when Uechi Ryu has been demonstrated in China in the 1960s and 1980s that it was described by the Chinese as a frozen piece of Chinese martial arts history, continued to the present relatively unchanged while the Chinese arts it originated from have changed.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:53 pm

The Kingai system is thought by some to be the antecedent to modern Goju Ryu (accourding to George's Uechiryu Karatedo). That would make sense, since the first third of each of their Seisan katas are very similar.

- Bill

iwah · Post by **iwah** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:39 am

This technique was used by Kanbun Uechi but replaced by the crane break strike. It is still used in the Kojo family style of karate (perhaps Okinawa's oldest style). The hand is cupped with fingers straight like the downward beak strike in sanseryu. The middle finger crosses over the ring finger locking the proximal joint , then the index finger lays on top of the ring finger next to the middle finger thus locking the distal joint. The thumb finger pad presses on the side and bottom of the distal joint of the ring finger. Now, the ring finger is hard to bend and the tip of it can be used to strike soft tissue areas, often in the kojo system just behind the clavicle where the brachial plexus and clavicular artery are located. I have a picture but cannot load it from my computer.

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fivedragons · Post by **fivedragons** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:29 am

Wow, thanks. Totally different from what I was imagining.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:37 pm

I was taught that as a Tomoyose variant in the early 1970s via Rad Smith.

For the specific application you speak of (around the bracheal plexus), I prefer holding the hands differently. Pointed weapons also work there. Everyone has what works for them.

Probabably just as important as how you hold the hand (if not moreso) is how you use your body.

- Bill

Fuzhou Suparinpei

Source of KYHON Translation

Cobra Strike